Fran believes we should be ranked

[Scooch]

I meant more that in the end it shakes out.

I get it. I don't think what you're proposing would shake things out appropriately, but whatever.

FWIW, oddly enough, the Connecticut high school lacrosse championship tournament used to be run just like you're proposing for CFB. Schools were seeded entirely by wins.

Inevitably we'd have a #16 seed with 9 wins who played in a brutal conference beat the #1 seed with 14 wins who played in an easy conference. The state title game was essentially occurring in the first or second round every year. It was dumb.

They ended up changing it to having the seeding determined by the computer rankings on Laxnumbers.com a couple years ago, which takes SoS into account, and it is immensely better.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I get it. I don't think what you're proposing would shake things out appropriately, but whatever.

FWIW, oddly enough, the Connecticut high school lacrosse championship tournament used to be run just like you're proposing for CFB. Schools were seeded entirely by wins.

Inevitably we'd have a #16 seed with 9 wins who played in a brutal conference beat the #1 seed with 14 wins who played in an easy conference. The state title game was essentially occurring in the first or second round every year. It was dumb.

They ended up changing it to having the seeding determined by the computer rankings on Laxnumbers.com a couple years ago, which takes SoS into account, and it is immensely better.

Swell.

 

[NJneer12]

I like the idea of cohorts and starting late in the season as the CFP Rankings do.

If you started after Week 10, and counted how many 2 loss teams or better in the P4 and 1 loss teams or better in G6, you get...26 teams! Gah!

BUT a 6-3 Louisville sneaks in after they beat Clemson. Arizona State and Syracuse both at 6-2 get left out of the rankings from that group.

The following week, Arizona St was left off the rankings at 7-2. Cuse probably is as well if they won. A 6-3 Louisville, LSU, and South Carolina were in tho...an 8-2 Tulane also gets in. Maybe Cuse tops them at #25?

 

[bnoro]

Swell.

It's an odd hill to die on when schools play unbalanced schedules.

 

[Chip]

IMO the B1G and SEC should come together and pool TV monies into one giant association, maybe call it the College Football Association or CFA for short. Then they could group schools into seven 10 team divisions based off of geography. Maybe something like...

Division 1
Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa, Purdue, Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern
Come up with a catchy name like Big Ten.

Division 2
Alabama, LSU, Tennessee, UGA, Auburn, Florida, Ole Miss, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Maybe name it the Southeastern Conference or SEC for short

Division 3
Nebraska, Oklahoma, BYU, Iowa State, Okie State, Mizzou, Utah, K State, Colorado, Kansas
I don't know call it the Big Eight Plus Two?

Division 4
Washington, USC, Oregon, Arizona State, UCLA, Zona, Cal, Stanford, Oregon State, WSU
How about Pacific Athletic Conference Ten or PAC 10 for short?

Division 5
Clemson, South Carolina, FSU, NC State, UNC, UVA, GA Tech, Maryland, Wake, Duke
hmmm Atlantic Coast Conference? ACC for short?

Division 6
Texas A&M, Texas, Arkansas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Houston, SMU, Rice, Tulane
Southwestern Conference sounds nice, or SWC for short.

Division 7
Penn State, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Miami, Louisville, Pitt, Rutgers, SU, BC
I like the Big East for this

The above would cover all current P4 schools except UCF and Cincinnati. Added bonus, no UConn.

So what do you all think?

All I know is, if they ever put me in charge of college football realignment, you're my first call as deputy. I'm going to spend my days on a warm weather beach with adult beverages by my side, knowing you'll get it all worked out.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's an odd hill to die on when schools play unbalanced schedules.

It's like not even in the top 10 dumbest things I've advocated for on this board. Let's not kid ourselves.

I think it's easier to change how pollsters and the committee think about things than fixing imbalanced schedules across the landscape of college football.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

All I know is, if they ever put me in charge of college football realignment, you're my first call as deputy. I'm going to spend my days on a warm weather beach with adult beverages by my side, knowing you'll get it all worked out.

Going back to those original 7 major conferences and then moving to their own sub division makes so much sense. If you have payouts merit based the bigger schools get the bulk of the money. Playoff is easy too. 7 champs plus 7 wildcards. That way the SEC could get 3-4 teams still.

Only potential issues...

-You leave out Cincy and UCF who are current P4
-You leave out the states of Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, Connecticut, Hawaii, Delaware.

I suppose you could add two additional conferences to make up for that.

Mountain West Conference (MWC):
Boise State, UNLV, Nevada, Colorado State, Air Force, New Mexico, Wyoming, San Diego St, Fresno St, Utah State

That adds Idaho, Nevada, a service academy, New Mexico, Wyoming. I don't think Hawaii is worth adding because of travel. It also adds the future PAC teams.

American Athletic Conference (AAC)
Cincy, UCF, USF, FAU, East Carolina, Memphis, Army, Navy, UConn, and then either Temple or JMU

That adds Connecticut and two service academies. I don't think Delaware is worth adding. Since this is a weaker conference, you could stick Louisville here and move either UConn or Temple to the Big East. That balances things out a little.

I think 70 teams in a subdivision is plenty but going to 90 is more inclusive.

 

[bnoro]

It's like not even in the top 10 dumbest things I've advocated for on this board. Let's not kid ourselves.

I think it's easier to change how pollsters and the committee think about things than fixing imbalanced schedules across the landscape of college football.

SMU shouldn't automatically be ranked over Bama. BYU shouldn't automatically be ranked over Clemson. It's just a ridiculous suggestion that would result in teams scheduling cupcakes out of conference.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

SMU shouldn't automatically be ranked over Bama. BYU shouldn't automatically be ranked over Clemson. It's just a ridiculous suggestion that would result in teams scheduling cupcakes out of conference.

Again, they "shouldn't" because you think they're better, but that line of thinking has no bearing on what actually happens on the field of play.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Nah. Ga Tech has 3 other losses, solid win not impressive. UNLV is ranked again so they're solid too, but I don't think they've beaten a team with a winning record and they got beat by the only ranked team they've played. Not impressive but solid. Ohio has a good record but got blown out by a 4-6 Kentucky team and lacks wins over any great teams. Another solid win.

This is what most of the fanbase asked for. We wanted a manageable schedule. That's what we got this year. The trade off with that is that we don't have any impressive win but we have a lot of really solid wins. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's not make it more than it is.

Ga Tech would've rolled into their Lville loss ranked in the teens, got knocked back into low 20s, won their next 2, been back in teens for notre dames sake, dropped back into 20s, out after VA tech loss and right back in after Miami win. They would be 8-3 and ranked right now if they didn't lose to Syracuse.

UNLV would have never dropped from ranked if they didn't lose to Syracuse. They would have been ranked in the teens and undefeated going into the Boise State game, maybe dropped to low 20s with that close loss and be back in the teens now vs 23.

Ohio is the only maybe but had they beat us week 1 and rolled into that Kentucky game 3-0 the pollsters probably have put them 24 or 25 just to say "SEC vs a ranked team!". Had they beaten us they'd be 9-2 now and almost certainly ranked once again.

This is the game the pollsters play and have done forever. If we were in SEC or big ten with an identical resume we'd be 5-10 higher.

Also that bad Stanford loss looks a bit less haggard after the beat Lville this past weekend. We should probably be ranked around 20-23rd currently

 

[sufandu]

Ga Tech would've rolled into their Lville loss ranked in the teens, got knocked back into low 20s, won their next 2, been back in teens for notre dames sake, dropped back into 20s, out after VA tech loss and right back in after Miami win. They would be 8-3 and ranked right now if they didn't lose to Syracuse.

UNLV would have never dropped from ranked if they didn't lose to Syracuse. They would have been ranked in the teens and undefeated going into the Boise State game, maybe dropped to low 20s with that close loss and be back in the teens now vs 23.

Ohio is the only maybe but had they beat us week 1 and rolled into that Kentucky game 3-0 the pollsters probably have put them 24 or 25 just to say "SEC vs a ranked team!". Had they beaten us they'd be 9-2 now and almost certainly ranked once again.

This is the game the pollsters play and have done forever. If we were in SEC or big ten with an identical resume we'd be 5-10 higher.

Also that bad Stanford loss looks a bit less haggard after the beat Lville this past weekend. We should probably be ranked around 20-23rd currently

None of that changes what I said. They all do have that one more loss that we gave them. They're good solid wins. Not impressive wins. Why isn't that good enough?

 

[upperdeck]

Lets say Expectations were high and SU started the season at #5

Lose to Stan. and probably fall to 13-15, then win 3 in a row and get back to about 8-12.
Lose to #19 pitt on the road. probably still around #18 , win, then lose to BC

I would probably with the exact same schedule be 20-25

So kind like ND #5. lose, then win a few and back up to #12

Where you start matters.

 

[ImperialOrange]

None of that changes what I said. They all do have that one more loss that we gave them. They're good solid wins. Not impressive wins. Why isn't that good enough?

valid question. why isn't it good enough for pollsters?

 

[wfschrec]

I dont know that 11-0 SU even gets into the top 10. Would like to think it would be so.

Why not? Indiana is and they haven’t played a ranked team. Hell they have only played one team thus far with a record better than .500 in Washington.

 

[sufandu]

valid question. why isn't it good enough for pollsters?

I think it is. We're getting votes. Other teams got more votes. When you've been irrelevant for forever you have to prove yourself a little more and everytime we've had a chance to do that this year we've stubbed our toe.

We wanted an easier schedule than what we've had in the past. That's what we've got. Up until now we haven't had any wins over a team like a 2017 Clemson to balance out bad losses to a crap Stanford team, a meh BC team, and a blowout loss to Pitt. That's what happens when you get a light schedule. You can't keep stubbing your toe when trying to earn respect.

Remove your orange colored glasses and view our year like someone with no rooting interest. I think you'll see a team that is in with a group of teams that can make an argument for being at the end of the top 25 but not one that has enough of an argument to have a huge beef. Beat UConn and we have a shot to squeak in. Beat Miami and we'll have that impressive win that should jump us inside the top 20.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I think it is. We're getting votes. Other teams got more votes. When you've been irrelevant for forever you have to prove yourself a little more and everytime we've had a chance to do that this year we've stubbed our toe.

We wanted an easier schedule than what we've had in the past. That's what we've got. Up until now we haven't had any wins over a team like a 2017 Clemson to balance out bad losses to a crap Stanford team, a meh BC team, and a blowout loss to Pitt. That's what happens when you get a light schedule. You can't keep stubbing your toe when trying to earn respect.

Remove your orange colored glasses and view our year like someone with no rooting interest. I think you'll see a team that is in with a group of teams that can make an argument for being at the end of the top 25 but not one that has enough of an argument to have a huge beef. Beat UConn and we have a shot to squeak in. Beat Miami and we'll have that impressive win that should jump us inside the top 20.

Compare our resume to Illinois who are currently ranked 25th with identical record and 0 wins over teams with a winning record.

Again, I understand what you're saying but some "other teams are getting more votes" is the point of contention here. What have Illinois ever done to be respected to higher degree than Syracuse?

No message board posts will change anything but preseason rankings as well as team name and conference bias do and have always carried too much sway

 

[OrangeFreek]

Made a bet with a co worker that if we beat uconn good we will be top 25 Hope i did not jinx it

 

[David321]

Compare our resume to Illinois who are currently ranked 25th with identical record and 0 wins over teams with a winning record.

Again, I understand what you're saying but some "other teams are getting more votes" is the point of contention here. What have Illinois ever done to be respected to higher degree than Syracuse?

No message board posts will change anything but preseason rankings as well as team name and conference bias do and have always carried too much sway

Illinois is ranked to justify Ped State's schedule.

 

[sufandu]

Compare our resume to Illinois who are currently ranked 25th with identical record and 0 wins over teams with a winning record.

Again, I understand what you're saying but some "other teams are getting more votes" is the point of contention here. What have Illinois ever done to be respected to higher degree than Syracuse?

No message board posts will change anything but preseason rankings as well as team name and conference bias do and have always carried too much sway

You're splitting hairs. They're 25 and we're essentially somewhere 26-30. Like I said, we're part of a group that can make an argument. So are they. Don't just look at the wins though. Look at the losses too. We got blown out by Pittsburgh. They got blown out by Oregon. Who's gonna get dinged more there? And like it or not, losing to Penn St isn't going to hurt them as much as any of our losses. Penn St. may be overrated, but even if they weren't, they'd still be top 15 at the very lowest, they're a 1 loss team. Their third loss is to a meh team with a winning record. Ours is to a bad Stanford team. Our losses are worse.

Yes, preseason assumptions carry some weight. And they should. Teams that are consistently good will be viewed as good until they give a reason to not be. See Michigan. Teams that are consistenty irrelevant have to prove themselves. You do that by beating at least one team that's respected and then following up by not having forehead palm losses or you do it by racking up a bunch of wins without stubbing your toe. The Pitt blowout and Stanford loss put us in a place where we've had to make up a bunch of ground and we don't have a chance at a statment win until Miami.

Given all of that, we should feel good that we are lumped in with a team like Illinois. And if we don't stub our toe today, we have a chance at getting a number by our name. Let's take care of business and have our starters resting on the bench in the 4th quarter. That's what teams that want to get noticed do when they play teams like UConn.

 

[Lukeyloo]

What are we thinking about our chances of being ranked for the Miami game? I’d certainly feel better about our odds if we didn’t give up that late TD making it a 1 score game.

I felt we needed to make a statement today and didn’t exactly do that. Also would have helped if Rutgirls didn’t blow it against #24 Illinois.. typical, that program is useless.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

We beat UNLV in their house and they are ranked. I agree with Fran.

 

[wiseman3]

Colorado getting smacked and may fall out of the rankings, we need BYU to pull this out against #21 Arizona State too. Coupled with #19 Army potentially losing to Notre Dame( i don't want to see this though, lol). We may have a shot

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Colorado getting smacked and may fall out of the rankings, we need BYU to pull this out against #21 Arizona State too. Coupled with #19 Army potentially losing to Notre Dame( i don't want to see this though, lol). We may have a shot

BYU used up all their late game magic this season I think.

 

[wiseman3]

BYU used up all their late game magic this season I think.

Unfortunately...if Army loses and Utah upsets Iowa State, we've got a shot

 

[CanadianSU]

Unlv being in over Syracuse is the qualm I have.