FSU vs The ACC

[ClkWrkOrange]

 

[BomberOrange]

Football is worth more than basketball, obviously. But Dook basketball, if paired with UNC, is worth more than Pitt football.

Whoa. Now you have our attention. A wvu twitter…errr X post from someone who worships JC. Cool.

 

[BomberOrange]

Why the love for Va Tech? Tradition is good. But arguably not much more than Cuse. What big TV market do they bring?

Agree. They’ve been semi good since 96. No history prior to that.

 

[longtimefan]

TV market is not the issue. VT is a land grant that fills a 66K stadium and is in state with a lot of talent and which borders NC and MD, both also with a lot of talent. All of that makes VT more attractive than private school Syracuse.

What happened to BE football should have made clear to BE people how major CFB is structured into a hierarchy. The more you try to frame major CFB with eyes that see with basketball or NFL eyes, the more you will be off mark.

UVa checks most of those boxes. Do you need 2 schools from the same state? (Can make the same points re NCSt.)

 

[DPCuse]

TV market is not the issue. VT is a land grant that fills a 66K stadium and is in state with a lot of talent and which borders NC and MD, both also with a lot of talent. All of that makes VT more attractive than private school Syracuse.

What happened to BE football should have made clear to BE people how major CFB is structured into a hierarchy. The more you try to frame major CFB with eyes that see with basketball or NFL eyes, the more you will be off mark.

TV market must matter or else why would Rutgers have been invited to Big 10? And Miami doesn’t draw well. ESPN and Fox are the ones paying the big bucks. I always thought it was about TV.

 

[JimBoston]

I would argue...

18. ND
17. FSU
16. Clemson
15. UNC
14. UVA
13. Miami
----
12. NC State
11. Virginia Tech
10. Louisville
9. Duke
8. Syracuse
7. Pitt
6. Georgia Tech
----
5. Cal
4. Stanford
3. BC
2. SMU
1. Wake

Pitt and GT should be ahead of Syracuse. Pitt has their Backyard Brawl rivalry with West Virginia and their rivalry with Penn State (and Notre Dame) which are valuable to the Big 12. Georgia Tech is in Atlanta which is very easy to get to with alums from all schools, is AAU, and it has an annual rivalry game with Georgia which is valuable.

Think about this for a second. The Big 10 added USC, UCLA, Washington and Oregon. The SEC added Texas and Oklahoma. The Big 12 added Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and Arizona St. The ACC added Cal, Stanford and SMU? That helps explain why the top ACC schools want to leave.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

Where is the mighty UNC on this chart? I thought they were one of the top dogs based upon a few pages back.

I stand corrected.

lol, UNC is playing at their ceiling while we have been awful and SU is still outdrawing them by 200k tv viewers.

Maybe UNC can stay with the other NC schools in the leftover ACC/AAC while we party in the northern/midwest/west superconference thats forming.

 

[Dcuse]

I'm assuming UNC/UVa to the Big 10. Clemson/Miami/FSU/GT to SEC. Then 4 of the rest of the ACC schools to the Big 12.

Always nice to have Georgia Tech fans visit the board.

 

[pokercuse08]

2 things set SMU way above BC: 1) SMU has proven it has boosters who can raise many millions of dollars to compete at the highest level of CFB; 2) the DFW TV market is loaded with top football talent, as is most of the rest of the state.

That's projecting forward. If it goes down right now, that's how I would rank it. If it's several years in the future, my list would change and SMU would be higher.

Why the love for Va Tech? Tradition is good. But arguably not much more than Cuse. What big TV market do they bring?

I think they are perceived as a better football program right now with a larger fanbase. I think we need a few years of winning football games to move past them on the list.

All about getting into the Atlanta market.

I don't think the remaining alignment will focus too much on TV markets, in the streaming world, size of the fanbase matters more.

TV market must matter or else why would Rutgers have been invited to Big 10? And Miami doesn’t draw well. ESPN and Fox are the ones paying the big bucks. I always thought it was about TV.

It mattered in those previous rounds but as cable TV dies off and streaming is on the rise, it's a different media world.

 

[pokercuse08]

Pitt and GT should be ahead of Syracuse. Pitt has their Backyard Brawl rivalry with West Virginia and their rivalry with Penn State (and Notre Dame) which are valuable to the Big 12. Georgia Tech is in Atlanta which is very easy to get to with alums from all schools, is AAU, and it has an annual rivalry game with Georgia which is valuable.

Pitt is a similar football brand to Syracuse right now, with a weaker basketball program, and an overlapping geographic footprint for the B1G, and Penn State won't want their in-state rivals in the same conference. Zero chance they land in the SEC.

Georgia Tech adds nothing to the SEC and since this is not about cable households anymore adds nothing to the B1G.

Regardless of whether it's the Big 12 or the ACC that's left as the leftovers conference, all three of these schools are in it.

 

[anomander]

Like i said i have no idea who actually has real information or not but if you look at any ACC/B10/B12 board and i won’t even mention SEC you’ll find that our perception isn’t nearly as high as it is here. I’m not lying when i say we are viewed as worse than a laughing stock and if we’re being honest what do we really bring to the table as of right now?

Since joining the conference we have 3 seasons with 4 or more wins. We have losing records to everyone but WF and VT. Take a look.

mcubed.net : NCAA Football : Conference Series Records : Syracuse vs. ACC

mcubed.net

That's projecting forward. If it goes down right now, that's how I would rank it. If it's several years in the future, my list would change and SMU would be higher.



I think they are perceived as a better football program right now with a larger fanbase. I think we need a few years of winning football games to move past them on the list.



I don't think the remaining alignment will focus too much on TV markets, in the streaming world, size of the fanbase matters more.



It mattered in those previous rounds but as cable TV dies off and streaming is on the rise, it's a different media world.

Not as much the market, but access to a fertile recruiting base, especially if it's B10

 

[CU44SE]

Cal and Stanford already got left behind by both the Big 10 and Big 12 (are we really still calling these conferences that?). How they can be above Syracuse is crazy.

BC and Wake forest are 2 programs that are on the bottom with no safety in sight. Small programs with no fan support.

Pitt, no one ever even thought about bringing Pitt anywhere. Only reason Pitt got into the ACC is because ACC wanted Syracuse and Pitt was a good program with the best academics. WVU and Louisville would have both been takes before Pitt if they had decent academics. Man I miss playing WVU. At some point academics are going to be thrown out the window. I still don’t understand how or why Conference affiliation has anything to do with academic affiliation. It’s not like they get a degree from the other schools or compete in some type of academic decathlon. Wild to me how that plays any rolls. Conferences are strictly for sports and used to be utilized so teams were close together.

Miami is a has been. How many years are we going to talk about this is Miami’s year. They can’t even fund a football stadium, they play an hour away from campus, the stadium is always empty. Once the Orange Bowl fell and the school completely changed the way they accepted and pursued students, Miami has not been the same. UF, FSU, UCF are all better future programs than Miami. Until Miami figures out its stadium situation. They are worthless.

Duke has been a joke in football and maybe has 3 relevant years. The only thing that gets them mentioned is Basketball and UNC wanting to maintain the rivalry. No one cares about Duke football. If this is going the way some have speculated. Football will be completely separate then all other sports. In that world, Duke does not have a home. That doesn’t mean that we have a home either. But the fan support, tv audience, history, location do not even compute when comparing the two schools. UNC and NC State are both far and away the better option. Not even a thought.

1- ND
2- FSU
3- Clemson
4- UNC
5- Virginia
6- Virginia Tech
7- NC State
8- Miami
9- Louisville
10- Syracuse
11- Georgia Tech
12- Duke
13- Pitt
14- Stanford
15- SMU
16- Cal
17- BC
18- Wake

 

[NKR1978]

Like i said i have no idea who actually has real information or not but if you look at any ACC/B10/B12 board and i won’t even mention SEC you’ll find that our perception isn’t nearly as high as it is here. I’m not lying when i say we are viewed as worse than a laughing stock and if we’re being honest what do we really bring to the table as of right now?

Since joining the conference we have 3 seasons with 4 or more wins. We have losing records to everyone but WF and VT. Take a look.

mcubed.net : NCAA Football : Conference Series Records : Syracuse vs. ACC

mcubed.net

I think you're right and that the confidence that we'll get a soft landing is a little too high. Our best bet is that we have pretty good TV viewership despite the weak football and that we are in a large state with no representation. Arizona, ASU, Colorado all have a ton of NY kids. I wouldn't be surprised if most other B12 schools have large alumni presence in the Northeast that they'd like a school close by and easy to get to.

New York is a big state with too many eyeballs for no one to want a physical presence here. And Rutgers doesn't count. No one in NYS is going to adopt Rutgers just because it's close.

 

[SURules]

I think you're right and that the confidence that we'll get a soft landing is a little too high. Our best bet is that we have pretty good TV viewership despite the weak football and that we are in a large state with no representation. Arizona, ASU, Colorado all have a ton of NY kids. I wouldn't be surprised if most other B12 schools have large alumni presence in the Northeast that they'd like a school close by and easy to get to.

New York is a big state with too many eyeballs for no one to want a physical presence here. And Rutgers doesn't count. No one in NYS is going to adopt Rutgers just because it's close.

Politicians will get involved at some point. It is inevitable. NYS has a tremendous amount of leverage and political clout.

 

[jgeorge322]

Imo this is terrible and will lead to the demise of the ACC, no doubt that Clemson will look to get out. The only hope is where do all these schools land? Having two 18 team leagues isn’t really ideal. It think Chip Kelly’s idea of one 64 team super league is the only hope.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Politicians will get involved at some point. It is inevitable. NYS has a tremendous amount of leverage and political clout.

I was at a large family reunion yesterday including a number of out of state transplants. There was a lively discussion about SU football (basketball too) and how even fans of other teams are talking about what is happening with Syracuse football. They said a number were very envious and were looking forward to seeing if Syracuse becomes a power to be reckoned with. One nephew said he was surprised how many people sought him out knowing he was a Syracuse diehard asking about his thoughts on all the changes. He said it shocked him how many non - fans were aware and excited to talk about SU football despite the horrible showing in the bowl game (he was expecting to get razzed big time). Thought it was pretty interesting and certainly uplifted the moods of the family diehards. A few I spoke to were open to contributing towards NIL for both basketball and football. Was an exciting and positive vibe around SU sports.

 

[anomander]

I think you're right and that the confidence that we'll get a soft landing is a little too high. Our best bet is that we have pretty good TV viewership despite the weak football and that we are in a large state with no representation. Arizona, ASU, Colorado all have a ton of NY kids. I wouldn't be surprised if most other B12 schools have large alumni presence in the Northeast that they'd like a school close by and easy to get to.

New York is a big state with too many eyeballs for no one to want a physical presence here. And Rutgers doesn't count. No one in NYS is going to adopt Rutgers just because it's close.

Those are my hopes as well. We would help form a nice eastern pod of basically the old BE.

 

[elimunelson]

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think this is true. I think only MLB has an anti-trust exemption and I think it mainly applies to the minor league system now. I don't see any legal reason why 40-50 universities couldn't form a new college athletics association and issue their own national championship, although their would likely be some political blowback or saber rattling when some major flagships got left out.

And moving to diff regions too. I think their exemption covers that too.

 

[elimunelson]

BC will be part of something going forward. At the end of the day the new world order of college football will not ignore the 6th largest tv market regardless of interest.

Syracuse too because of NY. It makes no sense and is super myopic thinking.

 

[elimunelson]

TV market must matter or else why would Rutgers have been invited to Big 10? And Miami doesn’t draw well. ESPN and Fox are the ones paying the big bucks. I always thought it was about TV.

To me if everything is in play w FSU pushing a nuclear button why would the crappy sec and big schools be comfortable

 

[JimBoston]

I stand corrected.

lol, UNC is playing at their ceiling while we have been awful and SU is still outdrawing them by 200k tv viewers.

Maybe UNC can stay with the other NC schools in the leftover ACC/AAC while we party in the northern/midwest/west superconference thats forming.

You have to adjust viewership by a number of factors:

1) Thursday or Friday night game on ESPN will have viewership numbers of 1 million + no matter the school.
2) Atlantic or Coastal? Syracuse plays FSU and Clemson every year, the highest viewership in the ACC. UNC does not. Syracuse's 2 highest viewed games last year were FSU (2.09 million) and Clemson (1.98 million). UNC's highest viewed games were South Carolina (3.4 million) and Miami (3.1 million).
3) Which network? ABC > ESPN > ESPN2 > CW > ESPNU
4) How many games are on ACCN or streamed? These don't count towards ratings and don't dilute a school's viewership.
5) Time slot and competition for a game.

 

[NKR1978]

Those are my hopes as well. We would help form a nice eastern pod of basically the old BE.

The more teams the SEC and B1G take, the better for us. I hope the SEC grabs VT, NCSU, GT, Miami, Clemson and FSU. The B1G can have UNC and Virginia, Calford (because they'll end up in the B1G, it just makes sense for them to want the two most important universities in the current P5). That would put us in a good position with Duke, Louisville and Pitt. If the B1G and SEC are stingy it becomes tougher for us.

Also we have Wildhack, who at the very least knows what TV executives want and how to place us in that conversation.

I'm sure there are some insiders who have genuine insight, but most people on reddit are thinking as fans. Other than FSU, Virginia and North Carolina I'm not sure there is an ACC team with as many fans as Syracuse. The part of NYS with just Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, Binghamton and Watertown must be about 4-4.5 million people? We're the defacto state university for sports in a region with at least 4 million people. That doesn't count the fact we have a significant number of fans downstate and in Buffalo. We have more potential fans than most of the Big 12. Other than the new Pac 12 members, we would probably have the biggest fanbase and have the biggest viewing potential than every Big 12 school.

The ACC really messed up by not grabbing WVIU, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Texas Tech, TCU, KU and K State after Texas and Oklahoma left. We'd be safe no matter what happened with FSU.

 

[NKR1978]

You have to adjust viewership by a number of factors:

1) Thursday or Friday night game on ESPN will have viewership numbers of 1 million + no matter the school.
2) Atlantic or Coastal? Syracuse plays FSU and Clemson every year, the highest viewership in the ACC. UNC does not. Syracuse's 2 highest viewed games last year were FSU (2.09 million) and Clemson (1.98 million). UNC's highest viewed games were South Carolina (3.4 million) and Miami (3.1 million).
3) Which network? ABC > ESPN > ESPN2 > CW > ESPNU
4) How many games are on ACCN or streamed? These don't count towards ratings and don't dilute a school's viewership.
5) Time slot and competition for a game.

I suppose we're lucky to have John Wildhack who likely knows more about how TV networks think than all but a handful of people in college sports.

 

[Qbobby]

Oh good. We haven't had a thread about making arbitrary list who is in the best/worst shape in the ACC in at least a month or two! I wonder if THIS one will make any difference.

 

[javadoc]

Those are my hopes as well. We would help form a nice eastern pod of basically the old BE.

I think this is more or less where it ends up