For once, some positivity with respect to Carmelo Anthony

[RF2044]

Pretty fair assessments about his eventual HOF candidacy:

Is Carmelo Anthony a lock for the Hall of Fame?

 

[721Comstock]

Pretty fair assessments about his eventual HOF candidacy:

Is Carmelo Anthony a lock for the Hall of Fame?

Smart people all agree - Melo is a HOF lock.

NCAA champ, 3x Olympic gold medal, NBA scoring champ, and will likely be 12th ALL TIME in scoring by the end of this next season.

Yes, his NBA career has some warts, and he never won a ring, but he's still one of the greatest scorers ever.
Point blank, period.

 

[OrangeDW]

i read the first sentence of the article and had a hard time believing it. This is a real thing? Who in their right mind would even debate this?

Glad all the writers pointed out the obvious. It’s not a debate whatsoever.

 

[Orangezoo]

i read the first sentence of the article and had a hard time believing it. This is a real thing? Who in their right mind would even debate this?

Glad all the writers pointed out the obvious. It’s not a debate whatsoever.

I'm sure a good number of posters on here would argue it per their take on melo in other threads.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's because people don't understand how the basketball hall of fame works.

 

[OrangeDW]

And this is a separate but still related thing...the single minded fixation on “rings” with no regard for the context in which they were won(or not won)is one of the dumber things that too many basketball fans do when rating how good a player was.

 

[MSOrange]

i read the first sentence of the article and had a hard time believing it. This is a real thing? Who in their right mind would even debate this?

Glad all the writers pointed out the obvious. It’s not a debate whatsoever.

I'm only a casual NBA follower at best but that was my reaction - this is a debate?

 

[OrangeDW]

I'm only a casual NBA follower at best but that was my reaction - this is a debate?

Right. It really isn’t. If anyone is trying to make it a debate, they are either trolling or truly have zero clue what they’re talking about.

The only debate is whether he’s first ballot or not. That doesn’t seem to be nearly as big of a thing in basketball as it is in football or especially baseball. But it is there to an extent, and some guys like Bill Simmons talk about how there should be “tiers” to the basketball hall of fame. Like Jordan is tier 1, someone like Drexler might be tier 3, a Mitch Richmond might be tier 5. Those are the only legit debates with a guy like Melo.

 

[RF2044]

Right. It really isn’t. If anyone is trying to make it a debate, they are either trolling or truly have zero clue what they’re talking about.

Agreed -- I just think that Melo is so universally reviled in the sports media, that they take every attempt to bash him and to knock his career.

It was refreshing to see an article which I expected to make the case against him, instead unanimously shoot down the dopey notion that he isn't a HOF lock.

 

[realorange]

For those who think it takes a championship ring to be HOF worthy, it would be interesting to see how many ring winners will never be close to gaining entry.

 

[OrangeDW]

For those who think it takes a championship ring to be HOF worthy, it would be interesting to see how many ring winners will never be close to gaining entry.

For me the ultimate player to discuss in terms of the obsession with “rings” is Gary Payton.

He played 28 mpg on a title team. He was 37 years old and averaged like 8 ppg and 3 apg on 42% shooting. He was a mediocre player at that point and on his last legs. At the same time, he contributed to a title team. If I recall he even hit some big shots in the finals. He helped. They won. But he was mediocre. So does that ring validate him over guys who never won one like Stockton? Or Paul if he never wins one?

From 1994 to 2002 he finished in the top 10 in MVP voting in every single season except for one. Consistently a top 10 player (and the best overall PG based on accomplishments in that time period) for almost a decade. Never won a ring as a star player. So is that a “knock”? Didn’t do it as a star, so not as good as Kyrie Irving? He won as an all star?

But the 1996 Sonics went 64-18 and took the Bulls to 6 games. They were good enough to win it. They probably would’ve been favored to beat the 94 Knicks, the 95 Magic, and the 98 Bulls(Pippen and Rodman were fading fast by the playoffs that year). His best team as a star player just happened to run into the 72-10 Bulls - maybe the greatest team of all time.

So does his ring when he was a mediocre player at 37 years old have anything to do with how great of a player he was? Does his lack of a ring when he was a star player diminish him?

To me the answer is no in both cases. Bad timing in ‘96, and good timing to get on the right team late in his career...none of that had anything to do with how great he was at basketball in his prime. It’s just circumstances.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

For me the ultimate player to discuss in terms of the obsession with “rings” is Gary Payton.

He played 28 mpg on a title team. He was 37 years old and averaged like 8 ppg and 3 apg on 42% shooting. He was a mediocre player at that point and on his last legs. At the same time, he contributed to a title team. If I recall he even hit some big shots in the finals. He helped. They won. But he was mediocre. So does that ring validate him over guys who never won one like Stockton? Or Paul if he never wins one?

From 1994 to 2002 he finished in the top 10 in MVP voting in every single season except for one. Consistently a top 10 player (and the best overall PG based on accomplishments in that time period) for almost a decade. Never won a ring as a star player. So is that a “knock”? Didn’t do it as a star, so not as good as Kyrie Irving? He won as an all star?

But the 1996 Sonics went 64-18 and took the Bulls to 6 games. They were good enough to win it. They probably would’ve been favored to beat the 94 Knicks, the 95 Magic, and the 98 Bulls(Pippen and Rodman were fading fast by the playoffs that year). His best team as a star player just happened to run into the 72-10 Bulls - maybe the greatest team of all time.

So does his ring when he was a mediocre player at 37 years old have anything to do with how great of a player he was? Does his lack of a ring when he was a star player diminish him?

To me the answer is no in both cases. Bad timing in ‘96, and good timing to get on the right team late in his career...none of that had anything to do with how great he was at basketball in his prime. It’s just circumstances.

Also, he gave Jamie Foxx a great look when Foxx said the Glove looked like it had some holes in it at the ESPYs.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I'm sure a good number of posters on here would argue it per their take on melo in other threads.

Ummm.. setting aside Melos career ..there are many truly pedestrian talents in the basketball HOF.. it’s a joke .. how cos he not get in ?

 

[Orangezoo]

Ummm.. setting aside Melos career ..there are many truly pedestrian talents in the basketball HOF.. it’s a joke .. how cos he not get in ?

Why don't you ask said posters? Think you missed the context here. I was not saying he should be left out by any stretch...

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

For those who think it takes a championship ring to be HOF worthy, it would be interesting to see how many ring winners will never be close to gaining entry.

Well, it's the basketball HOF, not NBA HOF, and Melo has a ring and 3 medals.

 

[CusefanATL]

Pretty fair assessments about his eventual HOF candidacy:

Is Carmelo Anthony a lock for the Hall of Fame?

His HOF candidacy is absolutely bullet proof. It's a ridiculous notion to ever even 2nd guess it.

Nearly 30k points and leading ppg for 1 season just about guarantees it by itself even with his "warts" in the NBA

but add 3 time gold medal, 4 overall medals, 1 of, if not, best freshman seasons in history while leading team to title. and if he didnt change college bball himself, he certainly sped up the change. AND a high school natty to go along with it.

absolute lock.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Agreed -- I just think that Melo is so universally reviled in the sports media, that they take every attempt to bash him and to knock his career.

It was refreshing to see an article which I expected to make the case against him, instead unanimously shoot down the dopey notion that he isn't a HOF lock.

The “Melo hate” is due to the issues from his time w/ the Knicks. When he got there the thought was they’d build around him, yet once they started losing, he was blamed for “forcing” the trade that set the Knicks back for years. Somehow, the Dolan screwups at MSG who okd the trade and the over-the-hill Phil Jackson, were all excused, and Melo became the convienient scapegoat. Add to the dashed hopes that a Melo/ Lebron rivalry would be this generation’s Bird vs Magic, and here we are.
Melo’s had a HOF career, and to even ask the question shows how toxic his relationship w/ the media has become.

 

[CusefanATL]

Well, it's the basketball HOF, not NBA HOF, and Melo has a ring and 3 medals.

He has 4 medals FYI, only 3 gold.

 

[CusefanATL]

The “Melo hate” is due to the issues from his time w/ the Knicks. When he got there the thought was they’d build around him, yet once they started losing, he was blamed for “forcing” the trade that set the Knicks back for years. Somehow, the Dolan screwups at MSG who okd the trade and the over-the-hill Phil Jackson, were all excused, and Melo became the convienient scapegoat. Add to the dashed hopes that a Melo/ Lebron rivalry would be this generation’s Bird vs Magic, and here we are.
Melo’s had a HOF career, and to even ask the question shows how toxic his relationship w/ the media has become.

Melo was heavily criticized even before the trade while he trying to force a trade to 1 specific team and not just signing with the knicks after.

the deal was pretty heavily scrutinized as soon as it happened.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Melo was heavily criticized even before the trade while he trying to force a trade to 1 specific team and not just signing with the knicks after.

the deal was pretty heavily scrutinized as soon as it happened.

Again, how does a player “force” anything? If he insisted on coming to NY, you tell him it’s a no-go at that price. Period.
You don’t mortgage the future and then blame Melo like he held a gun to your head. His choices were limited- call his bluff and make him go elsewhere if he wants. Besides, the team they had w/ Gallo, etc. wasn’t exactly winning a championship vs the West or LBJ. Melo was just the excuse.

 

[CusefanATL]

Again, how does a player “force” anything? If he insisted on coming to NY, you tell him it’s a no-go at that price. Period.
You don’t mortgage the future and then blame Melo like he held a gun to your head. His choices were limited- call his bluff and make him go elsewhere if he wants. Besides, the team they had w/ Gallo, etc. wasn’t exactly winning a championship vs the West or LBJ. Melo was just the excuse.

thats fair. But what i'm saying is the blame certainly didnt start in hindsight as you alluded to.

The blame and hate started before the trade even happened. It went on for weeks/months.

 

[OrangeDW]

Again, how does a player “force” anything? If he insisted on coming to NY, you tell him it’s a no-go at that price. Period.
You don’t mortgage the future and then blame Melo like he held a gun to your head. His choices were limited- call his bluff and make him go elsewhere if he wants. Besides, the team they had w/ Gallo, etc. wasn’t exactly winning a championship vs the West or LBJ. Melo was just the excuse.

Always found it curious how little criticism Amare got. While you can’t blame the guy for all his injuries...that you actually CAN blame him for the two injuries he got in the playoffs, and nobody really cared to do so...I don’t get it? I can only imagine if Melo put his hand through fire extinguisher glass or hurt his back goofing off trying to do trick dunks in warmups.

Carmelo is the best NY Knick of the 2000’s, and it’s not close.

 

[OrangeDW]

Well, it's the basketball HOF, not NBA HOF, and Melo has a ring and 3 medals.

Even if Melo didn’t have the college and Olympic accomplishments, he’d still be a lock. Consider that Tracy McGrady is in. No college accomplishments. I honestly don’t remember him in the Olympics. Maybe one? And due to injuries, his NBA stats - both total, per game, All Star berths are all less than Melo’s. And he made it. Mo Cheeks made it. Mitch Richmond. Ray Allen. Grant Hill. Yao Ming.

Some people act like only the Jordan’s and LeBrons and Shaq’s make it.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Being a top 10 player for most of his 15 year career and top 5 for near a decade of a decade gets you in in any sport. BB is probably the easiest to get in. Not really even a question.

If he gets past the Warriors this year with Houston that will more than make up for the bad year in OKC.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Why don't you ask said posters? Think you missed the context here. I was not saying he should be left out by any stretch...

i didnt say you did. my comment is a stand alone.