Frank

[OttoinGrotto]

64% of his FG attempts this season are 3-pointers, up from 41% in the two seasons prior. He also takes a fair number of long 2-pointers. That is a significant change in style of play, and I have to believe it's attributable to his physical health.

Ding ding ding ding!

 

[bpo57]

64% of his FG attempts this season are 3-pointers, up from 41% in the two seasons prior. He also takes a fair number of long 2-pointers. That is a significant change in style of play, and I have to believe it's attributable to his physical health.

You may be right and if so then why are we playing a guy that is so incapacitated? We're getting next to nothing out of him. Wouldn't it make more sense to substantially reduce his minutes?

 

[br801]

You may be right and if so then why are we playing a guy that is so incapacitated? We're getting next to nothing out of him. Wouldn't it make more sense to substantially reduce his minutes?

I'm not the coach, but he is getting fewer minutes and is clearly not being asked to play ironman minutes now. He has had good games and has played well in stretches, so really limiting his playing time or shutting him down doesn't look like a good option, at least not until it's obvious he doesn't have much on a given night.

 

[bpo57]

I'm not the coach, but he is getting fewer minutes and is clearly not being asked to play ironman minutes now. He has had good games and has played well in stretches, so really limiting his playing time or shutting him down doesn't look like a good option, at least not until it's obvious he doesn't have much on a given night.

Well there have been several nights where it's obvious he is not giving us much whether it's injury related or not. I would note that the HC has said a few times that there is nothing wrong with Frank from a health standpoint but either way it's a bad situation. I don't think there is any doubt that JB is showing some loyalty to Frank but imo it's to the detriment of the team.

 

[cuseincincy]

Frank would have made a nice 3rd guard on a good team. Too much has been expected of him that he has not been capable of. And...the ankle injury does not explain picking up your dribble 45 feet from the basket and throwing a loose half pass to a teammate 3 feet away with a defender in between. He does that almost every game. He's not now and never has been a point guard. The staff has to take some of this responsibility. Not counting Gbinije, they have had 4 other PG's during Frank's time at SU. Unfortunately 3 of those 4 have been swings and misses. Gillon is the only one any good and he kept Frank on the pine during his season. SU got nothing out of Joseph, Thorpe and Washington the past 3 seasons for one reason or another. Next year Carey, Goodine and Girard will all get a chance to be the primary ball handlers.

 

[orangecuse]

Well there have been several nights where it's obvious he is not giving us much whether it's injury related or not. I would note that the HC has said a few times that there is nothing wrong with Frank from a health standpoint but either way it's a bad situation. I don't think there is any doubt that JB is showing some loyalty to Frank but imo it's to the detriment of the team.

Besides JB saying Frank's health was fine and had nothing to do with his inability to "get by anyone" in his FSU post game presser, Frank himself stated in December in a game right after Christmas that he was 100% back and healthy. He had absolutely no reason to say that after a cupcake opponent type game, if it weren't true. But hey, people will believe what they want to believe to simply fit their own belief system. That's fine, but it doesn't make it fact...no matter how many dings, etc. one wishes to bestow as to imply that is absolutely the case.

 

[realorange]

How many times can you say the same things about Frank? Furthermore, what does it accomplish?

It's sad that Frank is not producing what most thought he could. I'm sure there is nobody that is upset with that fact more than Frank himself.

It's also sad that the bandwagon dump on Frank has continued most of this season. The negativity goes beyond any well thought expression of facts or feelings.

 

[br801]

Besides JB saying Frank's health was fine and had nothing to do with his inability to "get by anyone" in his FSU post game presser, Frank himself stated in December in a game right after Christmas that he was 100% back and healthy. He had absolutely no reason to say that after a cupcake opponent type game, if it weren't true. But hey, people will believe what they want to believe to simply fit their own belief system. That's fine, but it doesn't make it fact...no matter how many dings, etc. one wishes to bestow as to imply that is absolutely the case.

Players and coaches have been known to say things, and most are hesitant to use injury or illness as an excuse for performance. The fact is, Frank doesn't take the ball to the basket as aggressively or as frequently as he has in the past, and his lateral movement on the defensive end has not been consistently good this season. Everyone is free to speculate why this is so, but only Frank and the coaching staff have the answers.

 

[tbonezone]

funny how some here can blame our poor play early in the season on frank not playing and then blame our poor play down the stretch on frank playing.

 

[br801]

funny how some here can blame our poor play early in the season on frank not playing and then blame our poor play down the stretch on frank playing.

And you can blame everything, including global warming and the plight of the African elephant, on the coach.

 

[orangecuse]

Players and coaches have been known to say things, and most are hesitant to use injury or illness as an excuse for performance. The fact is, Frank doesn't take the ball to the basket as aggressively or as frequently as he has in the past, and his lateral movement on the defensive end has not been consistently good this season. Everyone is free to speculate why this is so, but only Frank and the coaching staff have the answers.

The fact is? Believe what you want, that is fine as you're entitled to your opinion, but it's just that, your opinion. Unless of course, you agree with me when I say as a matter of fact that he takes the ball to the hoop in the same exact manner in which he did last season. Here's another fact, he often picked up his dribble consistently last year as well, just as he has this year, especially when teams pressured the ball. Go back and look for yourself in those games we lost, all 12 of them prior to post season tournament play. Afterwards, you likely will come out with a different set of "facts" of him "taking the ball to the basket aggressively" with any kind of frequency.

 

[hungrychuck]

And you can blame everything, including global warming and the plight of the African elephant, on the coach.

Thus my reference to the Rutgers thread.

If this were early in the season, it might have been appropriate to have one Frank “airing of grievances” thread rather than a new one after each game.

Guess there was no way to know he wouldn’t improve.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

Thanks to this interesting tool, that has ACC conference data, I was able to look at Frank vs Buddy stats when they are on the court.

According to the tool, the team has played 336 minutes (garbage time excluded) with Frank and not Buddy and 164 minutes with Buddy and not Frank.

The team is much better with Frank in the game on defense allowing 97 points per possession, with Buddy on the court that rises to 110. Opponents don't turn the ball over more, or get fewer rebounds, when Frank is in, but their shooting is much worse.

Opponents have a 46% eFG with Frank on the court and 53% eFG with Buddy on the court. The biggest gap is 3p shooting, against Buddy the other team is making 41% of their three point attempts, against Frank only 32%. And with Frank on the court, opponents are taking half their shots from 3, up 9 points for the 41% they shoot from 3 with Buddy in. That suggests Frank is better at preventing teams getting into the lane to drive and taking tougher three point attempts.

There is a bigger difference on offense though, where Frank definitely appears to be slowing the scoring down. SU's points per possession go from 98 with Frank to 116 with Buddy. eFG drops 9 points with Frank from 56% to 47% and three point % drops from 41% to 32%. The most interesting, and almost certainly overlooked, is free throws. With Frank off the court and the ball in Battle's hands, the free throw rate (FTA/FGA) increases from 24% to 35%.

 

[br801]

Thanks to this interesting tool, that has ACC conference data, I was able to look at Frank vs Buddy stats when they are on the court.

According to the tool, the team has played 336 minutes (garbage time excluded) with Frank and not Buddy and 164 minutes with Buddy and not Frank.

The team is much better with Frank in the game on defense allowing 97 points per possession, with Buddy on the court that rises to 110. Opponents don't turn the ball over more, or get fewer rebounds, when Frank is in, but their shooting is much worse.

Opponents have a 46% eFG with Frank on the court and 53% eFG with Buddy on the court. The biggest gap is 3p shooting, against Buddy the other team is making 41% of their three point attempts, against Frank only 32%. And with Frank on the court, opponents are taking half their shots from 3, up 9 points for the 41% they shoot from 3 with Buddy in. That suggests Frank is better at preventing teams getting into the lane to drive and taking tougher three point attempts.

There is a bigger difference on offense though, where Frank definitely appears to be slowing the scoring down. SU's points per possession go from 98 with Frank to 116 with Buddy. eFG drops 9 points with Frank from 56% to 47% and three point % drops from 41% to 32%. The most interesting, and almost certainly overlooked, is free throws. With Frank off the court and the ball in Battle's hands, the free throw rate (FTA/FGA) increases from 24% to 35%.

Great stuff, thanks for sharing that. The disparity in the impact those two have on a game is even greater than the eye test would suggest. Pick your poison, it appears.

 

[Cuseball]

Thanks to this interesting tool, that has ACC conference data, I was able to look at Frank vs Buddy stats when they are on the court.

According to the tool, the team has played 336 minutes (garbage time excluded) with Frank and not Buddy and 164 minutes with Buddy and not Frank.

The team is much better with Frank in the game on defense allowing 97 points per possession, with Buddy on the court that rises to 110. Opponents don't turn the ball over more, or get fewer rebounds, when Frank is in, but their shooting is much worse.

Opponents have a 46% eFG with Frank on the court and 53% eFG with Buddy on the court. The biggest gap is 3p shooting, against Buddy the other team is making 41% of their three point attempts, against Frank only 32%. And with Frank on the court, opponents are taking half their shots from 3, up 9 points for the 41% they shoot from 3 with Buddy in. That suggests Frank is better at preventing teams getting into the lane to drive and taking tougher three point attempts.

There is a bigger difference on offense though, where Frank definitely appears to be slowing the scoring down. SU's points per possession go from 98 with Frank to 116 with Buddy. eFG drops 9 points with Frank from 56% to 47% and three point % drops from 41% to 32%. The most interesting, and almost certainly overlooked, is free throws. With Frank off the court and the ball in Battle's hands, the free throw rate (FTA/FGA) increases from 24% to 35%.

Awesome analysis and really interesting. Throughout the season, I have noticed that opposing guards are able to penetrate much more effectively when Buddy is in there. The stats certainly bear this out. This is going to be an area Buddy rally needs to work on in the future or our vaunted zone will be much less effective.

I don't think Girard is known as a great defender so imagine a scenario where Buddy and JGIII are the back court. I'm not sure they can play more than a couple minutes together. They better both be knocking down shots because they will be giving up points on defense.

Cuse!

 

[Brooky03]

Besides JB saying Frank's health was fine and had nothing to do with his inability to "get by anyone" in his FSU post game presser, Frank himself stated in December in a game right after Christmas that he was 100% back and healthy. He had absolutely no reason to say that after a cupcake opponent type game, if it weren't true. But hey, people will believe what they want to believe to simply fit their own belief system. That's fine, but it doesn't make it fact...no matter how many dings, etc. one wishes to bestow as to imply that is absolutely the case.

He had/has reason to say he's healthy and so does JB. You don't offer up injury info to opponents. Say you're 100% and let the opponent figure out if you're lying or not when they play you.

 

[sdcuseguy]

The fact is? Believe what you want, that is fine as you're entitled to your opinion, but it's just that, your opinion. Unless of course, you agree with me when I say as a matter of fact that he takes the ball to the hoop in the same exact manner in which he did last season. Here's another fact, he often picked up his dribble consistently last year as well, just as he has this year, especially when teams pressured the ball. Go back and look for yourself in those games we lost, all 12 of them prior to post season tournament play. Afterwards, you likely will come out with a different set of "facts" of him "taking the ball to the basket aggressively" with any kind of frequency.

I am not debating that he had games last year where he wasn't aggressive to the basket but I am certain he drove to the basket far more last year than this year. Even at the top of my head I can remember multiple instances last year where he drove to the basket and threw up 5 footers, many of which went in. This year, the ten foot area around the rim for him is like quicksand...he knows it is there but fears disaster in there for some reason...or he knows he just can't get to it.

 

[orangecuse]

I am not debating that he had games last year where he wasn't aggressive to the basket but I am certain he drove to the basket far more last year than this year. Even at the top of my head I can remember multiple instances last year where he drove to the basket and threw up 5 footers, many of which went in. This year, the ten foot area around the rim for him is like quicksand...he knows it is there but fears disaster in there for some reason...or he knows he just can't get to it.

He did have some floaters last year in games, and those buckets (from my recollection, and by no means is a statement of fact) the few in which he made, came against lessor opponents or against teams that didn't play aggressive in your face hounding ball pressure defense. In those games, and in our 14 losses last season, you'll see many if not identical parallels to our offensive struggles as this seasons, and it all starts at the PG spot. All one needs to do is revisit those losses. Most agree here that our defense was quite stellar last season, and the main reason we won as many as we did. Our offense last year was flat out putrid.

I'm not blaming Frank, he is what he is. One thing he's not and has never been, IMO, is a point guard, especially one required to play at the highest level in the ACC or P5. As another poster alluded to, Frank was "shoehorned" into that role by the coaching staff, so I place more of the onus on them as well, not Frank.