Feds Open FSU inquiry regarding handling of Winston charges..

[Moontan]

In Florida (and I suppose in most states), all that is required is probable cause.

Sure, to file charges. Knowing that the case is weak and that the defendant only needs plausible deniability or reasonable doubt to walk, how many (elected) DAs would actually prosecute such a case... especially against a celebrity and local hero?

 

[HtownOrange]

With respect to #1 - Every rape has an accuser and a denying perp. Before DNA rapists could say it wasn't me; now they say it was consensual. As I recall (I could be remembering incorrectly), there were inconsistencies in the "witness" testimony and other circumstantial evidence. In Florida (and I suppose in most states), all that is required is probable cause.

Everyone remembers the Duke lacrosse case (can you believe it was 8 years ago) so we are hesitant to prejudge in fear of false accusation . That said, the credibility of the victim must account for something. These are never clear cut cases and at some point they need to go to a jury, otherwise women are just fair game to thugs.

With respect to #2 you got it exactly right.

Therein lies the conundrum. Victims of s e x ual assault/rape are emotional and few can tell their story perfectly each time they are asked to repeat it. Investigations must be completed by highly trained officers that know what the victim is going through and how they act and how they respond.

 

[retro44]

Therein lies the conundrum. Victims of s e x ual assault/rape are emotional and few can tell their story perfectly each time they are asked to repeat it. Investigations must be completed by highly trained officers that know what the victim is going through and how they act and how they respond.

I feel this story fits right in here with your post....http://www.wsls.com/story/26450937/columbia-student-carries-mattress-around-campus-in-rape-protest

 

[Moontan]

I feel this story fits right in here with your post...

Another tough spot for a DA. The article doesn't indicate if the other 2 women also had previous consensual relations with the accused.

The thing I'm left with as a result of each of these cases for women that are assaulted/raped*:

1. contact the police immediately, and only provide the basic facts ("Johnny raped me in my room at midnight")
2. insist on a medical check ("rape kit") before getting cleaned up
3. get the necessary support/help (counselor/therapist, lawyer, friend, etc.).

A decision on whether or not to press charges can be made later. Not providing the physical evidence can (and likely will) prevent a victim from pursuing "justice" at a later date.

* yes, I realize that this is a traumatic, emotional, experience. It just seems that potential victims are best served by having contemplated "what I will/should do in case I've been attacked" scenarios.

 

[retro44]

Another tough spot for a DA. The article doesn't indicate if the other 2 women also had previous consensual relations with the accused.

The thing I'm left with as a result of each of these cases for women that are assaulted/raped*:

1. contact the police immediately, and only provide the basic facts ("Johnny raped me in my room at midnight")
2. insist on a medical check ("rape kit") before getting cleaned up
3. get the necessary support/help (counselor/therapist, lawyer, friend, etc.).

A decision on whether or not to press charges can be made later. Not providing the physical evidence can (and likely will) prevent a victim from pursuing "justice" at a later date.

* yes, I realize that this is a traumatic, emotional, experience. It just seems that potential victims are best served by having contemplated "what I will/should do in case I've been attacked" scenarios.

How often would you see girls carrying around their mattress in rape cases? She is making a very strong argument as opposed to, oh...well I tried and maybe it was consensual

 

[HtownOrange]

Another tough spot for a DA. The article doesn't indicate if the other 2 women also had previous consensual relations with the accused.

The thing I'm left with as a result of each of these cases for women that are assaulted/raped*:

1. contact the police immediately, and only provide the basic facts ("Johnny raped me in my room at midnight")
2. insist on a medical check ("rape kit") before getting cleaned up
3. get the necessary support/help (counselor/therapist, lawyer, friend, etc.).

A decision on whether or not to press charges can be made later. Not providing the physical evidence can (and likely will) prevent a victim from pursuing "justice" at a later date.

* yes, I realize that this is a traumatic, emotional, experience. It just seems that potential victims are best served by having contemplated "what I will/should do in case I've been attacked" scenarios.

What you recommend is similar to what the police recommend, as well as s e x crime victim advocates. The real problem, and I think you allude to it, is that the state of mind of a s e xual assault victim is traumatized, shock. They do not think clearly most of the time and will not think clearly for some time. Often, the first reaction is to clean up as much as possible immediately, washing away the "dirtiness or filthiness" of the assault, a psychological reaction (my words, not necessarily those of a trained professional, I have had to perform peripheral studies, not actually work as an advocate, an experienced counsellor or advocate would be a much better source than me for a fuller, more accurate description.)

 

[HtownOrange]

I feel this story fits right in here with your post...http://www.wsls.com/story/26450937/columbia-student-carries-mattress-around-campus-in-rape-protest

Yes, it does. The lady did not report it until some time after because she was afraid. Building courage took her seven months.

Sadly, the article does not include whether the police performed an investigation, only that the NYC police did not make an arrest. Often, many colleges present that their procedure is the only procedure to investigate the incident, whether intentional or unintentional. Victims often do not realize that the local police have jurisdiction and this is a crime they should investigate not a campus police force.

 

[CuseLegacy]

http://collegespun.com/acc/florida-...e-jameis-winston-s e xual-assault-allegations

Winstons lawyers response.

Edit: They took the article down.

 

[Moontan]

How often would you see girls carrying around their mattress in rape cases? She is making a very strong argument as opposed to, oh...well I tried and maybe it was consensual

Yes, she is.

Unfortunately, she had a previous consensual relationship with the accused. Did he believe, possibly due to her actions, that this was consensual as well?

She's clearly trying to make a statement and/or is (understandably) struggling with the incident and subsequent events.

She's also using the incident as the basis of two school projects. I don't know if these actions will end up being in her best interest in the long term.

In the end, I hope she's able to lead the life that she wants and is happy. If she really was raped (yes, I know that she believes that she was) then I hope that the accused is punished by the justice system.

 

[Moontan]

http://collegespun.com/acc/florida-...e-jameis-winston-s e xual-assault-allegations

Winstons lawyers response.

Unfortunately, they took the article down.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Unfortunately, they took the article down.

Close

• 
  
  4:30 PM - 4 Sep 2014
  Bryan Fischer‏@BryanDFischer 14h
  Statement from Jameis Winston's lawyer: pic.twitter.com/hieOIbXZ5I

Nothing really ever disappears from the internet.

 

[tipphill]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-investigation-title-ix-civil-rights/7262359/

"FSU joins a growing list of schools under investigation for their handling of s e xual assault cases, including Michigan, Michigan State, North Carolina, Penn State and UConn."

kinda reminds me of watergate, just continued to simmer until finally the lid blew off.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Yes, it does. The lady did not report it until some time after because she was afraid. Building courage took her seven months.

Sadly, the article does not include whether the police performed an investigation, only that the NYC police did not make an arrest. Often, many colleges present that their procedure is the only procedure to investigate the incident, whether intentional or unintentional. Victims often do not realize that the local police have jurisdiction and this is a crime they should investigate not a campus police force.

You could never win a case where it's her word against his with no other evidence. With all due respect to her feelings at the time, she bungled the case by not coming forward at the start.
Having defended guys against crazy women who make up stuff to get revenge, or who try to wipe away their guilty feelings or regret, I look at the he said/she said stuff with jaundiced eyes.

 

[HtownOrange]

You could never win a case where it's her word against his with no other evidence. With all due respect to her feelings at the time, she bungled the case by not coming forward at the start.
Having defended guys against crazy women who make up stuff to get revenge, or who try to wipe away their guilty feelings or regret, I look at the he said/she said stuff with jaundiced eyes.

Agreed on crazy women, I have known guys who were "attacked" by ladies who were regretful or spiteful and things can get ugly quickly. Professionals trained in these cases are pretty good about weeding out the crazy and the regretful women and clearing a guy accused of assault or rape.

In the JW case, the girl had the presence of mind to seek medical attention shortly after the attack. She cooperated with police and they failed her. FSU's investigation is probably more like most schools where the students do the work without knowing anything about what they do and end up covering up for the school. (See above posts.) There is an impression that serious investigation and serious issues are addressed but from a legal perspective and a victim advocacy perspective, it is a farce and often interferes with proper investigations.

In the case of the article with the lady carrying the bed, she was scared and failed to come forward. Her best evidence is that there are several other women that were assaulted by the same guy and the Columbia U. is failing to take the allegations seriously. There is no indication that the police have been asked to investigate, only a comment that the NYC police have made no arrest. What is telling here is that Columbia U. had the student body decide the issues instead of professionals investigating the accusations.