Everyone forgets how young we are

[two3zone]

But they are rated higher than this years freshmen and they will have a supporting cast of players with some experience Bazley looks totally ready and Carey appears composed and ready for the challenge. Those two are born leaders

I was informed constantly that rankings don't matter. Maybe they only matter when we get highly ranked guys.

 

[GooseMutt]

ABsolutely spot on. Young and inexperienced. I’ve been trying to remind myself of that all season after these heartbreaking losses. The thing is, you see the talent and athleticism and heart and I just hoped they’d progress enough to squeeze out enough wins and make the NCAA tourney. I thought we could maybe get to 9-9 or 10-8. But such a heavy lift after losing TT. We’ve been close but just haven’t been able to pull out some of these wins that were there for the taking, like UNC, NC State, Notre Dame, Florida State, Wake and Bonaventure. Even if they win half of those, they’re an NCAA tourney worthy team. Next year we should win most of those and be much improved. I still have hope that Marek or PC or Sid will give us just enough offensive support against Clemson and in the ACC tourney next week that we can squeak in to the NCAAs, but I know it’s a long shot, especially with all the injuries.

Well stated. I believe all the headwinds we have experienced from recruits to sanctions have dissipated. It’s on next year!

 

[GooseMutt]

I was informed constantly that rankings don't matter. Maybe they only matter when we get highly ranked guys.

Not so much the rankings but much more how they play. Players play. Mindset. Leaders lead. Leaders Want the ball at the end. That’s them . They have spunk. They have attitude. They have swag. Confidence goes far. I don’t want to appear a rah rah rah cheerleader but watching their films that’s my takeaway

 

[Sherman20]

If Chukwu isn't getting it 3 and a half years in even with that injury he probably will never get it or won't get it until his time is long past here.

Come on. He’s only played two years of college basketball. Last year doesn’t count. He was injured in game 3 or 4 but kept playing til game 7. We want him to be BMK 2.0 with maybe a little better offense. And I think he can get there—and more if he’s able to get a 6th year of eligibility.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Youth isn't the issue. It's talent and skill, mixed with a lack of options.

 

[djcon57]

Can't use "too young" in 2018.

Just doesn't fly in college basketball anymore where your team can flip in one year

 

[RF2044]

72 is in his 4th year
Frank in his 3rd
Battle in his 2nd
Moyer in his 2nd

On the younger side but shouldn't be an issue.

Prior to the season, I expressed concern on this forum about the team's inexperience. Consider:

• Our entire frontcout is comprised of 3 true freshman [Sidibe, Brissett, and Dolezaj], 1 redshirt freshman [Moyer] who'd never played at the collegiate level, and 1 player who hadn't played in two years after getting some token minutes at PC. Our entire frontcourt had zero starting experience, and 4 of the 5 had never played before at the collegiate level. Anybody who doesn't view that as "an issue" is burying their head in the sand.
• Howard had started some, but was completely unproven.
• It remained to be seen whether Battle would adjust to being the focal point of defensive attention.
• TT quit right before the start of the school year.

When you also factor in the team's only other returning starter [TT] quitting right before the season, Thorpe quitting in November, two contributors sustaining fairly significant injuries [Moyer, Sidibe] that have hobbled, and our only backcourt sub sustaining a season ending injury [Washington], it is pretty amazing that this team got to 18 wins, and counting.

I don't disagree that it is going to suck if / when we fail to make the NCAAs. But considering preseason prognostications, where many were groaning about not being able to get to .500, this hasn't been a bad coaching job.

The data you present above is a very skewed way to look at things and conclude that experience isn't "an issue."

 

[mayselc]

Bazley, Carey and Buddy have no experience but many are saying next year things will turn around because of them. I am confused.

Don't forget about the transfer Eli Hughes. Positive comments from practice and another shooter to bring in. we are going from 7 almost healthy scholarship players to 10 healthy scholarship players. And that's without Washington, who will probably redshirt next year.

 

[longislandcuse]

Not an excuse in CBB

 

[RF2044]

Not an excuse in CBB

I am so GD sick of people referring to reasons as "excuses."

No offense, but it is tiresome -- and indicative of a glaring lack of perspective.

 

[longislandcuse]

I am so GD sick of people referring to reasons as "excuses."

No offense, but it is tiresome -- and indicative of a lack of perspective.

This particular reason that we are not good would be an excuse, no?

It's annoying when Cal talks about how young UK is every year and it's really annoying when fans of a team with a Junior PG and Soph SG talk about it.

 

[two3zone]

I am so GD sick of people referring to reasons as "excuses."

No offense, but it is tiresome -- and indicative of a glaring lack of perspective.

It works both ways. There's literally an excuse for every reason we're bad and zero accountability because we coddle a 70+ year old man.

 

[RF2044]

This particular reason that we are not good would be an excuse, no? It can be overcome but is not.

It's annoying when Cal talks about how young UK is every year and it's really annoying when fans of a team with a Junior PG and Soph SG talk about it.

No, it isn't an "excuse." It is a fact.

Cal gets top 10 kids, 4 or 5 of whom go in the first round every single year. That talent base of the incoming frosh offsets inexperience. It isn't a very good comparison. Honestly.

 

[djcon57]

Dukes entire starting front court had NEVER PLAYED COLLEGE BASKETBALL before this season.

See how silly that sounds? It's not being young, it's talent. We don't have talent.

 

[longislandcuse]

No, it isn't an "excuse." It is a fact.

Cal gets top 10 kids, 4 or 5 of whom go in the first round every single year. That talent base of the incoming frosh offsets inexperience. It isn't a very good comparison. Honestly.

It's also a fact that we can't shoot, which then is used as an excuse by our coach as to why we can't do anything, even though the HC in CBB is responsible for recruiting said players who can't shoot.

We are young. Fact. To say that's why we struggled is an excuse because youth does not equate to struggling in CBB.

 

[Knicks411]

It's also a fact that we can't shoot, which then is used as an excuse by our coach as to why we can't do anything, even though the HC in CBB is responsible for recruiting said players who can't shoot.

We are young. Fact. To say that's why we struggled is an excuse because youth does not equate to struggling in CBB.

Youth doesn't necessarily, but unless you are Duke or Kentucky, it's probably a good indicator.

I don't see that as an excuse. That's part of the reason we aren't good. Along with not being able to shoot, etc. I don't think it means you handwave away the relative lack of success this year, if you want to put a lot of that on the coach, afterall, they're his players, that's fair.

 

[RF2044]

It's also a fact that we can't shoot, which then is used as an excuse by our coach as to why we can't do anything, even though the HC in CBB is responsible for recruiting said players who can't shoot.

We are young. Fact. To say that's why we struggled is an excuse because youth does not equate to struggling in CBB.

What does not being able to shoot have to do with being young? Has JB ever said that our players can't shoot because they are inexperienced? Has any poster? Then what does one have to do with the other?

You and others imply correlation to equate to causality. Again, it is not an "excuse" to say that we're young and inexperienced. It is a fact. It is not an excuse to point out that players like Dolezaj, Moyer, and others aren't as highly rated as the frosh playing at Arizona, Duke, and Kentucky. It's another fact. Bazley is a top 10 talent. I expect him to make a big contribution next year as a function of his capabilities and athletic ability, despite being inexperienced. That's an opinion.

See the difference?

 

[longislandcuse]

What does not being able to shoot have to do with being young? Has JB ever said that our players can't shoot because they are inexperienced? Has any poster? Then what does one have to do with the other?

You and others imply correlation to equate to causality. Again, it is not an "excuse" to say that we're young and inexperienced. It is a fact. It is not an excuse to point out that players like Dolezaj, Moyer, and others aren't as highly rated as the frosh playing at Arizona, Duke, and Kentucky. It's another fact. Bazley is a top 10 talent. I expect him to make a big contribution next year as a function of his capabilities and athletic ability, despite being inexperienced. That's an opinion.

See the difference?

I have a really hard time with anyone telling me a team with a Junior PG and Soph SG who play 40 minutes game in a youth dominated game like CBB is "young and inexperienced".

Our problem is talent and depth. Battle is probably gone. Frank and Oshae were both good and will get better. Everyone else is already recruited or being recruited over.

 

[Fly Rodder]

TT quit right before the start of the school year.

No he didn't.

 

[orangecuse]

What does not being able to shoot have to do with being young? Has JB ever said that our players can't shoot because they are inexperienced? Has any poster? Then what does one have to do with the other?

You and others imply correlation to equate to causality. Again, it is not an "excuse" to say that we're young and inexperienced. It is a fact. It is not an excuse to point out that players like Dolezaj, Moyer, and others aren't as highly rated as the frosh playing at Arizona, Duke, and Kentucky. It's another fact. Bazley is a top 10 talent. I expect him to make a big contribution next year as a function of his capabilities and athletic ability, despite being inexperienced. That's an opinion.

See the difference?

Wasn't Moyer a top 50-ish type recruit? Even if not and say top 100, how do we seem to consistently get guys over the years that can't shoot a wink at their positions or pass, catch? It's crazy that a top program like SU gets such a fair share of these guys. Moyer will be a junior (academically next year) he has practiced with the team for two years, etc. How does a guy at this level not be able to knock down 12-15 foot shots? What the heck has he been doing, practicing on? Next year will he be an experienced non-shooter capacity type/contributor?

 

[cusefan88]

Bazley slotting in at forward should be a massive upgrade on Moyer/Dolezaj. Hopefully a healthy Sidibe can turn Center into something useful on offense.

As far as guards go, Howard/Hughes/Carey/Buddy should mean nobody is playing 40 mins every game all season.

 

[Knicks411]

I have a really hard time with anyone telling me a team with a Junior PG and Soph SG who play 40 minutes game in a youth dominated game like CBB is "young and inexperienced".

Our problem is talent and depth. Battle is probably gone. Frank and Oshae were both good and will get better. Everyone else is already recruited or being recruited over.

Ken Pom weights the experience rating by the minutes played, even with that, we are one of the most inexperienced teams in the country.

Like I said, that doesn't excuse any success, or lack of success. But that doesn't make it any less true.

 

[RF2044]

No he didn't.

Yes, he did. The coaching staff didn't know what was going on until late August.

 

[RF2044]

I have a really hard time with anyone telling me a team with a Junior PG and Soph SG who play 40 minutes game in a youth dominated game like CBB is "young and inexperienced".

Our problem is talent and depth. Battle is probably gone. Frank and Oshae were both good and will get better. Everyone else is already recruited or being recruited over.

That's not what I said. I said that the frontcourt is comprised of 3 true frosh, 1 redshirt frosh who hadn't played a minute of college basketball, and 1 player who'd played some token minutes as a frosh and then sat for the better part of two years due to transfer / injury. Between them -- zero starts, across the entire group of frontcourt players.

It doesn't get much less experienced than that.

Agree 100% about depth. Your point about the backcourt isn't what I was saying - at all.

 

[RF2044]

Wasn't Moyer a top 50-ish type recruit? Even if not and say top 100, how do we seem to consistently get guys over the years that can't shoot a wink at their positions or pass, catch? It's crazy that a top program like SU gets such a fair share of these guys. Moyer will be a junior (academically next year) he has practiced with the team for two years, etc. How does a guy at this level not be able to knock down 12-15 foot shots? What the heck has he been doing, practicing on? Next year will he be an experienced non-shooter capacity type/contributor?

Have we ever not seen guys who come in as freshmen and have to adjust to college ball and not play that well, only to make massive strides as sophomores? You're right--Moyer WON'T be inexperienced next year. He'll have 20 or so games of starting experience under his belt, the experience of ups-and-downs throughout the course of the season, as well as some games where he had some solid success scoring. He'll then have the opportunity to be healthy this offseason, unlike last year, and concentrate on working on certain parts of his game to show more diversified / expanded capabilities next year.

If he comes back next season and is the same exact player, then you'll have a point. I'm guessing that he won't. And even so, he STILL might see a reduced role next year, due to Brissett / Bazley getting the bulk of PT at forward next year. Moyer's job is to be a quality reserve, and give the team better offensive production in limited minutes. That is well within the realm of possibility.