Expansion chatter...again

[shandeezy7]

I can see a scenario where FSU and Clemson weren't thrilled with the additions of Cuse and Pitt, and want to be in a conference with Texas and Oklahoma - a football conference. I bet the money is close.

Oh yeah, I could see that scenario too. The question is how likely are all of these scenarios that people are throwing out there?

 

[KaiserUEO]

So your point is that the current ACC is better than the current Big East? Brilliant.

FSU football is the most valuable commodity in the ACC. If you think losing it, along with another traditionally solid football program, wouldn't be a huge loss, you're delusional. And this isn't the first time there has been chatter about FSU exploring other options. At minimum, conversations are happening, and Swofford has work to do.

yeah but sparky you said the ACC would then be the bigeast.

no way.

certainly they are the 2 alpha dogs when it comes to football, but Syracuse is still in a better position.

fla st and clemson would be foolish to leave the ACC, even for the SEC. but i suppose if the $$ is ridiculous they would have to go.

realignment can continue for all i care. my new rooting interest is for storz, and to a lesser degree rutgers, to be left in the bigeast.

 

[Scotch]

yeah but sparky you said the ACC would then be the bigeast.

no way.

certainly they are the 2 alpha dogs when it comes to football, but Syracuse is still in a better position.

fla st and clemson would be foolish to leave the ACC, even for the SEC. but i suppose if the $$ is ridiculous they would have to go.

realignment can continue for all i care. my new rooting interest is for storz, and to a lesser degree rutgers, to be left in the bigeast.

I said it would be the old big east - sick basketball, leaning heavily on Miami and VaTech in football. And not on par with the other power conferences in the only sport that matters.

We'd obviously in better position than the current cluster that is the new BE, but that's not really saying anything. My rooting interest is as follows:

1) FSU stays
2) ND somehow comes on board
3) Rutgirls and UConn wither on the BE vine and die

 

[Chip]

I'm still laughing and will continue to do so, even if they leave. They will have left a league of guarantees and move into a league of promises that I can't imagine will ever be fulfilled. Not when a couple oversized mouths demand to be fed first.

If they stop and think about it long enough, this will never happen.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I'm still laughing and will continue to do so, even if they leave. They will have left a league of guarantees and move into a league of promises that I can't imagine will ever be fulfilled. Not when a couple oversized mouths demand to be fed first.

If they stop and think about it long enough, this will never happen.

it really makes no sense. if the move to the '4 team plus 1' come to fruition, and it will......fla st has to realize how beneficial being in the ACC would be to them.

 

[Rocco]

So your point is that the current ACC is better than the current Big East? Brilliant.

FSU football is the most valuable commodity in the ACC. If you think losing it, along with another traditionally solid football program, wouldn't be a huge loss, you're delusional. And this isn't the first time there has been chatter about FSU exploring other options. At minimum, conversations are happening, and Swofford has work to do.

Absolutely losing FSU and Clemson would be huge to the ACC. What I am saying is even if they leave, SU is still soooo much better off than sticking around in the BE.

The ACC (less FSU & Clem) still way > the new BE.

 

[rrlbees]

Some of you are absolutely delusional. No way! Never! 0% chance! Swaim is just causing talk! Funny how this topic was discussed some in Pittsburgh with people that probably know but while teams weren't named, they said some ACC teams have been talking to the B12 and the B10. Nobody has said it will happen, only that there are talks and people aren't laughing it off. But people here seem to know more. Why would Swaim just outright lie?

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[omniorange]

This might be bias/arrogance on my part, but I just cannot see this happening. On the FSU and Clemson boards the fans are at best 70-30 against this with most of the support coming from UT and WV fans. As a recent Tech grad, I can say confidently that any rumors that b12 fans have been spreading about us also being interested are completely and totally false. We have no desire to be in a conference where we would be the top academic institution with a huge drop after No. 2.

I'll stand be the fact that all these rumors are coming from blogs out of WV and Texas, and that they represent pipe dreams for those schools, not real scenarios.

Also why would ESPN negotiate a contract that would undermine the ACC as has been rumored. ESPN has invested billions in the ACC and the ACC is delivering the No. 3 football ratings and No. 2 basketball ratings. The latter will go up with the additions and the former is in a rough time. Essentially ESPN would shorting the product it owns in entirty for a product it owns 40 percent of. Could someone explain to me why a company would do that?

Agreed. While I believe ESPN lost their edge in terms of sports reporting long ago, one thing you can say about them is that on the business side of sports they are unmatched. With the SEC's best Saturday afternoon games going to CBS until 2025, ABC/ESPN needs a strong ACC to air in southern states in the 3:30 time slot. They, in essence, are already overpaying for the current Big 12 product to have teams from the states of Texas and Oklahoma available to air to the southwestern states at the 3:30 time slot. They will do the same to ensure that the states of Florida and Georgia and to a lesser extent North Carolina and Virginia have meaningful games to air at the Saturday 3:30 slot as well.

All bets could be off by 2025, if ESPN were to get the SEC exclusively. But by that time, maybe the pendulum has swung away from the SEC?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

Some of you are absolutely delusional. No way! Never! 0% chance! Swaim is just causing talk! Funny how this topic was discussed some in Pittsburgh with people that probably know but while teams weren't named, they said some ACC teams have been talking to the B12 and the B10. Nobody has said it will happen, only that there are talks and people aren't laughing it off. But people here seem to know more. Why would Swaim just outright lie?

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My belief is that there is actual talk about this. It might even be fueled by the ACC (though not the originator of the rumors) in the hopes that it gives ESPN reason to overpay for the ACC product in the same way ESPN is way overpaying for the Big 12 product.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[KaiserUEO]

Some of you are absolutely delusional. No way! Never! 0% chance! Swaim is just causing talk! Funny how this topic was discussed some in Pittsburgh with people that probably know but while teams weren't named, they said some ACC teams have been talking to the B12 and the B10. Nobody has said it will happen, only that there are talks and people aren't laughing it off. But people here seem to know more. Why would Swaim just outright lie?

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who says hes lying??

its in the best interest of every school to explore every possiblity to make more $$ and put Ws on the board.

they would have to examine the pros/cons of going.

after doing so, failing gobs of ridiculous amounts of $$

no way in hell they go.

 

[All4SU]

FSU and Clemson to the SEC won't happen, Florida blocks FSU and USC blocks Clemson. The Big Twelve is their only way out. They weren't happy with the addition of Pitt and Cuse to the football lineup (nor would they have been happy with UConn or Rutgers obviously) and conference re-alignment is still all about football. This is also their chance to get away from Wake, Duke and BC. For FSU and Clemson the move makes sense. Their football programs and fan bases have little in common with the "northern" schools.

Disagree with some of this. Entirely possible that Florida and USC would block Clemson and FSU. But regarding the ACC schools, it's not just about football -- even though that's the cash cow. It's also about increasing exposure in markets. For FSU and Clemson to have ongoing exposure in PA and NY, expands their reach for enrollment too. It's why Miami loves exposure in the northeast. A large percentage of their students come from the NE. While FSU and Clemson may not have a great deal of regard for Wake, Duke, BC football -- or any NE football for that matter. They definitely want the exposure.

 

[All4SU]

My belief is that there is actual talk about this. It might even be fueled by the ACC (though not the originator of the rumors) in the hopes that it gives ESPN reason to overpay for the ACC product in the same way ESPN is way overpaying for the Big 12 product.

Cheers,
Neil

Hmmmm...an interesting conspiracy theory there.

 

[All4SU]

The B12 will always have an element of instability as long as Texas is part of the formula.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Some of you are absolutely delusional. No way! Never! 0% chance! Swaim is just causing talk! Funny how this topic was discussed some in Pittsburgh with people that probably know but while teams weren't named, they said some ACC teams have been talking to the B12 and the B10. Nobody has said it will happen, only that there are talks and people aren't laughing it off. But people here seem to know more. Why would Swaim just outright lie?

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Ok. What plausible scenario could you see Clemson and FSU leave for the Big XII? Everyone talks to everyone, but the guy did claim big moves may happen in June.


For the record, I could see a MD and others look to the B10.

 

[sufan]

BigTime Sports ‏ @GSwaim

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Few talking about #FSU, #Clemson, #CardNation, #BYU today, but consensus from coaches & admins at #FinalFour is major moves coming in June.


BigTime Sports ‏ @GSwaim

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Many head & assistant basketball coaches in the #ACC & #Big12 have heard about the #FSU & #Clemson talks with B12...and no one is laughing.

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1) "Few talking";
"Many head & assistant basketball coaches in the #ACC & #Big12 have heard about the #FSU & #Clemson talks with B12...and no one is laughing."


Which means exactly what? Seems like totally unconfirmed rehash?


2) Are FSU and Clemson aware the Big 12 also include ISU, U of Kansas, KSU, OSU, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU and WVU?


3) The ACC and SEC are renegotiating their contracts with ESPN based on their recent additions. Until the numbers are provided, there is little to base any opinion on.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Since the NJ.com Rutgers board is now reporting that Tim Pernetti has been sighted in an AIRPORT talking [possibly] amiably with Swofford...I now believe all this expansion talk MUST be true! Batten down the hatches boys. College football is about to be turned upside down once again.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Kaiser basically hits the nail on the head I get calls 2-3 times a year for some broker who wants to buy my business I have no interest in selling but I always listen in case they are willing to pay 3 times what I know it's worth, never hurts to listen and I don't laugh either

 

[sufan]

----------------------


1) "Few talking";
"Many head & assistant basketball coaches in the #ACC & #Big12 have heard about the #FSU & #Clemson talks with B12...and no one is laughing."


Which means exactly what? Seems like totally unconfirmed rehash?


2) Are FSU and Clemson aware the Big 12 also include ISU, U of Kansas, KSU, OSU, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU and WVU?


3) The ACC and SEC are renegotiating their contracts with ESPN based on their recent additions. Until the numbers are provided, there is little to base any opinion on.

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So here's the possible options based on GS latest "reporting".

1) In June, FSU and Clemson join the Big 12.

2) 2 days later, Miami and GT join the Big 12.

3) 2 days later, VT and NCSU join the SEC.

4) That evening, UNC, Duke, UVA and MD join the Big 10.

5) Reports circulate that SU, BC, Wake and Pitt are talking with the UConn and RU to form a new all sports conference.

6) ND announces it is reconsidering its conference options.

7) The Big East BB only schools are reported to be talking about separating from the Big East football schools.

8) In a shocking development, ND announces it is joining the enlarged Big 10.
School number 18 is SU.

At this point, the vision gets cloudy.

 

[rrlbees]

who says hes lying??

Well someone said he was just trying to make something up to talk about on his radio shoe. Funny how he wasn't in Pittsburgh to do just that when the same things were being discussed. Again, maybe nothing comes of any of this. But some people seem to think everytime a media person says something its for ulterior motives and not what they actually heard. And then there is the crowd that sits at their computer and yet knows more than people, like the media, who are actually talking to coaches and/or AD's. Its almost comical.

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[IthacaMatt]

So your point is that the current ACC is better than the current Big East? Brilliant.

FSU football is the most valuable commodity in the ACC. If you think losing it, along with another traditionally solid football program, wouldn't be a huge loss, you're delusional. And this isn't the first time there has been chatter about FSU exploring other options. At minimum, conversations are happening, and Swofford has work to do.

I think if Miami was back to where they used to be, they are an equal draw with FSU. Clemson is a nice football school, but not an elite program.

Just look at this rationally. The Big 12 is really a 2 school conference for football. If FSU thinks that Pitt and SU weaken the ACC football product, well, what do you think of Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State ? The only league that FSU wants to join is the SEC. That's it. Do you think that the Big 12 is itching for Clemson by itself ?

 

[omniorange]

I think if Miami was back to where they used to be, they are an equal draw with FSU. Clemson is a nice football school, but not an elite program.

Just look at this rationally. The Big 12 is really a 2 school conference for football. If FSU thinks that Pitt and SU weaken the ACC football product, well, what do you think of Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State ? The only league that FSU wants to join is the SEC. That's it. Do you think that the Big 12 is itching for Clemson by itself ?

Using the Kings, Barons, and Knights model from the old Stewart Mandel article:

FSU and Miami are the ACC's Kings; Oklahoma and Texas are the Big 12's Kings

VT, Clemson, and Georgia Tech are the ACC's Barons; WVU is the Big 12's only Baron although TCU might be considered one if they have anywhere near the same success in the Big 12 that they had recently in the MWC.

Pitt and SU are former Barons that now join the rest of the ACC's Knights. One or both could quickly be elevated back up to Baron status as a result of joining (and doing well in) a higher profile league like the ACC.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[All4SU]

Using the Kings, Barons, and Knights model from the old Stewart Mandel article:

FSU and Miami are the ACC's Kings; Oklahoma and Texas are the Big 12's Kings

VT, Clemson, and Georgia Tech are the ACC's Barons; WVU is the Big 12's only Baron although TCU might be considered one if they have anywhere near the same success in the Big 12 that they had recently in the MWC.

Pitt and SU are former Barons that now join the rest of the ACC's Knights. One or both could quickly be elevated back up to Baron status as a result of joining (and doing well in) a higher profile league like the ACC.

Cheers,
Neil

Who are the peons?

 

[omniorange]

Who are the peons?

It's actually peasants, and I've learned to never answer that question. :rolling:

Cheers,
Neil

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Well someone said he was just trying to make something up to talk about on his radio shoe. Funny how he wasn't in Pittsburgh to do just that when the same things were being discussed. Again, maybe nothing comes of any of this. But some people seem to think everytime a media person says something its for ulterior motives and not what they actually heard. And then there is the crowd that sits at their computer and yet knows more than people, like the media, who are actually talking to coaches and/or AD's. Its almost comical.

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I mentioned the radio show. While I may be wrong, it is a huge stretch to paint us with that wide of a brush for being skeptical of a cryptic twitter post.

 

[SmilinBob]

FSU and to a lesser extent Clemson do not like having the Carolina's and many in Tallahassee despise them. My thinking is they both consider themselves football schools and would rather be richer being the Longhorns grunt than being one for Carolina. If the money really does come out better for them leaving, I believe they will be gone as it's been a combo of things that have bugged those two schools and this time they're ready to go. They would have been far happier if the ACC added WV instead of Pitt, especially after the Wv/Clemson game.