For those who are burying Cooney thinking

[dollarbill44]

He's definitely no GMac. He's reminds me of Southerland as in being a head case but eventually getting better each year. My hope is by the time TC is a senior he calms down a bit and is capable of contributing at a high level.

The one thing I thought about TC last season was the number of times he tripped when driving low with the ball. I think TC is suffering from what weight lifters call "chicken legs". TC is spending too much time in the weight room developing his upper body and not enough time developing his legs. I think he's top heavy which is why he trips a lot. Just a thought.

This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long while. Please tell me you're joking.

 

[Townie72]

This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long while. Please tell me you're joking.

Well, I don't know why it happens, but Cooney spent more time on the floor last year than any player I have ever seen. Some of the time it was on drives where he appeared to be trying to go faster than he could balance himself. His upper body was way out in front of his legs and he fell down. It happened several times.

 

[cuseattle]

Center no doubt is the hardest position to learn in JB's zone. The guys who have played it the best IMO over the years have either been very good communicators out of that spot, great shot blockers/challengers, great position/closeout lane defenders or some combination of the three. This is why freshman so often struggle in on defense at center for us. The forwards struggle a bit less and the guards struggle the least. I think the reason is that the guards get to react to the ball the most and have the wings and center to fall back on. They do need to watch for moving screens and hinder the easy entrance pass to the FT line but its much easier to catch onto than center of wing in JB's defense. Buss could play IMO because we need a backup PG which is a roll he could fill and even with Conney and MikeG nothing says he couldn't become the backup as a combo guard which JB loves.

Rick was killer that year in that spot. Arinze also killed it. Fab too. We have been pretty lucky.

 

[dollarbill44]

Well, I don't know why it happens, but Cooney spent more time on the floor last year than any player I have ever seen. Some of the time it was on drives where he appeared to be trying to go faster than he could balance himself. His upper body was way out in front of his legs and he fell down. It happened several times.

I thought you were around when Paul Harris was here?
I'm not denying that he spent a fair amount of time in the floor. The supposition that a lack of leg musculature is the cause is silly. If that were the case, he would fall down when he sprints. The guy can jump until his head almost touches the rim. His leg muscles aren't deficient. Furthermore, his upper body is not that big.

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[Townie72]

I thought you were around when Paul Harris was here?
I'm not denying that he spent a fair amount of time in the floor. The supposition that a lack of leg musculature is the cause is silly. If that were the case, he would fall down when he sprints. The guy can jump until his head almost touches the rim. His leg muscles aren't deficient. Furthermore, his upper body is not that big.

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I think Cooney's problem is playing under control. He puts so much effort into moving that he appears to be over-commited and ends up way off balance. I agree it has nothing to do with his his muscles and weight are distributed.

We have on this forum a range of opinions about Cooney's performance to date and his likely future.

There are those who are heartened by his performance to date pointing to flashes of very good play. Others looked at that same picture and feel that he was barely adequate.

There are those who feel Cooney will develop into a solid contributor. Some use his performance year to date as proof he is operating from a good base. Others just feel he will get better because he has to or because others have gotten better.

And there are those that don't feel he has contributed or has contributed very little and that he has flaws in his basic game that will not allow him to play a significant role.

No one that is an SU fan wants to see him fail. The better he is the better we all ought to like it.

But nobody knows what is going to happen with this kid. We are all guessing.

 

[SoBristol]

I think Cooney's problem is playing under control. He puts so much effort into moving that he appears to be over-commited and ends up way off balance. ...Others just feel he will get better because he has to or because others have gotten better.
...

But nobody knows what is going to happen with this kid. We are all guessing.

Yes, guessing, because this is the off-season, and this is a fan-board.

Sometimes we hear about how players are doing over the summer -- maybe on an all-star team in Estonia, or in U-19 competition. What is Cooney doing?

Sometimes we see that players come in skinny and add muscle, or play PG internationally (Rautins), and come back stronger, with added skills. Or they get in much better condition (Fab, Arinze, Rick) and that helps fix what was holding them back.

Pretty sure Cooney would be working in the gym on his ball-handling and shooting, but is he playing somewhere? Any real info?

 

[Quazzum69]

Cooney was 43rd out of 46 players in 3FG% (minimum of 45 attempts) in a season since 2001-02. For the 31 players with at least 100 attempts in a season he had the worst shooting percentage (0.267), with only 2012-2013 Triche (0.288) and MCW (0.292) the only other players with sub-0.300 percentages. After removing Cooney, the average 3FG% of players with at least 100 attempts is 0.356.

Since the 2001-02 season, there have been three players to shoot at least as many threes per minute in a season than Cooney's 0.24 (with a minimum of 45 attempts) - GMac (3 times), Rautins (3 times) and Mookie Jones (25/56 in 179 minutes in 2009-10 season); their average 3 pt shooting percentage was 0.365 for those seasons. Of the 13 players who have a rate of 0.2 3FGA/min or higher (after removing Cooney), the average 3FG% is 0.369. Needless to say, Cooney had one of the worst three-point shooting years in the last twelve seasons, not just for high-volume shooters, but for anyone with at least 45 shots.

Cooney certainly is a curious case. He shot a ton last year and had some great performances, but overall - a disappointment since the team desperately needed another shooter. He was a red-shirted top-100 recruit billed as a sharp-shooter but had the worst year for any "shooter" in the last 12 seasons at Syracuse. He will certainly improve, but guys like Gbinije, Buss and the other top-50 guards will pass over him unless he drastically improves something. In 2015 when he's a senior, he will probably come off the bench, play 14-20 solid minutes as a backup guard who will occasionally hit 6 threes a game.

 

[dfnj]

Center no doubt is the hardest position to learn in JB's zone.

I agree. The center has to be very vocal. The center has to make all the other player's know where and when to shift based on his read of the defense.

At the 1 and 2 position making steals and having quick hands really helps. I think this helps Cooney get playing time. He had some good defensive moments. But he was also burned a few times by quicker guards.

He did have a very good game against Georgetown in the BET. My hope is Cooney brings that level of play consistently this season.

 

[SmilinBob]

Doesn't Boeheim say the biggest jump is freshman to soph? One of the things a lot of HS stars have a problem with is the adjustment of being yanked out of a game for making a mistake. It shakes the confidence and some players that need to get a rhythm really struggle with this type of coaching, I think Cooney is a player that struggles with it.

 

[jordoo]

I agree. The center has to be very vocal. The center has to make all the other player's know where and when to shift based on his read of the defense.

At the 1 and 2 position making steals and having quick hands really helps. I think this helps Cooney get playing time. He had some good defensive moments. But he was also burned a few times by quicker guards.

He did have a very good game against Georgetown in the BET. My hope is Cooney brings that level of play consistently this season.

Agreed and Cooney repeatedly showed a good defensive stance, quick hands and desent anticipation. He will have to learn to be careful about closing out too fast because that was when he was burned off the bounce the most.

 

[jordoo]

Rick was killer that year in that spot. Arinze also killed it. Fab too. We have been pretty lucky.

Agreed.
Arninze was an very good comunicator and was excellent at cutting off the lane as well as moving guys out and occupying rebounders making it easier on the wings.

Rick had those long quick hands and would seemingly block guys before they even knew they were shooting and he was beastly on the boards especially as a senior.

Fab as a soph was a combination that I can't ever remember having. He was a great shot blocker/challanger but also excellent at gettibg infront of guys and holding his ground or taking a charge.

Even last year having an experienced Baye and Rak made up for DC2 trying to learn the position. Rak's best atribute is his athletic ability to recover, block shots ect but he needs to communicate more. Baye is a very good communicator in the middle and of course covers more ground than any 5 I can remember other than Hak although he was a 4 and played the 5 very sparingly.

 

[dollarbill44]

I think Cooney's problem is playing under control. He puts so much effort into moving that he appears to be over-commited and ends up way off balance. I agree it has nothing to do with his his muscles and weight are distributed.

I agree with this completely.

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[SoBristol]

Cooney certainly is a curious case. He shot a ton last year and had some great performances, but overall - a disappointment since the team desperately needed another shooter. ...

Your game stats aren't surprising -- the challenge is figuring out how he can adjust (in games) to shoot like he can in warm-ups (when he seems to be the best shooter on the team). In warm-ups he stays in balance, isn't rushing, isn't curling -- just a good looking pull-up jumper. Might think this could translate to games, but not so far. Many of the shots he takes in games have a high degree of difficulty (because he is moving laterally, or rushing). Can he fix this?

 

[MikeSU02]

Are people really burying Cooney?

I think we've seen glimpses of his potential come through here and there, but he's inconsistent, seems a bit out of control and is playing a position where it looks like we are getting more and more competition by the day.

I hope he becomes an All American this year. My real prediction is he gets either first crack to start or be the initial backup 2G (with Silent G being the starter and short-term backup PG).

If he can't produce this year though, I think he's going to either get buried on the bench and have to fight for PT in the coming years, which I can see him doing, maybe finally breaking through for a solid senior season.

 

[br801]

I somehow managed to not look at this thread until today. Good stuff all around -- some incisive posts, with a few insane ones sprinkled in. I'd say the board is in mid-season form.

 

[dfnj]

I somehow managed to not look at this thread until today. Good stuff all around -- some incisive posts, with a few insane ones sprinkled in. I'd say the board is in mid-season form.

It's the brief moments of sanity that keep driving me insane!

 

[OttoMets]

His overall shooting percentage was most worrisome. But he's too skilled to keep shooting so poorly.

I'd count on Cooney shooting better than McNamara in his last two years (if not this coming season). It's not like that's some exceptionally high bar. If he doesn't (keep in mind that he'll only need to shoot 34.1% from three in either season to be more successful than McNamara was), it's likely that he's not going to see much playing time.

Capt Tuttle's post reminded me of this thread (and another one in which about half our posters insisted that Gbinije would start over Cooney, but that was more difficult to find).

Of course it's early, not even a quarter of the way into the season, but there's some gold in here.

 

[690West]

Capt Tuttle's post reminded me of this thread (and another one in which about half our posters insisted that Gbinije would start over Cooney, but that was more difficult to find).

Of course it's early, not even a quarter of the way into the season, but there's some gold in here.

For those scoring at home, with Cooney's start to this year, here is where posters in this thread stack up:

Accurate

stuckinbig11
moqui
realorange
Jeremy L.
ottomets
Flacusian
GoHamSU
alphaorange
hoopsupstate
MikeSU02

off to way-off

jekelish
ottoingrotto
townie
sgt cuse
anomander (although he hoped to be wrong )
syr02esq
Quazzum

 

[rrlbees]

Some may have noticed that during a couple of player "huddles" on the court, Cooney did the talking. This team is filled with quiet kids. I think Cooney is one that can develop into a vocal leader.

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[jordoo]

Some may have noticed that during a couple of player "huddles" on the court, Cooney did the talking. This team is filled with quiet kids. I think Cooney is one that can develop into a vocal leader.

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Particularly the one after he was fouled hard where he called Jerami back to the huddle as he tried to wander off.

 

[reedny]

Some may have noticed that during a couple of player "huddles" on the court, Cooney did the talking. This team is filled with quiet kids. I think Cooney is one that can develop into a vocal leader.

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He had me scratching my head last year. Even as recently as the Canada series, I wondered what the issue was. Amazing what confidence and PT can do.

Trevor's shooting's really been impressive. He gives us the outside threat we need to loosen up the inside. His D is starting to return to last season's form (he got beat repeatedly against the Cal guards, for example). And he's not afraid to go to the rim ... finishing will come, but I like his effort and aggressiveness.

 

[Townie72]

For those scoring at home, with Cooney's start to this year, here is where posters in this thread stack up:

Accurate

stuckinbig11
moqui
realorange
Jeremy L.
ottomets
Flacusian
GoHamSU
alphaorange
hoopsupstate
MikeSU02

off to way-off

jekelish
ottoingrotto
townie
sgt cuse
anomander (although he hoped to be wrong )
syr02esq
Quazzum

 

[690West]

townie, your post is blank.

 

[Townie72]

Since we are all SU fans nobody wanted to see Cooney fail.

But you do need to change the titles of the two lists above.

Suggesting that someone is "Accurate" for saying that Cooney would be good this year or very good is giving far too much credit. Based on Cooney's lack of performance last year, which was the sum total of the actual evidence we had, these guys weren't "accurate". This is the "Hope" crowd who "felt" for whatever reason that Cooney would become much better. And he did. But anyone who says they "knew" is IMHO F.O.S.

The other column might be labelled "The Realists" who couldn't draw a line from Cooney of last year to a contributor this year. All this is is a "guess" that worked out.

That being said, Cooney and Ennis are carrying this team right now. If we don't start getting some offense down low, this is going to be a much more difficult season than the currently starry-eyed suspect.

 

[690West]

Since we are all SU fans nobody wanted to see Cooney fail.

But you do need to change the titles of the two lists above.

Suggesting that someone is "Accurate" for saying that Cooney would be good this year or very good is giving far too much credit. Based on Cooney's lack of performance last year, which was the sum total of the actual evidence we had, these guys weren't "accurate". This is the "Hope" crowd who "felt" for whatever reason that Cooney would become much better. And he did. But anyone who says they "knew" is IMHO F.O.S.

The other column might be labelled "The Realists" who couldn't draw a line from Cooney of last year to a contributor this year. All this is is a "guess" that worked out.

That being said, Cooney and Ennis are carrying this team right now. If we don't start getting some offense down low, this is going to be a much more difficult season than the currently starry-eyed suspect.

You're absolutely right that everyone in the "off" list wanted to be wrong. I should have stated that.