Explain to me 1 thing the zone takes away ?

[STEVEHOLT]

-doesn’t take away 3’s
-doesn’t take away lay ups or dunks
-doesn’t take away mid range
-doesn’t force turnovers
-doesn’t prevent offense rebounding

I mean even years when our zone was bad we usually had a give and take .. maybe it wasn’t as good allowing 3’s but that usually meant it was tough sledding to score inside ... or maybe it forced a ton of turnovers ...or maybe it prevented the 3’s but allowed easier inside scoring ..

But this zone is basically garbage ..

 

[orange7]

It’s all JB knows...he doesn’t know anything else.

 

[NineOneSeven]

It takes away bad looks

 

[PauliePeppas]

a real small guard combined with an extremely slow footed guard and zero rim protection will do that. Dont see how its any better at all next year either which is scary

 

[tbonezone]

it does effectively manage to delete a lot of my posts

 

[Jeremy L.]

The zone has always been a numbers game - shoot further away, the percentage of shots don't fall as they do when you're closer. It's 2020, not 1984. Every player can hit them now

 

[Ghost]

-doesn’t take away 3’s
-doesn’t take away lay ups or dunks
-doesn’t take away mid range
-doesn’t force turnovers
-doesn’t prevent offense rebounding

I mean even years when our zone was bad we usually had a give and take .. maybe it wasn’t as good allowing 3’s but that usually meant it was tough sledding to score inside ... or maybe it forced a ton of turnovers ...or maybe it prevented the 3’s but allowed easier inside scoring ..

But this zone is basically garbage ..

This season or generally? Everything up top is too easy right now - driving, entry passes, shots...the recovery is slow, and that just compounds our problems inside.

 

[jdubs30]

It also think it’s a mental issue for opposing players. Typically it makes you think and second guess as opposed to being aggressive. You grow up trying to attack the man in front of you ... the zone makes you more tentative. It takes you out of your comfort zone.

 

[orange7]

It also think it’s a mental issue for opposing players. Typically it makes you think and second guess as opposed to being aggressive. You grow up trying to attack the man in front of you ... the zone makes you more tentative. It takes you out of your comfort zone.

Teams sure look comfortable to me. And if they miss...no worries. They can outrebound our string bean centers and forwards. Not once, not twice...

 

[kcsu]

It takes our ability to rebound.

 

[Red Holzman]

1 thing about zone: SU seems to make little effort to box out.
Understand it's not M2M and box your guy, but there are opportunities.
Rarely see an effort to back up/find a guy nearby to box out.
Edwards did a nice textbook box out tonight.
(only good from this game: able to watch Edwards for extended minutes and imagine the future!)

 

[4the Dubbz]

We don’t have the type of players we are used to having. When we have great athletes the zone is a top defense, when we don’t, it isn’t. It’s all about recruiting over the past 5 or so years.

 

[Brooky03]

The zone is missing rim protectors, particularly at the 5. That’s really it.

Our best zones had ‘mistake erasers’ at the rim who could a) block/alter shots without fouling, b) defend the post and foul line without needing to rely on the other guys collapsing every time to help out.

Our wings are actually alright. And Girard and Buddy have their limits but you guys would be surprised how much better they’d look with a serviceable defender in the middle of the zone. Sidibe and Marek do what they can but they’re mediocre defensive Centers on their very best nights.

We’re like a defense in football with no pass rush. You could have Deion Sanders and Revis as your cornerbacks but if you can’t get to the quarterback, the defense will never be elite. On the flip side, If you have a strong pass rush your defense could be elite even with some of the worst CBs.

pass rush = Center

It baffles me that the staff either didn’t target better defensive Centers or missed on all of the good ones. I’m perplexed that such a crucial position has been so bad for so long.

 

[cuseguy]

The zone is missing rim protectors, particularly at the 5. That’s really it.

Our best zones had ‘mistake erasers’ at the rim who could a) block/alter shots without fouling, b) defend the post and foul line without needing to rely on the other guys collapsing every time to help out.

Our wings are actually alright. And Girard and Buddy have their limits but you guys would be surprised how much better they’d look with a serviceable defender in the middle of the zone. Sidibe and Marek do what they can but they’re mediocre defensive Centers on their very best nights.

We’re like a defense in football with no pass rush. You could have Deion Sanders and Revis as your cornerbacks but if you can’t get to the quarterback, the defense will never be elite. On the flip side, If you have a strong pass rush your defense could be elite even with some of the worst CBs.

pass rush = Center

It baffles me that the staff either didn’t target better defensive Centers or missed on all of the good ones. I’m perplexed that such a crucial position has been so bad for so long.

It’s as simple as being unable to close the deal on good centers and having to settle for projects.

 

[Brooky03]

It’s as simple as being unable to close the deal on good centers and having to settle for projects.

Why do Centers hate us and why haven’t we brought in a former player to coach the bigs?

Until this program gets a Center, we’re going to be fighting just for a spot in the NCAAT every year.

 

[cuseguy]

Why do Centers hate us and why haven’t we brought in a former player to coach the bigs?

Until this program gets a Center, we’re going to be fighting just for a spot in the NCAAT very year.

In general, the center position has never been a key position in our offense. We generally recruit from a defensive way of thinking, someone long and rangy who can defend in the zone, and consequently, many times, we wind up with someone who is thin and a bit of a project offensively.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

a real small guard combined with an extremely slow footed guard and zero rim protection will do that. Dont see how its any better at all next year either which is scary

I thought zones were supposed to hide deficiencies not magnify them.

 

[dollarbill44]

In general, the center position has never been a key position in our offense. We generally recruit from a defensive way of thinking, someone long and rangy who can defend in the zone, and consequently, many times, we wind up with someone who is thin and a bit of a project offensively.

"A bit of a project offensively." You sir, are the master of understatement.

 

[miamicuse]

Is that why Vitale said we are one Derrick Coleman shy of being a good team?

 

[Todoubled23]

not the zone imo its personnel right now, zone can be lethal obviously (Toronto raps been utilizing zone a lot but with transitions to m2m at times (shot clock)

 

[Zelda Zonk]

In general, the center position has never been a key position in our offense. We generally recruit from a defensive way of thinking, someone long and rangy who can defend in the zone, and consequently, many times, we wind up with someone who is thin and a bit of a project offensively.

I don't think this is true.
We had Rony Seikaly. He was pretty key.
We had Arinze. He was pretty key, on a team everyone said should have gone to the NC.
We had Fab Melo. He was pretty key on a good team.

The only real counter argument is that 2003 had Forth and McNeil, who weren't key in terms of depending on them for scoring, but they were both big, strong, could rebound, protect the rim, and not get bullied. And we had Hak and Carmelo to supplement them.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I don't think this is true.
We had Rony Seikaly. He was pretty key.
We had Arinze. He was pretty key, on a team everyone said should have gone to the NC.
We had Fab Melo. He was pretty key on a good team.

The only real counter argument is that 2003 had Forth and McNeil, who weren't key in terms of depending on them for scoring, but they were both big, strong, could rebound, protect the rim, and not get bullied. And we had Hak and Carmelo to supplement them.

So three guys in 35 years?

 

[Fly Rodder]

The biggest issue with an all-zone defense is the number of compromises the team has to make in order for it to be a top-20 D. This is why no other D1 team has made it their only defense. A good defensive coach can get a man D into the top-20 without having to make as many compromises by just having regular players and not 7’ 200lb guys who can’t catch.

 

[Eric15]

When you have two tall/long/athletic guys like Triche and MCW at the top, it works. When you have 5'4" Joe and Buddy who has the defensive foot speed of a melting glacier, it doesn't work as well.

 

[malpearl31]

not the zone imo its personnel right now, zone can be lethal obviously (Toronto raps been utilizing zone a lot but with transitions to m2m at times (shot clock)

I’m old enough to remember all the way back to 2018, when this very same zone defense (with different personnel) was the 5th best D in the country.