ESPN's Top 74 NBA players of all-time

[Alsacs]

Would people rather have Robert Horry's career or Charles Barkley's career?

Horry made 53 million in career earnings. Won 7 NBA titles, was a role player.

Charles Barkley made 41 million in career earnings. Won 2 gold medals was part of the Dream Team the greatest team of alltime, 0 NBA titles, was a first ballot HOFer and is a top 30 player alltime.

 

[sufandu]

well at least Robert Horry isn't on this list.

That's who I thought of when I saw Ginobli.

 

[sufandu]

Would people rather have Robert Horry's career or Charles Barkley's career?

Horry made 53 million in career earnings. Won 7 NBA titles, was a role player.

Charles Barkley made 41 million in career earnings. Won 2 gold medals was part of the Dream Team the greatest team of alltime, 0 NBA titles, was a first ballot HOFer and is a top 30 player alltime.

Certainly everyone would like to have more money, but that's mostly a function of slightly different eras. All in all, I'd rather have Barkley's. He can know he was one of the best players in the league for a long time, and in the midst of playing he knew he was the best player on the floor many nights.

 

[DeGrozz]

Would people rather have Robert Horry's career or Charles Barkley's career?

Horry made 53 million in career earnings. Won 7 NBA titles, was a role player.

Charles Barkley made 41 million in career earnings. Won 2 gold medals was part of the Dream Team the greatest team of alltime, 0 NBA titles, was a first ballot HOFer and is a top 30 player alltime.

That's like asking if you'd rather be Keanu Reeves in The Matrix or some supporting actor in American Beauty.

 

[Shawn91111]

Would people rather have Robert Horry's career or Charles Barkley's career?

Horry made 53 million in career earnings. Won 7 NBA titles, was a role player.

Charles Barkley made 41 million in career earnings. Won 2 gold medals was part of the Dream Team the greatest team of alltime, 0 NBA titles, was a first ballot HOFer and is a top 30 player alltime.

Barkley made far more than Horry off the court, so he very well made more. Barkley's career all day.

 

[Alsacs]

Barkley made far more than Horry off the court, so he very well made more. Barkley's career all day.

I would take Barkley’s career as well.
It’s just an interesting debate.

Horry made enough money that the debate is interesting. Being a role player on 7 championship teams is atleast tempting over being an alltime top 30 player with zero titles.

 

[sufandu]

I would take Barkley’s career as well.
It’s just an interesting debate.

Horry made enough money that the debate is interesting. Being a role player on 7 championship teams is atleast tempting over being an alltime top 30 player with zero titles.

I think this is also a good comparison to show how championships are weighted far too heavily when ranking individual players in team sports. There are just too many variables to place it all on one player. Even Jordan's career illustrates it. He was the most dominant player in the league before winning and had to wait for his supporting cast to be put in place and developed. I hate it even more when comparing football players, where coaching is even more important and players have absolutely no control over half the game.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Horry shouldn't be on the top 74, but he should be in the HOF. Remember, it's the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF. Horry is the most accomplished and winningest role player in the history of the game's highest level. You can absolutely honor a player like that with inclusion in the HOF.

When you tell the story of basketball, Horry's name is there. It is.

On a similar note, no way Ginobili should be on the top 74, but he absolutely belongs in the HOF too. Great NBA and international career.

 

[Alsacs]

I think this is also a good comparison to show how championships are weighted far too heavily when ranking individual players in team sports. There are just too many variables to place it all on one player. Even Jordan's career illustrates it. He was the most dominant player in the league before winning and had to wait for his supporting cast to be put in place and developed. I hate it even more when comparing football players, where coaching is even more important and players have absolutely no control over half the game.

It boils down to preference would a person rather win and not be a hall of fame career but still a long valuable career and win a lot of
Champions or be an alltime great player that never wins a championship.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think this is also a good comparison to show how championships are weighted far too heavily when ranking individual players in team sports. There are just too many variables to place it all on one player. Even Jordan's career illustrates it. He was the most dominant player in the league before winning and had to wait for his supporting cast to be put in place and developed. I hate it even more when comparing football players, where coaching is even more important and players have absolutely no control over half the game.

I forget what the stat was, but there was some stat a few years back that Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and Greg Popovich had been involved with like 75% of the NBA championships over the previous 35 years - something like that.

Point being, if you were a superstar going up against those organizations, they were largely blocking the path to a title.

 

[OrangeDW]

Horry shouldn't be on the top 74, but he should be in the HOF. Remember, it's the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF. Horry is the most accomplished and winningest role player in the history of the game's highest level. You can absolutely honor a player like that with inclusion in the HOF.

When you tell the story of basketball, Horry's name is there. It is.

On a similar note, no way Ginobili should be on the top 74, but he absolutely belongs in the HOF too. Great NBA and international career.

So do you put other role players with similar resumes in? Does Kerr go in? Well, he’ll make it with his coaching resume anyway but if that didn’t exist would you put him in as a player?

How about Michael Cooper? Derek Fisher?

 

[Alsacs]

So do you put other role players with similar resumes in? Does Kerr go in? Well, he’ll make it with his coaching resume anyway but if that didn’t exist would you put him in as a player?

How about Michael Cooper? Derek Fisher?

Bill Simmons book says the hall of fame should be like a pyramid.

The elite of the elite should be up top and the bottom floors should be for comets like Penny, Grant Hill, Sleepy Floyd who flashed the pan and were elite for a short period of time. Along with comets should be Hall of fame role players and he mentioned the Lakers guys like Fisher, Cooper, Byron Scott Celtics guys like Jojo White, Danny Ainge, James Posey, and guys like Derek and Ron Harper, Steve Kerr and Horry.
Then the hall of fame should be 5 levels.

The bottom level guys who would be 74-60.
2nd level guys like Reggie Miller
3rd level guys like Dirk Nowtiski
4th level guys like Scottie Pippen
Then the top level level 5 the top 12 of all time.

It players would move down when they got passed in the future and the selection committee would elect you to your slot by how you got in voting wise.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So do you put other role players with similar resumes in? Does Kerr go in? Well, he’ll make it with his coaching resume anyway but if that didn’t exist would you put him in as a player?

How about Michael Cooper? Derek Fisher?

Didn't we have this conversation before? I swear we did. You asked me about Rod Strickland, I think.

Kerr will go in for the coaching with a side mention of his player accomplishments, as you mentioned, so it doesn't really matter.

No on Cooper. No on Fisher.

Horry just has such a unique career. 7 rings across three franchises? And he had clutch moments that got him those rings. There's no one comparable.

 

[OrangeDW]

Didn't we have this conversation before? I swear we did. You asked me about Rod Strickland, I think.

Kerr will go in for the coaching with a side mention of his player accomplishments, as you mentioned, so it doesn't really matter.

No on Cooper. No on Fisher.

Horry just has such a unique career. 7 rings across three franchises? And he had clutch moments that got him those rings. There's no one comparable.

LOL, I thought that as I was typing that post and was reminded of the Seinfeld scene in the finale where Jerry and George have the same conversation they had in the first episode and ask “haven’t we talked about this before?”

 

[sufandu]

It boils down to preference would a person rather win and not be a hall of fame career but still a long valuable career and win a lot of
Champions or be an alltime great player that never wins a championship.

I don't think it always boils down to preference. Do you think roll players that were fortunate enough to play with Jordan or Shaq chose to be less talented than Barkley or Ewing? We're in a unique era now where some players basically say, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

 

[sufandu]

Horry shouldn't be on the top 74, but he should be in the HOF. Remember, it's the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF. Horry is the most accomplished and winningest role player in the history of the game's highest level. You can absolutely honor a player like that with inclusion in the HOF.

When you tell the story of basketball, Horry's name is there. It is.

On a similar note, no way Ginobili should be on the top 74, but he absolutely belongs in the HOF too. Great NBA and international career.

Nah. Playing with all time greats should not qualify you for the HOF. His playoff reputation is over blown because some of his shots were timely. If it was the hall of very good, he'd be deserving. Being fortunate enough to play with Olajuwan, Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan doesn't make you a HOFer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Nah. Playing with all time greats should not qualify you for the HOF. His playoff reputation is over blown because some of his shots were timely. If it was the hall of very good, he'd be deserving. Being fortunate enough to play with Olajuwan, Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan doesn't make you a HOFer.

See, you're talking about it as if it's the NBA Hall of Fame. It's not.

 

[sufandu]

See, you're talking about it as if it's the NBA Hall of Fame. It's not.

No I'm not. It's the basketball HOF, meaning you should have some sort of elite reputation to get in, and it should be consistent over a number of seasons and sustained throughout those seasons. He was not an elite college player, NBA player, or coach at any level. He WAS a very good role player that got to play with a number of the most elite HOF players in league history and for HOF coaches. He had some timely moments that that he will always be remembered for. It isn't the Basketball Moments Hall of Fame.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

No I'm not. It's the basketball HOF, meaning you should have some sort of elite reputation to get in, and it should be consistent over a number of seasons and sustained throughout those seasons. He was not an elite college player, NBA player, or coach at any level. He WAS a very good role player that got to play with a number of the most elite HOF players in league history and for HOF coaches. He had some timely moments that that he will always be remembered for. It isn't the Basketball Moments Hall of Fame.

He's got 7 rings!!! From three different franchises!!! He's exceptional, and your opinion is a bad one!!!

 

[sufandu]

He's got 7 rings!!! From three different franchises!!! He's exceptional, and your opinion is a bad one!!!

No. He was on 7 championship teams. He averaged 7 ppg, 4 rpg, and 2 apg on 42% shooting, 34% from three, for his career and was a good defender not great defender. He averaged in the double figures in the playoffs on only two of those championship teams and his career playoff averages are really close to his overall career averages. His timely shooting has been greatly exaggerated to make it seem like he became some sort of killer in the playoffs. It just wasn't the case. With his numbers, he needs to have been some sort of Rodman like defender to be a HOFer. My opinion is logical and not based on ESPN hype.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

That's like asking if you'd rather be Keanu Reeves in The Matrix or some supporting actor in American Beauty.

that creepy neighbor kid with the camera...as an example...

 

[Alsacs]

No. He was on 7 championship teams. He averaged 7 ppg, 4 rpg, and 2 apg on 42% shooting, 34% from three, for his career and was a good defender not great defender. He averaged in the double figures in the playoffs on only two of those championship teams and his career playoff averages are really close to his overall career averages. His timely shooting has been greatly exaggerated to make it seem like he became some sort of killer in the playoffs. It just wasn't the case. With his numbers, he needs to have been some sort of Rodman like defender to be a HOFer. My opinion is logical and not based on ESPN hype.

Without even looking hard I know Horry won 3 games that helped his team eventually win a championship. I remember these guys off my memory.
Game 1 is the 1995 WCF in San Antonio he hit a game winner for the Rockets and helped them get ahead of the Spurs and win that upset.
He took over game 5 of the 2005 FInals in Detroit for San Antonio and won that game when the series was tied 2-2 and they won in 7 and in 2002 he hit a buzzer beater in game 4 of the WCF against the Kings.
I don’t know if he belongs on the HOF but Robert Horry was insanely clutch in the playoffs and singlehandily won games that swung titles and he was part of 7 championship teams even if he wasn’t one of the top players on those teams.

Rockets/Spurs/Lakers don’t win all their championships if they didn’t have him.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

No. He was on 7 championship teams. He averaged 7 ppg, 4 rpg, and 2 apg on 42% shooting, 34% from three, for his career and was a good defender not great defender. He averaged in the double figures in the playoffs on only two of those championship teams and his career playoff averages are really close to his overall career averages. His timely shooting has been greatly exaggerated to make it seem like he became some sort of killer in the playoffs. It just wasn't the case. With his numbers, he needs to have been some sort of Rodman like defender to be a HOFer. My opinion is logical and not based on ESPN hype.

"He was on 7 championship teams" makes it sound like he was just there for the ride. Which, he wasn't, but in addition to that, that's a whole lot of coincidence.

He's an outlier. One way the HOF rewards people is by honoring outliers that exhibit exceptional talent. Horry exhibited exceptional results. No one outside of the earlier days of the NBA's Celtics core has had the results Horry had. It's a contribution to the game case. Horry's contribution was to highlight the most exemplary role player possible.

This is a great article I found -

 

[Melancer46]

No Bing? Giannis hasn't played long enough to make the list

Giannis can certainly be lower on the list, but he absolutely has to be on the list somewhere. In about a month, he'll be one of like 13 players ever to win multiple MVPs and has a good chance to become one of like 5 players all-time to win an MVP and DPOY.

 

[Knicks411]

Giannis can certainly be lower on the list, but he absolutely has to be on the list somewhere. In about a month, he'll be one of like 13 players ever to win multiple MVPs and has a good chance to become one of like 5 players all-time to win an MVP and DPOY.

Very much unrelated, but I can't believe Steve Nash won multiple MVPs