For as much as people complain about our OOC scheduling...

[OrangeDW]

A powerhouse? Cuse was only marginally more relevant nationally than they are today. Yes they generally wound up somewhere in the vicinity of the top 25 but I don't think anyone outside of Syracuse ever thought we were close to a powerhouse.

It's more like we were really solid then and lately we've completely sucked.

Marginally more relevant? Just look at who we beat back then...Miami, VT, Michigan, LSU, Georgia, Auburn, Colorado, Clemson, Texas, UNC, Florida, etc. Powerhouse might be too strong, but we were on a completely different level then, than we are now.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's not a straw man at all -- the point is we need to get better period. The idea that scheduling horrendous teams inherently makes us better is a strategy but hardly a remedy for what ails this program. Ok, you can go to whatever bowl at 5-7 this year if you replace ND with southwestern Louisiana baptist. Ok, cool, I love the 15 extra practices and good for the team but ultimately we are in the exact same spot next year. And, don't forget, Ohio state would draw 85K to an algebra final featuring a backup LB. we struggle give away 35K for Pitt. That matters in the pocket book and for recruits. People come out to see a good team. They stay home for NW Missouri.

The point is the program needs to improve. Schedule a few wins? Ok, but they can't duck solid OOC competition for long. It just doesn't work in upstate NY

Baby steps. You've gotta walk before you can run.

Who cares about the fans right now? It's bottomed out and there's nowhere to go but up. They don't even come out when we play Clemson or FSU anymore because they know we won't win. Forget them. They'll be back when we win. Get some Ws, get some bowls, get some positive momentum and get this thing snowballing. We get plenty of shots in conference for that big headline grabbing win. Heck, we got one this year. More to come, hopefully.

 

[OrangeDW]

So I guess here's the question... would people rather play in Baton Rouge in September and finish 5-7, or play some C-USA scrub, go 6-6, and play, say Akron in the Detroit bowl in December?

Keep in mind that, as we know from every bowl appearance we've made in the past 18 years, there is no guarantee that a bowl appearance means the next year is going to be an improvement.

My answer: give me the one big P5 OOC opponent each season. To me this is entertainment. Playing in a bowl against another 6 win team in a half empty stadium isn't worth sacrificing the marquee P5 games. I know others disagree.

6-6 and the bowl. Going to some powerhouse and losing and being all in awe of how good they are and how good their game day scene is...nah. I'm not in to all that. When we can go there and beat them and steal their banner or something...I am into that.

 

[billsin01]

Why not just get 4 easy ones so that when we do go 4-4 in the league we're an 8 win team in a decent bowl with some momentum?

Im fine with not killing ourselves preseason but you don't get any enjoyment out of playing a good opponent? You don't think that has any benefit even if we lose?

 

[billsin01]

6-6 and the bowl. Going to some powerhouse and losing and being all in awe of how good they are and how good their game day scene is...nah. I'm not in to all that. When we can go there and beat them and steal their banner or something...I am into that.

But that's my thing -- you need to improve as a program. I'm not sure whipping Colgate brings us any closer than losing to LSU. In fact I'd argue you can learn a lot from the latter. And you say who cares about the fans -- I get your point but packing the dome is a key to our revival as well. That's all $$$$.

 

[OrangeDW]

Im fine with not killing ourselves preseason but you don't get any enjoyment out of playing a good opponent? You don't think that has any benefit even if we lose?

I do, but we play enough of them in conference that I'm good on going easier OOC. We had 3 teams living in the top 10 just in our division this year. That's plenty for now, in my opinion. We start going 8-4 consistently, and have a good shot at beating an LSU, then I'd be a lot more fired up to play them. These power schools...LSU, USC, Penn State, ND...we've literally lost everytime we've played them this decade.

 

[OrangeDW]

But that's my thing -- you need to improve as a program. I'm not sure whipping Colgate brings us any closer than losing to LSU. In fact I'd argue you can learn a lot from the latter. And you say who cares about the fans -- I get your point but packing the dome is a key to our revival as well. That's all $$$$.

If our league sucked like the Big East from 2004-2012, I might agree. As it stands, I think our league schedule is plenty tough that we get plenty of competition and tough games to learn from.

Recent history shows us the Dome isn't going to be packed just because we're playing a big name program...unless that program brings 10,000+ fans. It would be nice, but we can't schedule games for the fans. They don't show up anymore. They can start selling out Clemson and FSU first, if they're going to whine about the strength of the OOC slate. I'm confident they will be back when we win.

I think for example, if we go 8-4 and then the next season have a lot of talent returning and we get some preseason hype...the fans will buy in and come out, and they won't remember or care that 4 of those 8 wins the previous season were gimmies.

 

[007]

We have 5 incredibly winnable games next year: CCSU, MTSU, CMU, BC and Wake. All five of those are at home. That means we need to win one more game out of the other seven. One.

At some point we just need to beat semi-decent teams. In this case, one.

Your points, as always, are well made and well taken. That one additional win, in all likelihood, will not be the OC game at LSU. Let's put the scheduling LSU debate aside for the moment. If we hold serve on the 5 you mentioned, that one additional win will most likely come down to beating Pitt at home or NC St on the road. I am not assuming anything here other than looking at probabilities in picking those teams. Most of us realize the season will not play out completely to form, it rarely ever does. However, I do believe that Babers will find a way to 6 next year. Given the fact that we are 40 below .500 over the past 12 seasons and have been unable to consistently beat "semi-decent" teams for a while now, that belief is based more on faith than probability. The margin for error is razor thin given the current state of the program.

To my way of reasoning, that is the fundamental issue here. We should be scheduling to pad the reality of that margin for error. Not in perpetuity. But long enough to change the national perception of being a perennial loser and get to bowl games, which in turn will attract better recruits.

 

[Stern]

But that's my thing -- you need to improve as a program. I'm not sure whipping Colgate brings us any closer than losing to LSU. In fact I'd argue you can learn a lot from the latter. And you say who cares about the fans -- I get your point but packing the dome is a key to our revival as well. That's all $$$$.

More moral victories in losses...LMAO! And packing the Dome with LSU fans or opposing fans isn't "packing the Dome" helping SU

 

[rocklloyd]

More moral victories in losses...LMAO! And packing the Dome with LSU fans or opposing fans isn't "packing the Dome" helping SU

completely agree. I think some here have forgot who goes to games now. What we need are the casual fans, 15 to 20K of them. You know what gets casual fans excited? wins! The casual fan does not care who we are playing when we are 3-0 trying to get to 4-0. They want to see offensive fireworks. That casual fan excitement then turns into community buzz. Buzz gets even more people excited and that's exactly what we need now. I want to be able to give extra work tickets away and not feel like I'm begging when I do.

In our state of program right now, adding degree of difficulty is pointless if the odds suggests it will result in a loss.

 

[kcsu]

Parking concessions ticket prices air conditioning... Will NEVER trump wins when it comes to the casual fan.

 

[TheCusian]

People also seem to forget that beating a relatively competent opponent in a football game is waaayyyy more fun as a spectator than putting up 70 on Colgate in a game even the players' parents struggle to get excited for. Hurray we hammered MTSU by40 in front of 26K in the Dome!! We're baaaaacccckkkkk!!!!

(If we beat MTSU by 40, we should be feeling pretty good.)

Half our schedule was ranked P5 this year, why add another?

Winning seasons put season ticket holders in seats. Losing games to marquee teams perpetuates casual fans buying single game tickets and the idea we'll never be good.

 

[AZOrange]

Playing for the FG with the QB we had, and the incredible game our QB had, and the offense we were going against...SMH. Losing on a last second FG...could see it coming a mile away. Almost 20 years later and it's still frustrating.

It's maybe the worst call in SU history. Gets a pass because of the pass interference penalty later, but we lost because we relied on Nate Trout and not 5.

 

[baggerbob]

But that's my thing -- you need to improve as a program. I'm not sure whipping Colgate brings us any closer than losing to LSU. In fact I'd argue you can learn a lot from the latter. And you say who cares about the fans -- I get your point but packing the dome is a key to our revival as well. That's all $$$$.

You need to win first, and do it every year then the fans will come back.

 

[Scooch]

You guys don't pay attention. We've beaten crap teams and no one cares. I'm not saying that's not reason to schedule crap teams, but the SU fan base knows what's what.

2 years ago we were 3-0 against cupcakes and then played LSU. What was the attendance for that?

I agree that we need to win but winning against nobodies does not excite our fan base.

 

[Bayside44]

I think the complaint here is that a bunch of ham and egger type teams are in bowls, teams that we've either beaten or were competitive with - and those programs scheduled to help them play in the bowl season.

 

[721Comstock]

You guys don't pay attention. We've beaten crap teams and no one cares. I'm not saying that's not reason to schedule crap teams, but the SU fan base knows what's what.

2 years ago we were 3-0 against cupcakes and then played LSU. What was the attendance for that?

I agree that we need to win but winning against nobodies does not excite our fan base.

LSU brought like 10k fans, due to the novelty of playing in the Dome.
And they travel well regardless of opponent.

Yeah - everybody was "excited" for a few days before and after the game, but it was still a big fat L, and now that's all anybody will ever remember about it, or that entire season, or basically the past decade plus for SU Football.
Losers. Irrelevant.

 

[JoeSU]

I think the complaint here is that a bunch of ham and egger type teams are in bowls, teams that we've either beaten or were competitive with - and those programs scheduled to help them play in the bowl season.

... and by extension, developing a winning culture and raising the perception of the program will aid recruiting, which will help build the program to the point we become more competitive in the ACC and with high profile OOC opponents, which will in turn catalyze the fan base.

 

[Scooch]

BC made like 10 garbage bowls in a row. How'd that pay off for them?

 

[Scooch]

Snark aside, I do understand what people are saying and I don't totally disagree. Just saying that it's not a cure-all.

We gutted out mediocre bowls in 2012 and 2013 and our recruiting was still lacking.

 

[721Comstock]

BC made like 10 garbage bowls in a row. How'd that pay off for them?

MUCH better than SU NOT making any garbage bowls for 10 out of the last 15 seasons.

Seriously - we haven't gone bowling 2/3 of the time, and you're trying weakly to throw shade on programs that have bowled regularly?
:crazy:

 

[Chip]

Snark aside, I do understand what people are saying and I don't totally disagree.

I've said this a few times, but everyone needs always keep it in mind. We HAVE to play one OOC from a Power 5. I don't know if we get fined or what the penalties are, but that's the agreement.

I like the idea of playing a big name because that's the SU I fell in love with as a freshman (hello Spurrier 1991, not so much Bowden 1991), and as a sophomore with Texas/Ohio State. They were such events. People would lose their mind if the Dome was like that today.

Problem is, we're just not ready for it right now. I would hope we're ready for it by the time Wisconsin comes to the Dome in 5 years. Hopefully even @Wisconsin in 4 years, but that's a tall order.

In between, it's just @ LSU at this point. We can't change it, so just play it and go take the trip. It's supposed to be one of the best. Other than that, there are no other heavyweights in between, except for the uncontrollable ND.

 

[OrangeDW]

BC made like 10 garbage bowls in a row. How'd that pay off for them?

Part of that was all the coaching switches though, wasn't it? When Marrone came in, a ton of guys left and we also had to scramble to fill out that class when he was hired. Then same thing when Marrone left. It's hard to build any program depth and recruiting momentum when you've got a new coach every 3-4 years.

Edit: Thought I was replying to the "gutted out mediocre bowls in 2012 and 2013 and recruiting was still lacking" post.

 

[Scooch]

MUCH better than SU NOT making any garbage bowls for 10 out of the last 15 seasons.

Seriously - we haven't gone bowling 2/3 of the time, and you're trying weakly to throw shade on programs that have bowled regularly?
:crazy:

Really? What's BC's perception on these national scene right now? I'm not throwing shade, I'm noting that it seems that for some schools going to a lot of mediocre bowls doesn't propel them onto anything better.

 

[Bayside44]

Snark aside, I do understand what people are saying and I don't totally disagree. Just saying that it's not a cure-all.

We gutted out mediocre bowls in 2012 and 2013 and our recruiting was still lacking.

Well our coach quit and our AD screwed up the new hire, etc...