Fourth And Six Before Halftime

[wfschrec]

Yes, and returning the opening KO for a TD would have provided a great deal of momentum.

But the odds were against that happening.

And the odds were at end of the first half that the Orange would get the three points and not get the TD.

And there was no doubt that the Orange would get the ball to open the second half.

Given the odds and the stage of the game, going for the TD in a compressed red zone against that team was a mistake in my opinion.

Here is a number ... 1 .. the number of drives in the first half where FSU did not score and that was due to a bad fumble. If you can't stop them you have to score with them. Had Ish held onto that ball this thread wouldn't even exist. Based on circumstance going for it was the right call then and it is the right call now.

 

[Stern]

is scott thye offensive coordinator now too? 3 points weren't going to cut it in that spot

Scott does have VETO power as head coach to over-rule his OC and call a play. He is the head coach and he does run the team!!

 

[Chris02M]

Scott does have VETO power as head coach to over-rule his OC and call a play. He is the head coach and he does run the team!!

he has veto power but doesn't use it because he is a defensive minded coach

 

[Chris02M]

Here is a number ... 1 .. the number of drives in the first half where FSU did not score and that was due to a bad fumble. If you can't stop them you have to score with them. Had Ish held onto that ball this thread wouldn't even exist. Based on circumstance going for it was the right call then and it is the right call now.

technically they had 2 drives where they didn't score in the 1st half as the drive right before half got 0 points

 

[rrlbees]

but doesn't call offensive plays

I responded to the part where Shafer was mentioned and whether to kick the FG or not. Besides, he may not call the plays but they all go through him on the headset and if he doesn't like something he best be saying so.

 

[Chris02M]

I responded to the part where Shafer was mentioned and whether to kick the FG or not. Besides, he may not call the plays but they all go through him on the headset and if he doesn't like something he best be saying so.

yes but he is also loyal to his coaches so he will trust there judgement more times than not

 

[Chip]

I do feel however that earlier in the second quarter Scott should have gone for it on fourth down - at about midfield with two or three to go? (Don't recall all the details).

Not that these things always work out in the robotic fashion that a coach will give as his reasoning for decision, but didn't that midfield punt pin them at the 5 and then they fumbled?

I questioned that punt as well, but you know what they say about the broken clock. So it was right this time.

 

[Stern]

he has veto power but doesn't use it because he is a defensive minded coach

Which is what makes him an in over his head type of head coach. The head coach needs to have a grasp of all 3 aspects of the game and control over the game.

 

[Stern]

yes but he is also loyal to his coaches so he will trust there judgement more times than not

He wasn't loyal to McDonald!!! That excuse isn't going to fly

 

[OburgCuse]

I was really questioning whether we should have went for it or kicked the field goal at end of half due to us possibly cutting it to 2 scores and getting ball back after half...but the deciding factor for me that we absolutely should have went for it was the amount of time still left on the clock. There was 1:58 left in half after they called TO after our 3rd down run. If we kick a field goal there I see them starting at 35-40 yd line minimum after return or us kicking out of bounds/squib (highly likely for us) and they will most surely score again before half and wouldn't be surprised if ends up a TD. If we score a TD then obviously we'll take that, but if we get stuffed on 4th down they are mostly like going to be conservative starting from back there and won't try to push it so we end up getting ball back after half. I just felt like in a 2 min drill the way the first half was going no way we stop them from scoring with prob 1:40 to go with a TO and 60-70 yds to go. Best case scenario IMHO if we kick field goal they kick field goal with best kicker in nation before half and negates our field goal anyways.

 

[PhatOrange]

I'd have taken the points but was more pissed off about the third down call.

 

[longtimefan]

Which is what makes him an in over his head type of head coach. The head coach needs to have a grasp of all 3 aspects of the game and control over the game.

Where did that come from?

 

[upperdeck]

if there were 4-5 min left we kick it, no doubt in my mind. with 2 min left FSU,, probably even if we kick 3 doesnt push too hard to score since they had the lead and control. going for 6 tells me that you think we have no shot without crazy luck happening. kicking says you think you are still in the game. if we come out and score the first drive of the 2nd half people would be saying how dumb it was we didnt take the points..

on one hand people say we should be going for it because we weren't stopping FSU and trading field goals for TDs was not enough. Saying that is saying we had no shot to win so we had to win without hitting on 15 every time..

yet here we are arguing about kicking a fg down 18 a day later. that tells me that people felt like there was a shot to win that game had a couple things gone differently against the #1 team after a week of injuries, losing the starting QB, demoting a coach, wanting to fire the head coach, no shot at 2 more wins.

last year we got drilled in this game, this year we are dropped passes away from seeing a chance for stealing a game in the 4th quarter.

going for it energizes the team and crowd but usually just helps you lose the game.

now people are dreaming of a shot of beating wake and seeing what Clemson has without the QB getting to 6 wins.

lets beat Wake.. one game at a time..

 

[MikeSU02]

The problem with your argument is that we lost by 18. Which means of course we shouldn't have taken 3. It means his decision was dead on. The rest of the game doesn't change at all if we have 3 points there, IMO

OPA, I do agree with you on the other short 4th around midfield

Your assumption means the go for it / FG decision happens in a vacuum, which of course it does not. You, nor I, know what changes if we get three there.

If we weren't getting the ball back, I would agree with you, but since we were and were being competitive, I would have taken the three.

24-9 is a two possession game getting the ball back. That changes the emotion/planning in the locker room at half.

 

[wfschrec]

technically they had 2 drives where they didn't score in the 1st half as the drive right before half got 0 points

Look my point is we stopped them once ... that was it, in that situation you have to run with them 3 points isn't going to cut it. The message was simple we are playing to win ... not to keep it close. It was the right call.

 

[Chris02M]

He wasn't loyal to McDonald!!! That excuse isn't going to fly

he knew a change needed to be done to try to salvage this year since this offense had struggled since he was hired except when Lester took more oC stuff from him in the last few games last year

 

[Chris02M]

Look my point is we stopped them once ... that was it, in that situation you have to run with them 3 points isn't going to cut it. The message was simple we are playing to win ... not to keep it close. It was the right call.

I agreed with the decision I was just pointing out that we stopped them twice not once

 

[wfschrec]

I agreed with the decision I was just pointing out that we stopped them twice not once

No the clock stopped them ... their next possession in the second half they scored again. EOH is not a true stop, it would have been one thing if there were 4 or 5 mins on the clock but we didn't even the ball back.

 

[Ghost]

I say go for the field goal.

Regarding some other arguments, if it's a scrimmage or we're going to lose anyway, why not roll the dice on keeping it close and see what happens when you start the third quarter?

Crazy things happen sometimes - maybe we score, maybe Winston forces the issue and throws a pick. Those extra four points still don't put us in the lead, so it's not accomplishing much as far as hoping Florida State tightens up (which wasn't happening anyway more than likely, but it's all you got for the most part). The four extra points aren't a game-changer under any scenario.

Also, it's not like the players have never played football before - I'm sure they're fairly confident they're not gonna win. Does anyone REALLY think they suddenly had a light bulb click and in unison said, "darn it all, this chap believes in us - let's go get 'em!!!" It's not a movie. The notion that he instilled some lesson about believing in them is a bit heavy-handed and Hallmark(y). Obviously it's a huge confidence builder if we score, but that's about it. It's also a huge confidence boost if we're within one score against the number one team in the country in the third quarter.

I do think there are times where a coach goes for it to build up his team, or to reward them for going out and giving it their all - but 4th and Goal on the whatever...nah. Not buying that one.

No right or wrong I guess...but that's my two cents.

Ultimately, I would say if we weren't getting the ball to start the second half - go for the TD. Otherwise, take the points. Our red zone offense has been putrid.

 

[Stern]

Where did that come from?

The last season and a half of watching SU football.

 

[Chris02M]

No the clock stopped them ... their next possession in the second half they scored again. EOH is not a true stop, it would have been one thing if there were 4 or 5 mins on the clock but we didn't even the ball back.

we also got a sack forced fumble on that series that stopped them not the clock

 

[wfschrec]

we also got a sack forced fumble on that series that stopped them not the clock

Did they punt or turn it over? No ... they didn't ... the clock ran out, again you can argue with semantics all you wish SU did not stop them the clock expired while they had possession. They did not punt or turn it over they still had possession.

 

[wfschrec]

we also got a sack forced fumble on that series that stopped them not the clock

Where you watching a different game?

Timeout FLORIDA ST, clock 01:53246
1st and 10 at FSU 6Dalvin Cook run for 11 yds to the FlaSt 17 for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at FSU 17Dalvin Cook run for 4 yds to the FlaSt 21
2nd and 6 at FSU 21Dalvin Cook run for 5 yds to the FlaSt 26
3rd and 1 at FSU 26FLORIDA ST Penalty, Offensive Holding (Josue Matias) to the FlaSt 16
End of 2nd Quarter

 

[Chris02M]

Where you watching a different game?

Timeout FLORIDA ST, clock 01:53246
1st and 10 at FSU 6Dalvin Cook run for 11 yds to the FlaSt 17 for a 1ST down
1st and 10 at FSU 17Dalvin Cook run for 4 yds to the FlaSt 21
2nd and 6 at FSU 21Dalvin Cook run for 5 yds to the FlaSt 26
3rd and 1 at FSU 26FLORIDA ST Penalty, Offensive Holding (Josue Matias) to the FlaSt 16
End of 2nd Quarter

was another drive then jameis fumbled and fsu recovered

 

[wfschrec]

was another drive then jameis fumbled and fsu recovered

Doesn't matter, you wanted to cite that particular drive my point is we didn't stop them the clock did. I know you agree with my premise which is fine but again the premise of my point is we weren't stopping them we had to do it if we really wanted to win.