Florida State thoughts

[RF2044]

I've always felt like Hamilton was a one-trick pony type of coach -- his teams play tough, physical, relentless defense, but are generally subpar offensively [which is why the team's he's coached have traditionally struggled executing against the zone].

The past several years, he's been on a recruiting tear. And when you have better players, good things happen. But as a game coach, he's nothing special -- he sure won't outcoach anybody from an X's and O's standpoint. But he has a solid system in place, and he gets his players to play hard.

 

[General Joe]

What matters for the resume is NET ranking, not Top 25.

Very true the NET rankings matter in determining the NCAA tourney seeds. One of the components of NET is SOS isnt it???????? So if we play FLST as a top 25 team instead of say #31 team it would inprove our SOS wouldnt it?????? Thus improving our NET. Do you think the coaches who vote in the coaches polls still look at the eye test AND who you beat in the top 25? I gotta believe a coach might say Syracuse beat #1 Duke and #16 OHST on road and #25 FLST at home, i can vote them in my top 25. Might not make a difference as it would still be quadrant 1 win in NET either way but it might get us more votes for coaches polls etc and if we are higher ranked i believe our NET will go up wouldnt it?????

 

[Knicks411]

Very true the NET rankings matter in determining the NCAA tourney seeds. One of the components of NET is SOS isnt it???????? So if we play FLST as a top 25 team instead of say #31 team it would inprove our SOS wouldnt it?????? Thus improving our NET. Do you think the coaches who vote in the coaches polls still look at the eye test AND who you beat in the top 25? I gotta believe a coach might say Syracuse beat #1 Duke and #16 OHST on road and #25 FLST at home, i can vote them in my top 25. Might not make a difference as it would still be quadrant 1 win in NET either way but it might get us more votes for coaches polls etc and if we are higher ranked i believe our NET will go up wouldnt it?????

The Poll rankings have absolutely nothing to do with SOS/NET. NET has their own efficiency measures they yse to rank teams. They dont look at the polls at all

 

[General Joe]

The Poll rankings have absolutely nothing to do with SOS/NET. NET has their own efficiency measures they yse to rank teams. They dont look at the polls at all

I want you to re read what you posted specifically " the polls have absolutely nothing to do with SOS/NET". How could that be possible???? To have any measurement tool you have to have a baseline to judge against dont you? Thr underlying common measurement is the ranking. How else can you judge a good win or bad loss????????? The NET then takes that data and other criteria like SOS and compiles its ratings. Simply updating and replacing RPI. Point to how the heck can you compile DOS without rankings???????? Think about it before you reply. There is a very simple answer which is you couldn't. But dont take my word for it here is the NCAA'S explanation of its NET tool


The NET, explained: NCAA adopts new college basketball ranking to replace RPI | NCAA.com

You might focus on the fact that the NET includes and relies on Jeff Sagarin, Ken Pom and tge ESPn power index as part of the NET. Thos metrics also included a baseline ranking and SOS. Thats why when Syracuse loses to ODU they drop in polls. When they beat Duke they rise in polls...... but also in RPI, Ken Pom, BPI, RPI and the NET. Think about it

 

[Knicks411]

I want you to re read what you posted specifically " the polls have absolutely nothing to do with SOS/NET". How could that be possible???? To have any measurement tool you have to have a baseline to judge against dont you? Thr underlying common measurement is the ranking. How else can you judge a good win or bad loss????????? The NET then takes that data and other criteria like SOS and compiles its ratings. Simply updating and replacing RPI. Point to how the heck can you compile DOS without rankings???????? Think about it before you reply. There is a very simple answer which is you couldn't. But dont take my word for it here is the NCAA'S explanation of its NET tool


The NET, explained: NCAA adopts new college basketball ranking to replace RPI | NCAA.com

You might focus on the fact that the NET includes and relies on Jeff Sagarin, Ken Pom and tge ESPn power index as part of the NET. Thos metrics also included a baseline ranking and SOS. Thats why when Syracuse loses to ODU they drop in polls. When they beat Duke they rise in polls... but also in RPI, Ken Pom, BPI, RPI and the NET. Think about it

I'm referring specifically to the AP/Coaches Polls, which is what it seemed like you were talking about.

And furthermore, the NCAA team sheets don't refer to ranking, regardless of the method, based on the time of the game; it's always at the end of the season

 

[General Joe]

I'm referring specifically to the AP/Coaches Polls, which is what it seemed like you were talking about.

And furthermore, the NCAA team sheets don't refer to ranking, regardless of the method, based on the time of the game; it's always at the end of the season

Do the polls factor into Ken Pom, Sagarin BPI?

 

[Knicks411]

Do the polls factor into Ken Pom, Sagarin BPI?

No? They're just whatever the coaches/media think. Indirectly; maybe? Think you're reaching a little here.

My point is/was whether FSU is ranked 24th or 31 in the AP poll today isn't going to affect where they are in the NET rankings and it's really not going to affect where they are in NET on selection sunday

 

[longtimefan]

The thing is; the back half of the schedule is brutal. We may be favored in one of our final 7 games, @Wake. Louisville home and @ Clemson will be somewhat close, and I wouldnt be surprised if we are favored against Louisville, but top 3 or 4 gonna be real tough. Would be an incredible accomplishment. Ken Pom projections have us winning 2.68 of the last 7 games, even if you round it up to 3 and assume we go 2-0 this week, that's still "just" 12-6, Va Tech is currently projected to finish fourth with a 13-5.

Obviously a million things can happen, but I'm more saying the schedule is really heavily backloaded and I would be extremely pleased to finish top 6. (a win against FSU would go a long way to making this happen)

It's funny, my goal before the season was basically not to be on the bubble; when you got to the middle of Feb be in a position where we were basically locked into the field, which I think would mean roughly like a top 6 seed (top 24 overall). 6 weeks ago I wouldve said there is no chance of that. Now? i think there is a pretty good chance of that happening

Re: back half of the schedule--

It's brutal for a lot of teams. Take UVa. They have 6 games remaining vs. the other top 5 teams in the standings, and only 2 of those 6 are at home.

 

[Knicks411]

Re: back half of the schedule--

It's brutal for a lot of teams. Take UVa. They have 6 games remaining vs. the other top 5 teams in the standings, and only 2 of those 6 are at home.

Woof, that's pretty tough. Their next 5 games are home Duke, @UNC, home ND, @ Virginia Tech, @Lville. Brutal. Of course they're possibly going to be favored in all 5

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Woof, that's pretty tough. Their next 5 games are home Duke, @UNC, home ND, @ Virginia Tech, @Lville. Brutal. Of course they're possibly going to be favored in all 5

They might be favored in all five but none of those three road games are going to be easy. Plus Duke is never easy.

 

[shandeezy7]

I wasn't totally surprised to see SU open as the favorite in this one, but was a little surprised that it was as high as 4.5.

 

[Knicks411]

They might be favored in all five but none of those three road games are going to be easy. Plus Duke is never easy.

No question, those games are brutal. That might be the toughest stretch any team has all year

 

[cliftonparksufan]

No question, those games are brutal. That might be the toughest stretch any team has all year

Way tougher than a NCAA six game tourney run due to all the road games.

 

[Knicks411]

Way tougher than a NCAA six game tourney run due to all the road games.

Plus I would say the 16 seed in round 1 is usually a layup, but considering who we're talking about...

 

[General Joe]

I wasn't totally surprised to see SU open as the favorite in this one, but was a little surprised that it was as high as 4.5.

We need this game

 

[General Joe]

No? They're just whatever the coaches/media think. Indirectly; maybe? Think you're reaching a little here.

My point is/was whether FSU is ranked 24th or 31 in the AP poll today isn't going to affect where they are in the NET rankings and it's really not going to affect where they are in NET on selection sunday

With all due respect this is getting ridiculous from a common sense perspective. How can you evaluate compare rank without a baseline???????? The rankings are the baseline. Thats the reason we have a pre season ranking. Again why is it do you think a team can move up or down in the rankings from game one if they beat a team higher rsnked or lose to a team lower ranked? How can you have a non conference SOS if its not based on the rankings. Again tgis is really just common sense. Just think about it. Here are the Ken Pom metrics. Look at his SOS metrics. How does he determine if your schedule is tough???????

2019 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

I've read some of your post and your a thoughtful person so I cant understand why you dont get this. Let me try one different way. When you look at teams schedule how do you determine if its tough or not if you dont use the rankings?

 

[HoustonCuse]

With all due respect this is getting ridiculous from a common sense perspective. How can you evaluate compare rank without a baseline???????? The rankings are the baseline. Thats the reason we have a pre season ranking. Again why is it do you think a team can move up or down in the rankings from game one if they beat a team higher rsnked or lose to a team lower ranked? How can you have a non conference SOS if its not based on the rankings. Again tgis is really just common sense. Just think about it. Here are the Ken Pom metrics. Look at his SOS metrics. How does he determine if your schedule is tough???????

2019 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

I've read some of your post and your a thoughtful person so I cant understand why you dont get this. Let me try one different way. When you look at teams schedule how do you determine if its tough or not if you dont use the rankings?

Dude you are raving. Relax a little. I’m not sure what you are so excited about but listen to the man, he is correct. The AP and Coaches polls are simply subjective opinions about teams, one by the media and one by coaches (or whoever they delegate to fill it out). The NET, KenPom, etc are statistical/analytical measures of each team’s actual performance and should be a much better measure of the the team. Polls and analytics have absolutely no connection. The polls are qualitative measures and the analytics are quantitative measures.

 

[MSOrange]

With all due respect this is getting ridiculous from a common sense perspective. How can you evaluate compare rank without a baseline???????? The rankings are the baseline. Thats the reason we have a pre season ranking. Again why is it do you think a team can move up or down in the rankings from game one if they beat a team higher rsnked or lose to a team lower ranked? How can you have a non conference SOS if its not based on the rankings. Again tgis is really just common sense. Just think about it. Here are the Ken Pom metrics. Look at his SOS metrics. How does he determine if your schedule is tough???????

2019 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

I've read some of your post and your a thoughtful person so I cant understand why you dont get this. Let me try one different way. When you look at teams schedule how do you determine if its tough or not if you dont use the rankings?

I wouldn't talk down to people when you're wrong.

 

[Newhouser]

A lot of teams have a tough stretch this month - I think Bilas last night said Louisville's was the hardest month he has ever seen.

 

[NateW]

These are the types of games we win. Home against a 2nd Tier ACC team. Our backs are still slightly against a wall because of a few poor losses early - team’s execution and confidence grow with each game. Everyone knows their role now.

I like our chances tonight.

Hopefully the Dome crowd is alive tonight. Need some noise and energy in the building!

 

[rrlbees]

With all due respect this is getting ridiculous from a common sense perspective. How can you evaluate compare rank without a baseline???????? The rankings are the baseline. Thats the reason we have a pre season ranking. Again why is it do you think a team can move up or down in the rankings from game one if they beat a team higher rsnked or lose to a team lower ranked? How can you have a non conference SOS if its not based on the rankings. Again tgis is really just common sense. Just think about it. Here are the Ken Pom metrics. Look at his SOS metrics. How does he determine if your schedule is tough???????

2019 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

I've read some of your post and your a thoughtful person so I cant understand why you dont get this. Let me try one different way. When you look at teams schedule how do you determine if its tough or not if you dont use the rankings?

The coaches and writers polls (rankings) have nothing to do with Kenpom or similar computer rankings.

 

[Jake]

This game and @NCState will determine a lot.

 

[General Joe]

I wouldn't talk down to people when you're wrong.

Sorry if anyone thought i was talling down to them. Its just frustrating when you make your statement and i literally sent you Kenpom breakdown. I also noticed you literally cant refute the point on a factual basis which tells who is correct. You can prove me VERY WRONG by answering this simple question.
When the season starts how can you have a SOS if no games have been played? My answer is because its a predictive measure based on the pre season rankings. What is your answer to that simple question?

 

[rrlbees]

Sorry if anyone thought i was talling down to them. Its just frustrating when you make your statement and i literally sent you Kenpom breakdown. I also noticed you literally cant refute the point on a factual basis which tells who is correct. You can prove me VERY WRONG by answering this simple question.
When the season starts how can you have a SOS if no games have been played? My answer is because its a predictive measure based on the pre season rankings. What is your answer to that simple question?

Expectations of each team. You can also get kenpoms preseason rankings long before any coaches or writers poll even comes out. He’ll start working on it in March or April of this year for next season.

 

[General20]

This game and @NCState will determine a lot.

Huge game.

I've been thinking for a while that the season will hinge on the second tier ACC games. Cuse is doing very well against the tier 3 teams. Assuming Duke and UVA are tier 1, the worst we can do is 1-2 against them, which isn't bad. V Tech, Flordia St, UNC, NC St, and Louisville are the tier 2 teams. We already lost to V Tech, and I dont like the UNC match up or game time.

If we want to have a good season and a decent seed in the tournament we need get some wins against Florida St, NC St, and Lousivlle ... hopefully 2 or 3 wins.