Finally Watched The Game Again

[anomander]

I think the speed is there with a few of the guys. The only ones who don't seem to have ACC level speed is Anderson and Wilkes, but they do other things well , hence 4 year contributors.

A perfect example of our personnel matching what Bullough seems to be trying to do is in the 2nd quarter where Boyd gets off a quick release down the visitor sideline to Bryant. On defense we did everything we could. We blitzed, got good pressure but Boyd is good enough to know where to go with the ball and threw an absolute perfect pass to Bryant for about 20 yards down the sideline. The only difference on our end was the communication between the secondary. Whigham had just handed Bryant off , and Kelly got their a step too late but delivered a big hit. IMO even though it was a completion it was great execution on our end, it was just a great play by a heisman qb, and NFL WR. Not many other teams will execute like that. It also shows that maybe Kelly and Whigham should get more game because that is how our defense is supposed to work, instead of our other safeties getting caught biting on play action or cheating one way or the other


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[sufandu]

I think the speed is there with a few of the guys. The only ones who don't seem to have ACC level speed is Anderson and Wilkes, but they do other things well , hence 4 year contributors.

A perfect example of our personnel matching what Bullough seems to be trying to do is in the 2nd quarter where Boyd gets off a quick release down the visitor sideline to Bryant. On defense we did everything we could. We blitzed, got good pressure but Boyd is good enough to know where to go with the ball and threw an absolute perfect pass to Bryant for about 20 yards down the sideline. The only difference on our end was the communication between the secondary. Whigham had just handed Bryant off , and Kelly got their a step too late but delivered a big hit. IMO even though it was a completion it was great execution on our end, it was just a great play by a heisman qb, and NFL WR. Not many other teams will execute like that. It also shows that maybe Kelly and Whigham should get more game because that is how our defense is supposed to work, instead of our other safeties getting caught biting on play action or cheating one way or the other


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The speed comment was specific to the DE's and lack of pass rush. That's why I put it beneath your comment about the DE's.

 

[anomander]

The speed comment was specific to the DE's and lack of pass rush. That's why I put it beneath your comment about the DE's.

Yep. Obviously rush defensive ends don't grow on trees, but you would think we will eventually try to recruit more pass rush DE's. With what we are trying to do getting to the qb is paramount. I think Johnson and Thompson could eventually be those guys, but it looks like a log jam at the position with Robinson and Welsh only being juniors


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[RICuse44]

The speed comment was specific to the DE's and lack of pass rush. That's why I put it beneath your comment about the DE's.

A true speed end is already on the roster. The problem is that he plays WR. This will be very unpopular given that he is the leading receiver but I think Broyld could be something really special at rush end. Like Vic Beasley special.

 

[sufandu]

Yep. Obviously rush defensive ends don't grow on trees, but you would think we will eventually try to recruit more pass rush DE's. With what we are trying to do getting to the qb is paramount. I think Johnson and Thompson could eventually be those guys, but it looks like a log jam at the position with Robinson and Welsh only being juniors


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Robinson and Welsh strike me as hard working blue collar guys. Hopefully the younger guys or someone we've got on the recruiting radar can at least be a situational pass rush guy until they mature into the position. A similar role to Brandon Sharpe when he was younger. I think the lack of pass rush may be a bigger problem than the secondary.

 

[PhatOrange]

Yep. Obviously rush defensive ends don't grow on trees, but you would think we will eventually try to recruit more pass rush DE's. With what we are trying to do getting to the qb is paramount. I think Johnson and Thompson could eventually be those guys, but it looks like a log jam at the position with Robinson and Welsh only being juniors

you think 4 healthy defensive ends is a log jam?

 

[chakka3421]

Reading both Anomander & Cuseregular posts I feel manic-depressive right now! O-o! I think I just passed the test of being a true SU football fan!

 

[upperdeck]

I also think some of the DE pressure is by design to help with the run defense and keep qbs in the pocket.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I re-watched the first half and took from that Morris is a really good play caller. Love the way he uses motion to exploit mismatches. He will also motion from the slot to draw the LBs and DBs eyes left or right then run an inside zone. The wheel to Humphries was a nice touch. Cam has played well this year. Although he needs to work on his drops a little more he has been great as a blitzer- batted ball on Boyd he almost picks. Now if that turned into a pick or a pick 6 we would all be feeling differently today.

I agree with cuseregular. I felt a little better after watching it again. The blown coverages have to stop though. I think the talent is there to man up. Pro defenses have switched to mostly man at this point since a good QB can dissect the zone. It might be time to back off the attack blitzing defense when you are getting regularly toasted. Hmm... is there a newly available former defensive coordinator out there?

It seems to me that teams overload us with 3 receivers vs. 2 coverage men, or 2 vs. 1, on almost every play, with the LB either being a blitzer on the overload side, or having protection responsibility for an inside slant route. But that still leaves a 2 on 1 if they throw the WR screen / quick out. I don't understand why we don't do something about that when teams do it to us over and over.

 

[javadoc]

Yep. Obviously rush defensive ends don't grow on trees, but you would think we will eventually try to recruit more pass rush DE's. With what we are trying to do getting to the qb is paramount. I think Johnson and Thompson could eventually be those guys, but it looks like a log jam at the position with Robinson and Welsh only being juniors

I really think that with a year of experience and off-season workouts, MPB could have given us that speed rush this year. His loss hurts.

 

[chakka3421]

It seems to me that teams overload us with 3 receivers vs. 2 coverage men, or 2 vs. 1, on almost every play, with the LB either being a blitzer on the overload side, or having protection responsibility for an inside slant route. But that still leaves a 2 on 1 if they throw the WR screen / quick out. I don't understand why we don't do something about that when teams do it to us over and over.

Call in to HCSS on Thursday as I wondered the same thing. Or maybe Football coaches are simply meatheads and can't count?

 

[jr4750]

Yep. I mean "fixed" in the sense that the staff need to do exactly as you noted and simplify things. Though it would cause a strain up front I think they're good enough to handle it, if they're going to keep the same guys out there they'll need to at least occasionally introduce some type of prevent zone d out there and break the field up into 1/3rds both up front and deep where you don't leave your zone, this against teams with such vertical threats. You may die a slow water torcher death in drip drip fashion with short and intermediate passes anyway, but it will requires more plays to get there by the opponent.

And this would result increased chances for something to go wrong (things that our good for us re sacks, deflections, hard hits to cause fumbles, etc.). May not be a good long term strategy, but as you point out looking doubtful it's going to change with the personnel we're using now and unless they;'re going to put whigs, morgan, and others in in place of the current starters they'd best do something as after NW and now Clemson, as the thought comes to mind with all this that if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

Great thoughts... isn't this around the same time last year DM decided to ride Rome all day long... Hope this staff does the same! Kid is an NFL back!

 

[anomander]

you think 4 healthy defensive ends is a log jam?

Well since the starters aren't really producing I would say yes.


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[ImperialOrange]

Yep. Obviously rush defensive ends don't grow on trees, but you would think we will eventually try to recruit more pass rush DE's. With what we are trying to do getting to the qb is paramount. I think Johnson and Thompson could eventually be those guys, but it looks like a log jam at the position with Robinson and Welsh only being juniors


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Hopefully Donnie Simmons comes back healthy. Very curious where he would've been in the DE rotation had he not gotten hurt once again.

 

[PhatOrange]

Well since the starters aren't really producing I would say yes.

Well since the starters aren't really producing I would say yes.

The starters might be starters because of the ‘intangibles’ like experience and assignments (consistently doing the right thing). With the winter and spring under their belts the more talented kids will win out as long as they know their assignments. If they don’t win out then maybe they aren’t as talented.

But define producing - are you only looking at sacks?

 

[GoSU96]

Well since the starters aren't really producing I would say yes.


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If the DE's suck how come the team is 27th in run defense, 15th in sacks, 17th in tackles for a loss, 13th in 3rd down percentage defense? The DL has a big part in all of those stats.

There is only one problem, and it's a huge problem, and it's giving up the big play in the pass game. But that's it, and it's correctable.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If the DE's suck how come the team is 27th in run defense, 15th in sacks, 17th in tackles for a loss, 13th in 3rd down percentage defense? The DL has a big part in all of those stats.

There is only one problem, and it's a huge problem, and it's giving up the big play in the pass game. But that's it, and it's correctable.

Yep and scheming some receivers and te receptions to loosen things up. Shafer should go back and look at last years O. I for one still think West should be running more inside routes

 

[GoSU96]

Yep and scheming some receivers and te receptions to loosen things up. Shafer should go back and look at last years O. I for one still think West should be running more inside routes

Cool Kid had the WR's spread out from sideline to sideline creating one on one matchups with better athlete's. Brilliant. Nothing like getting the ball in space to people who are slower, smaller, and not as quick as the guys defending them. Lemon and Sales would have been limited if they had played Saturday as well if used in the same manner. This crap about NO talent is getting old real quick.

Where were the stacked and bunch formations that they were showing at Fanfest? I'm not sure I saw one play action pass Saturday, and it's not like they weren't running the ball.

 

[anomander]

Hopefully Donnie Simmons comes back healthy. Very curious where he would've been in the DE rotation had he not gotten hurt once again.

I've heard he was going to be our #2 DE right behind MPB


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[anomander]

If the DE's suck how come the team is 27th in run defense, 15th in sacks, 17th in tackles for a loss, 13th in 3rd down percentage defense? The DL has a big part in all of those stats.

There is only one problem, and it's a huge problem, and it's giving up the big play in the pass game. But that's it, and it's correctable.

I'm not saying they suck at all, more like the 2 behind them possibly have more talent, but since are only freshman they are stuck behind the upperclassmen. Robinson and Welsh are serviceable, but going into Spring they were both going to be 2nd string as well. I would say we are doing so good statistically because of our kamazie blitzing and padding stats vs 2 inferior opponents. Either way we have much bigger problems then that position I was just giving my definition of log jam, which is irrelevant to what we have been discussing


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[ImperialOrange]

I've heard he was going to be our #2 DE right behind MPB


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I heard likewise. Had he stayed healthy and MPB stayed out of trouble we would have our speed rushers and Sugar Bear is likely still playing TE. Although we don't use TE's in the passing game anymore apparently so maybe he'd have moved regardless?

 

[javadoc]

I heard likewise. Had he stayed healthy and MPB stayed out of trouble we would have our speed rushers and Sugar Bear is likely still playing TE. Although we don't use TE's in the passing game anymore apparently so maybe he'd have moved regardless?

I had forgotten about Simmons also. That is really damn frustrating - we aren't super deep as is, and to lose the top 2 DE's off the depth chart is pretty much a death blow.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I had forgotten about Simmons also. That is really damn frustrating - we aren't super deep as is, and to lose the top 2 DE's off the depth chart is pretty much a death blow.

Yes and No. I think Welsh has played really well all year and Robinson has really been coming on as the season progresses as well but neither are "speed rushers". Both are d line anchors to set the corner on runs and power rushers on passing downs. They can get better at technique but neither are going to track RB's or mobile QB's down from behind. We are a bit spoiled in terms of speed rush expectations though since we watched one of the best ever a decade ago.

 

[Tigerfan4life]

If the DE's suck how come the team is 27th in run defense, 15th in sacks, 17th in tackles for a loss, 13th in 3rd down percentage defense? The DL has a big part in all of those stats.

There is only one problem, and it's a huge problem, and it's giving up the big play in the pass game. But that's it, and it's correctable.

A lot of that comes from the heavy blitzing you guys do. Morris kinda mentioned it in his post game. If you are gonna blitz that much you have to have corners who can play man the entire game. Otherwise you have to back off the blitz and give some help over the top or drop some LBers into coverage.

Georgia Tech under John Tanuta used to get burned all the time a few years ago like that. They blitzed almost every single down. Sometimes they did great with that but a lot of times they got burned deep for big plays. There are good things and bad things about heavy blitz defenses. If your secondary is the weak link then blitzing is gonna get them ripped to shreds.

 

[IHeartSUFball]

tigerfan4life you seem like a kind person but its time to move on... Secondly, I think we will have a lot more success this week blitzing on this QB will will throw some picks, the man problem we have is how much pressure their front gets on hunt and how he handles it.