Explain Fran Brown's Defense

[Niastri]

I've heard a lot about the expected defensive scheme Brown and Robinson are bringing in.

It's expected to be a 4-2-5. I guess this means

DE-DT-DT-DE
LB-LB
Nickelback/Star/Rover
CB-SS-FS-CB

I'm a bit confused about the terminology of the front 4.

Why then the concern in the recruiting board about getting a nose guard when we've got a few defensive tackles coming in? You'd think we would be set with the four or five guys we're getting visits from at the DT spot. Why did we just recruit a ton of really big defensive tackles if they aren't enough?

Can somebody explain the expected defense a bit for me?

 

[sufandu]

I think most have said we're not sticking with the 3-3-5. The expectation is that we're moving to a 4-2-5.

 

[Niastri]

I think most have said we're not sticking with the 3-3-5. The expectation is that we're moving to a 4-2-5.

Yeah, I realized my mistake quickly, but still am not clear on the roles differential between tackle and nose guard in the context of the 4-2-5.

 

[sufandu]

Yeah, I realized my mistake quickly, but still am not clear on the roles differential between tackle and nose guard in the context of the 4-2-5.

That's above my head. I know some of the coaches on here have discussed it in other threads, but I can't remember which.

 

[tep624]

Yeah, I realized my mistake quickly, but still am not clear on the roles differential between tackle and nose guard in the context of the 4-2-5.

The NT is usually a 6’2-6’4 330 poundish wide space eater, and the DT’s are usually 6’5 290 ish disruptive athlete types.

But someone like money3189 can explain the scheme far better than I can.

 

[SWC75]

I prefer a 4-4-4. But that's just me.

 

[JKinPhilly]

I’m not an x and o guy, but I did find this interesting. 4-2-5

 

[blizz]

Simplest explanation I can give is 4 down fronts are usually built around the idea of punching holes in the middle of the line. The idea is that you cut the field in half and focus on pursuit that uses the sideline to box in the ball. This tends to favor tackles that are more explosive and capable of cutting off parts of the field when working together.

A vanilla 4 down scheme in the most basic set will run a "1 technique" and a "3 technique", this simply denotes the gap that they line up in. A 1 is the closest to a traditional nose guard, lining up in the gap between the center and guard. This tends to be a shorter and heavier guy, not so much due to the idea of wanting to "eat space" (remember the idea is to punch holes/account for gaps in the front) but you want a guy who can take on double teams and not get consistently moved off his mark as this will be a focus of the offense when they can move linebackers to the edge to account for players in space.

Sticking with a vanilla example, the 3 tech then lines up on the opposite side of the center from the 1 tech in the gap between the guard and tackle. This guy's main focus is to get in the backfield and get after the ball. Fast twitch and explosiveness are paramount and guys with high motors tend to excel.

Hope this helps.

 

[Xanadu]

Main thing is that you want a big NT (6’3” 330 there about) to force and eat double teams while stuffing the run. Then you want a smaller (about 280-290) DT that is explosive, athletic, and has good hands to place pressure on the QB along with your DEs. Even the DEs on opposite sides on the ball with differing skill sets in which one is more of a traditional DE that sets the run and tackles well in space while your other (normal from the blind side) is your very athletic EDGE rusher (like Fadil Diggs).

Bottom line, this is a big boy defense where composition, body type, and athleticism are just as important as the scheme. If you don’t have the right pieces to a T then it is hard to succeed. That’s why the NT is so important to get; they don’t make many of them.

 

[shu 49]

Main thing is that you want a big NT (6’3” 330 there about) to force and eat double teams while stuffing the run. Then you want a smaller (about 280-290) DT that is explosive, athletic, and has good hands to place pressure on the QB along with your DEs. Even the DEs on opposite sides on the ball with differing skill sets in which one is more of a traditional DE that sets the run and tackles well in space while your other (normal from the blind side) is your very athletic EDGE rusher (like Fadil Diggs).

Bottom line, this is a big boy defense where composition, body type, and athleticism are just as important as the scheme. If you don’t have the right pieces to a T then it is hard to succeed. That’s why the NT is so important to get; they don’t make many of them.

That kid from A & M Reakes is the closest true 1 shade i have seen in portal yet. Hoping and preying we still have a shot. Was watching the Grant kid from Michigan and he would be a perfect guy. 6'4" @ 340 lbs runs a good forty as i seen him run a rb down in a clip earlier in the year. Just a big ole boy kicking ass.

 

[PhatOrange]

That kid from A & M Reakes is the closest true 1 shade i have seen in portal yet. Hoping and preying we still have a shot. Was watching the Grant kid from Michigan and he would be a perfect guy. 6'4" @ 340 lbs runs a good forty as i seen him run a rb down in a clip earlier in the year. Just a big ole boy kicking ass.

Every NFL team probably thinking the same thing.

imo Him and #55 are the reason Michigan won both playoff games.

 

[Cusester]

Won't this be Elijah's defense? I think Fran will allow him to call his own shots and not force a certain style on him.

 

[AngryOtto]

Won't this be Elijah's defense? I think Fran will allow him to call his own shots and not force a certain style on him.

Hoping that is for both o and d. Let your coordinators coach and be a ceo.

 

[Niastri]

Won't this be Elijah's defense? I think Fran will allow him to call his own shots and not force a certain style on him.

Didn't Robinson run the same thing at Texas A&M?

I think that's why most consider it a forgone conclusion that we'll be running the 4-2-5... Both the head coach and DC have experience running the defense.

That and the recruiting which seems aimed at playing this style of defense.

 

[Cusefan69]

Fran and ERob aligned on defensive philosophy and approach before Erob signed on or Fran and ERob would never had joined up.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I prefer a 4-4-4. But that's just me.

We’ve tried that a few times but the problem is it usually results in the offense moving a minimum of 5 yards forward on every play….

 

[money3189]

I think you guys made good points regarding the 4-2-5. Its a common defense used these days against spread attacks. Its the defense we ran prior to the 3-3-5. Some just do different things out of it. I think Cuse will have flexibility within the D line ( with the edge defender). There will be flexibilty with the over hang player ( Nickle/OLB). We also have to account for what coach Wright brings to the table as well.

 

[SWC75]

Main thing is that you want a big NT (6’3” 330 there about) to force and eat double teams while stuffing the run. Then you want a smaller (about 280-290) DT that is explosive, athletic, and has good hands to place pressure on the QB along with your DEs. Even the DEs on opposite sides on the ball with differing skill sets in which one is more of a traditional DE that sets the run and tackles well in space while your other (normal from the blind side) is your very athletic EDGE rusher (like Fadil Diggs).

Bottom line, this is a big boy defense where composition, body type, and athleticism are just as important as the scheme. If you don’t have the right pieces to a T then it is hard to succeed. That’s why the NT is so important to get; they don’t make many of them.

Why does a NT have to be 6-3. Isn't that a position where leverage is important?

 

[007]

I think you guys are made good points regarding the 4-2-5. Its a common defense used these days against spread attacks. Its the defense we ran prior to the 3-3-5. Some just do different things out of it. I think Cuse will have flexibility within the D line ( with the edge defender). There will be flexibilty with the over hang player ( Nickle/OLB). We also have to account for what coach Wright brings to the table as well.

Really appreciate the experienced coaches sharing their insights. Especially trying to distill down complex concepts. Explaining flex defenders and hybrid fronts is not easy to understand unless you have "lived" it.

I expect a base nickel/4 man front with an emphasis on trying to control the running game with "only" 6 in the box. As you said, we will likely see 3 or 4 or even 5 man fronts using flex defenders situationally. We will need absolute studs at DT and strong side DE to do that well. Guessing that Diggs will be the strong side DE. We are obviously looking at adding the 6-4 290 explosive athletes types for DTs. Those are hard to come by b/c everybody wants them. Fran needs to add at least 1-2 more this cycle.

 

[money3189]

Really appreciate the experienced coaches sharing their insights. Especially trying to distill down complex concepts. Explaining flex defenders and hybrid fronts is not easy to understand unless you have "lived" it.

I expect a base nickel/4 man front with an emphasis on trying to control the running game with "only" 6 in the box. As you said, we will likely see 3 or 4 or even 5 man fronts using flex defenders situationally. We will need absolute studs at DT and strong side DE to do that well. Guessing that Diggs will be the strong side DE. We are obviously looking at adding the 6-4 290 explosive athletes types for DTs. Those are hard to come by b/c everybody wants them. Fran needs to add at least 1-2 more this cycle.

Well said

 

[Dcuse]

 

[CbusCuse]

Main thing is that you want a big NT (6’3” 330 there about) to force and eat double teams while stuffing the run. Then you want a smaller (about 280-290) DT that is explosive, athletic, and has good hands to place pressure on the QB along with your DEs. Even the DEs on opposite sides on the ball with differing skill sets in which one is more of a traditional DE that sets the run and tackles well in space while your other (normal from the blind side) is your very athletic EDGE rusher (like Fadil Diggs).

Bottom line, this is a big boy defense where composition, body type, and athleticism are just as important as the scheme. If you don’t have the right pieces to a T then it is hard to succeed. That’s why the NT is so important to get; they don’t make many of them.

I assume our defense will be most likely similar to A&M's since E Rob is our cordinator. The 4 man defensive front there was all big boys. This above seems to be very accurate. With the big DL we are getting I think some are penciling them in at the DT position on the line when some may actually be the big DE. The big DE is a 290 lbs stud athlete that can get into the backfield and create havoc against the pass or the run.

See below depth chart for A&M against Tennesee this year.

 

[CbusCuse]

We really haven't seen the massive NT's being recruited. I am starting to wonder if the thought is if we don't think we can get a stud 320-330 lb NT that we don't just run with (3) pretty interchangeable 290 lb guys and a traditional DE with size similar to Diggs. That certainly seems like it coukd work in the ACC. Seems like it may be less effective against the big powerful SEC types of teams or the top BIG teams though.

 

[tep624]

I assume our defense will be most likely similar to A&M's since E Rob is our cordinator. The 4 man defensive front there was all big boys. This above seems to be very accurate. With the big DL we are getting I think some are penciling them in at the DT position on the line when some may actually be the big DE. The big DE is a 290 lbs stud athlete that can get into the backfield and create havoc against the pass or the run.

See below depth chart for A&M against Tennesee this year.
View attachment 236310

Much of Nwokocha's film is at DE so I'm wondering if he's the big DE with DT size. The guy runs a 4.7 40 and was chasing down QB's from behind laterally so I think he's a great candidate for that.

 

[PhatOrange]

If you go back and watch White's 3-3-5 you'll see a ton of 4-2-5 out of it. He creeped guys up to the line, especially Linton, Lowery and McDonald. I recall it generally being the most effective look. Long ran a more traditional 3-3-5 didn't blitz as much and we often paid for it, especially on 3rd down.

We historically have run a 4-3/3-4 that I recall (Coach P, to Grob to Marrone) but because it's so hard to recruit big interior defensive line guys we got away from it. I would still have the same concerns. I'm not sure where 320/330 lb monsters who are any good are going to come from. I don't think that's a requirement though, should be effective with 290/300.