FSU vs The ACC

[kcsu]

"The P3"... SEC, B1G, & B12 is what they are going to argue... That the media rights negotiated by the ACC are now so paltry compared to the other 3 conferences mentioned, that the results of those negotiations amounted to professional negligence and a breach of contract by the ACC.

That breach should allow them to break their conference agreement without GOR penalty,

It's not an easy defense but succeeding is not out of the realm of possibilty.

I'm sure that the recent offers to the PAC will be brought up which shows that the ACC signed a fair deal.
Lots of people that I know that own, bought, sold property in areas like Skaneateles, Colorado, Nantucket, NYC, Chicago ect. Timing is everything. I dont know how FSU has a leg to stand on.

 

[Cusefan69]

"The P3"... SEC, B1G, & B12 is what they are going to argue... That the media rights negotiated by the ACC are now so paltry compared to the other 3 conferences mentioned, that the results of those negotiations amounted to professional negligence and a breach of contract by the ACC.

That breach should allow them to break their conference agreement without GOR penalty,

It's not an easy defense but succeeding is not out of the realm of possibilty.

Again I just don't see it. FSU and all teams were fully aware of what the market was and the differences between leagues 2016. No one held the proverbial gun to FSUs head and said sign the contract. FSU, fully informed signed off on the contract. I would wager that FSU was probably given primary consideration and input at the time with Clemson to make sure they were onboard given their history. I am sure there are ACC meeting minutes, meeting agenda, correspondence and proposal reviews that were done at the time that FSU was involved in as well. The only thing FSU is going to get out of this is a bill for legal fees.

 

[NKR1978]

"The P3"... SEC, B1G, & B12 is what they are going to argue... That the media rights negotiated by the ACC are now so paltry compared to the other 3 conferences mentioned, that the results of those negotiations amounted to professional negligence and a breach of contract by the ACC.

That breach should allow them to break their conference agreement without GOR penalty,

It's not an easy defense but succeeding is not out of the realm of possibilty.

The ACC payouts were known when FSU voluntarily signed the GOR in 2013 and 2016. How exactly is getting what the contract called for a breach?

 

[NKR1978]

Miami doesn't have mediocre academics

Miami has turned itself into one of the more selective schools in the country. People need to out of their 80s/90s mentality when it comes to some schools.

 

[OburgOrange]

 

[HRE Otto IV]

"The P3"... SEC, B1G, & B12 is what they are going to argue... That the media rights negotiated by the ACC are now so paltry compared to the other 3 conferences mentioned, that the results of those negotiations amounted to professional negligence and a breach of contract by the ACC.

That breach should allow them to break their conference agreement without GOR penalty,

It's not an easy defense but succeeding is not out of the realm of possibilty.

The B12 gets less in TV money than the ACC. For 2023-24 and 2024-25 they get $22M per team. Although without Texas and Oklahoma they will have an extra $44M to distribute. Starting in 2025-26 the yearly B12 average is $380M or $31.67 per team. But the first year will be less with the last year being more. Also in all of the above cases the B12 keeps some of that pie for themselves so the per team is actually inflated. The actual ACC per team payout for TV $ is expected to be over $31M this year. With it going up in the following years. So the ACC is nearly $10M more right now with it evening out starting in two years. Good luck FSU.

 

[RandomGuy]

No qb. No rb. No wr. What could go wrong?

I hope they run the Wildcat. ;-) Oline at QB. Heck. All Oline offense.

 

[kingtidge]

The B12 gets less in TV money than the ACC. For 2023-24 and 2024-25 they get $22M per team. Although without Texas and Oklahoma they will have an extra $44M to distribute. Starting in 2025-26 the yearly B12 average is $380M or $31.67 per team. But the first year will be less with the last year being more. Also in all of the above cases the B12 keeps some of that pie for themselves so the per team is actually inflated. The actual ACC per team payout for TV $ is expected to be over $31M this year. With it going up in the following years. So the ACC is nearly $10M more right now with it evening out starting in two years. Good luck FSU.

Breach of Contract due to professional negligence is a lot harder to prove than a standard breach of contract case. You also start to factor in the institutional sizes and alumni/fanbases sizes, eyes on screens based on that and ADI as a factorial, and the maths can be argued that the SEC and B1G rights should be significantly larger. Also, the Big12 numbers actually hurt FSU's case, as you pointed out.

I didn't say it was a strong legal argument... But I think that's what they are going to try. I expect it will fail.

 

[NKR1978]

Quite the culture they have down in Tally. You don't get what you want so you throw a tantrum and run away. Definite top down mentality there.

 

[NKR1978]

Breach of Contract due to professional negligence is a lot harder to prove than a standard breach of contract case. You also start to factor in the institutional sizes and alumni/fanbases sizes, eyes on screens based on that and ADI as a factorial, and the maths can be argued that the SEC and B1G rights should be significantly larger. Also, the Big12 numbers actually hurt FSU's case, as you pointed out.

I didn't say it was a strong legal argument... But I think that's what they are going to try. I expect it will fail.

I'm glad you elaborated! This makes much more sense.

FSU is going to throw a lot of nonsense at the wall hoping something sticks. I've seen some people say they have some legit arguments - but that's IF they're accurate presenting the facts of the case. If their timeline of events is accurate, there's some substance, but if they've relied on alternative facts, then it's weak. Given the number of typos and the general manner in which they've handled themselves, also stating that SMU has never been in a power conference, I have a feeling the ACC dotted its I's and crossed its T's when these things were drawn up.

 

[CousCuse]

I want FSU and Clemson to leave. That opens up the top spots which will be filled, hopefully one of them by Syracuse.

 

[DPCuse]

Here is my question. What does ESPN want to see happen with the ACC? Do they want to see it survive? Would they rather have FSU remain in the ACC to strengthen it? Or would they benefit by them moving to the Big XII or SEC? If FSU is headed to the BIG, then ESPN would no doubt try to keep them in the ACC or Big XII because they don’t control that league. If ESPN can’t afford the media rights for the SEC, Big XII and ACC then maybe they want to kill off the ACC and/or Big XII to save money.

 

[Hoo's That]

Again I just don't see it. FSU and all teams were fully aware of what the market was and the differences between leagues 2016. No one held the proverbial gun to FSUs head and said sign the contract. FSU, fully informed signed off on the contract. I would wager that FSU was probably given primary consideration and input at the time with Clemson to make sure they were onboard given their history. I am sure there are ACC meeting minutes, meeting agenda, correspondence and proposal reviews that were done at the time that FSU was involved in as well. The only thing FSU is going to get out of this is a bill for legal fees.

It has also been reported FSU was a leader in urging the others to agree to the GoR.

 

[Hoo's That]

Miami has turned itself into one of the more selective schools in the country. People need to out of their 80s/90s mentality when it comes to some schools.

^^This^^ Former Wahoo Ted Foote and Donna Shalala worked hard to raise their academics, much to the chagrin of "Da U" fans who felt that cut them off from a lot of recruits.

 

[RandomGuy]

Quite the culture they have down in Tally. You don't get what you want so you throw a tantrum and run away. Definite top down mentality there.

9 opt outs. I dont blame them if its draft prep. The way it is everywhere. Transfers and injuries. The other new reality. Bowls mean less. Even moreso, next year.

FSU being left out was a $$ shaft. I dont care if they clown them back.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'm sure that the recent offers to the PAC will be brought up which shows that the ACC signed a fair deal.
Lots of people that I know that own, bought, sold property in areas like Skaneateles, Colorado, Nantucket, NYC, Chicago ect. Timing is everything. I dont know how FSU has a leg to stand on.

They're doing it to see if the ACC will blink and at the very least, negotiate better terms.
If the ACC does blink it'll be the death knell, because certainly your boys WoadB, UNC, Clemson, etc. would want the same thing.
I'm thinking FSU has already found a landing spot w/ the caveat of " If you can find a way out, we'll take your application".
Meanwhile, all the ACC needs to do is hang tough, have no more outliers join the suit, and we'll be looking at a nice payday for the left-behinds and a network to boot.

 

[BigNastyJon]

^^This^^ Former Wahoo Ted Foote and Donna Shalala worked hard to raise their academics, much to the chagrin of "Da U" fans who felt that cut them off from a lot of recruits.

Side note: Donna Shalala is an SU Maxwell alum

 

[sutomcat]

It has also been reported FSU was a leader in urging the others to agree to the GoR.

And it has been reported FSU led the charge to extend the ESPN contract twice so they could get a small immediate increase in TV revenue, rather than wait for the contract to come close to expiring, when leverage is maximized.

FSU is the village idiot of the ACC.

'But WHY did you listen to us! What were you thinking!'

Discovery will not go well for them.

 

[orangefog]

And it has been reported FSU led the charge to extend the ESPN contract twice so they could get a small immediate increase in TV revenue, rather than wait for the contract to come close to expiring, when leverage is maximized.

FSU is the village idiot of the FSU.

'But WHY did you listen to us! What were you thinking!'

Discovery will not go well for them.

FSU is playing tic tac toe while most of the rest are playing checkers and some are playing chess.

 

[CousCuse]

They're doing it to see if the ACC will blink and at the very least, negotiate better terms.
If the ACC does blink it'll be the death knell, because certainly your boys WoadB, UNC, Clemson, etc. would want the same thing.
I'm thinking FSU has already found a landing spot w/ the caveat of " If you can find a way out, we'll take your application".
Meanwhile, all the ACC needs to do is hang tough, have no more outliers join the suit, and we'll be looking at a nice payday for the left-behinds and a network to boot.

If those teams left, the ACC will still have an auto bid to the playoffs and the revenues will stay the same for the duration of the media contract. Every team in the league should want them gone, it opens it wide for any team. Make them pat some exit fee that keeps the league intact, say $200 million.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Here is my question. What does ESPN want to see happen with the ACC? Do they want to see it survive? Would they rather have FSU remain in the ACC to strengthen it? Or would they benefit by them moving to the Big XII or SEC? If FSU is headed to the BIG, then ESPN would no doubt try to keep them in the ACC or Big XII because they don’t control that league. If ESPN can’t afford the media rights for the SEC, Big XII and ACC then maybe they want to kill off the ACC and/or Big XII to save money.

1. The ACC assets are cheaper in the ACC than they would be in the SEC. So ESPN has no incentive to move schools to the SEC.

2. Some of those ACC assets will end up in the B1G. ESPN has no incentive to lose those assets now.

3. ESPN has cost in the ACCN and does not want that to fail.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If those teams left, the ACC will still have an auto bid to the playoffs and the revenues will stay the same for the duration of the media contract. Every team in the league should want them gone, it opens it wide for any team. Make them pat some exit fee that keeps the league intact, say $200 million.

Sure we will. As of now the Top 6 champions get a bid. Are you telling me the ACC Champ is going to be the 7th best champ?

 

[CousCuse]

Sure we will. As of now the Top 6 champions get a bid. Are you telling me the ACC Champ is going to be the 7th best champ?

The P5 conferences get an auto bid plus the highest ranked G5 champion. The ACC will not lose its auto bid if FSU and Clemson leave which makes it more getable IMO. Those teams will leave at some point, if they leave now with the playoff format already set, it opens the door for any team in the ACC to get an easier route into the playoffs. Where is the downside?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Do we know if the PAC teams will get pro rata in the B12 year 1? We know the new B12 contract gets pro rata but there is one year left on the old contract. BYU, Cincinnati, UCF, and Houston did not get pro rata. They weren't P5 schools so maybe that is the difference.

Before the PAC schools
Eight leftover B12 schools were getting $33M total
New four B12 schools were getting $18M total
$66M was being left behind from Texas and Oklahoma

So do the PAC schools get $20M each in TV money and then split the other monies evenly. Or will they get the same $18M total that the four new schools got and then the old eight take a $750k hit each?

 

[DPCuse]

1. The ACC assets are cheaper in the ACC than they would be in the SEC. So ESPN has no incentive to move schools to the SEC.

2. Some of those ACC assets will end up in the B1G. ESPN has no incentive to lose those assets now.

3. ESPN has cost in the ACCN and does not want that to fail.

Agreed. So does ESPN “solve” this by ponying up some more to keep FSU in the ACC so they don’t lose them to the BIG? ESPN seems like they could be the big loser here if FSU jumps ship.