FSU vs The ACC

[wfschrec]

This just reinforces my view of the general scumbagginess of Florida State.

They are going to get boat raced by Alabama just for running their mouths this summer.

 

[HtownOrange]

They are going to get boat raced by Alabama just for running their mouths this summer.

Could not happen to a more appropriate HC and AD. The two may set back FSU a decade or more. FSU deserves it for hiring both.

 

[wfschrec]

Could happen to a more appropriate HC and AD. The two may set back FSU a decade or more. FSU deserves it for hiring both.

Not much of a fan of Castellanos either. I still look at the Norvells and Brian Kelly’s of the world and honestly think who the $@& actually wants to play for those douchebags?

 

[HtownOrange]

Not much of a fan of Castellanos either. I still look at the Norvells and Brian Kelly’s of the world and honestly think who the $@& actually wants to play for those douchebags?
[/QUOTE/]

Agreed.

It's amazing to see the overall good That Bobby Bowden did for FSU, creating a football power out of what was once a all girls school to a program run by over hyped individuals that actually believe the garbage they are spewing.

I think you can add Shady Schiano into the camp of d-bags whom no player should ever agree to play for.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

So if a school announces before the 2026 season that they are leaving after the 2027 season, they have roughly the last two years of their ACC payouts withheld. Not much of a cost for a school that can get a P2 offer. So 2028 might not have all of the current ACC teams still around.

A year later would cost roughly 3/4 of a payout and a full payout. So no real difference waiting a year.

Two years later would cost roughly 1/2 of a payout and a full payout withheld. Still not significant to wait till then.

Leaving for the 2035 season would be dumb. Either wait a year and leave for free, or leave a year earlier for the same price.

So we could see a team leave after the 2027-28 season. Could another so-so BBall season by UNC make them open to leave? Could the B1G offer Miami looking to start a chain reaction?

 

[HtownOrange]

So if a school announces before the 2026 season that they are leaving after the 2027 season, they have roughly the last two years of their ACC payouts withheld. Not much of a cost for a school that can get a P2 offer. So 2028 might not have all of the current ACC teams still around.

A year later would cost roughly 3/4 of a payout and a full payout. So no real difference waiting a year.

Two years later would cost roughly 1/2 of a payout and a full payout withheld. Still not significant to wait till then.

Leaving for the 2035 season would be dumb. Either wait a year and leave for free, or leave a year earlier for the same price.

So we could see a team leave after the 2027-28 season. Could another so-so BBall season by UNC make them open to leave? Could the B1G offer Miami looking to start a chain reaction?

Your analysis is on point. I reality, only two schools-prior to last fall- were in contention for leaving, Clemson and FSU. Clemson views the ACC as the easy path to the playoffs. They can live with a little less in annual TV revenue as they likely make up for it elsewhere. Remember that being mediocre or worse in the SEC or B1G may pay better but the bandwagon fans do not exist.

 

[DoctorBombay]

This is such a clear win for both FSU/Clemson you have to wonder if others let the commish know that they'd be leaving or joining the lawsuit as well.
For SU and those other presumably "left-behinds" to sign off on this, seems to indicate that they had little choice. The almighty GOR was not as ironclad as some (myself included), had assumed. Why else give up such a lopsided deal? JMHO

 

[Toga]

So if a school announces before the 2026 season that they are leaving after the 2027 season, they have roughly the last two years of their ACC payouts withheld. Not much of a cost for a school that can get a P2 offer. So 2028 might not have all of the current ACC teams still around.

A year later would cost roughly 3/4 of a payout and a full payout. So no real difference waiting a year.

Two years later would cost roughly 1/2 of a payout and a full payout withheld. Still not significant to wait till then.

Leaving for the 2035 season would be dumb. Either wait a year and leave for free, or leave a year earlier for the same price.

So we could see a team leave after the 2027-28 season. Could another so-so BBall season by UNC make them open to leave? Could the B1G offer Miami looking to start a chain reaction?

Are those exit fees in addition to loss of media rights for x number of years?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Are those exit fees in addition to loss of media rights for x number of years?

I believe the agreement was all costs to get out with media rights. In which case it is a huge win for anyone who wants to leave.

 

[orangecuse]

This is such a clear win for both FSU/Clemson you have to wonder if others let the commish know that they'd be leaving or joining the lawsuit as well.
For SU and those other presumably "left-behinds" to sign off on this, seems to indicate that they had little choice. The almighty GOR was not as ironclad as some (myself included), had assumed. Why else give up such a lopsided deal? JMHO

Yeah, or so it certainly appears. I do recall when Alsacs posted here, whom, IMO, was all over this topic as well as anyone, argued that it could be contested. He's an attorney to boot. Generally, he felt that, undoubtedly, the GOR could be challenged in court. However, with such uncertainty, lack of precedent, etc., if came down to who would be willing to put up such significant coin, etc. going through the process and rolling the dice so to speak.

 

[jgeorge322]

Yeah, or so it certainly appears. I do recall when Alsacs posted here, whom, IMO, was all over this topic as well as anyone, argued that it could be contested. He's an attorney to boot. Generally, he felt that, undoubtedly, the GOR could be challenged in court. However, with such uncertainty, lack of precedent, etc., if came down to who would be willing to put up such significant coin, etc. going through the process and rolling the dice so to speak.

You just described just about every legal dispute. Well done.

 

[orangecuse]

You just described just about every legal dispute. Well done.

Thank you! However, if "just about every" legal dispute was "iron clad" (the main premise) as alleged by numerous internet legal eagles, etc., there would be so much more time for those folks in the actual profession to play more golf.

 

[kirbivore]

This is such a clear win for both FSU/Clemson you have to wonder if others let the commish know that they'd be leaving or joining the lawsuit as well.
For SU and those other presumably "left-behinds" to sign off on this, seems to indicate that they had little choice. The almighty GOR was not as ironclad as some (myself included), had assumed. Why else give up such a lopsided deal? JMHO

As someone who's been ran over the coals for mocking the all powerful GOR this feels like redemption.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

As someone who's been ran over the coals for mocking the all powerful GOR this feels like redemption.

I don’t think it was the GOR being challenged as much as the ACC not wanting to dig in its heels, the ACC not wanting disgruntled members who felt held hostage, ESPN not caring if teams leave, ESPN not wanting to disclose business practices, and the questionable GOR extension.

If it was just the GOR in isolation, I think it would have held up.

 

[Cusester]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but it was my impression that the Acc leadership was confident in the Grant of Rights until FSU got the case moved to a much friendlier judge in Florida.

 

[HtownOrange]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but it was my impression that the Acc leadership was confident in the Grant of Rights until FSU got the case moved to a much friendlier judge in Florida.

The ACC fought on until ESPN dug in its heels, apparently threatening to not extend the deal through 2036. ESPN did not want their business practices exposed (HRE's point).

Historically, GORs are solid, the entertainment industry uses them extensively and have not been defeated. IP law is established , entertainment falls under IP.

FSU had the home field advantage while in the Florida courts. The NC courts favored the ACC. Federal courts likely would have favored the ACC. FSU's arguments are weak per virtually every iP and Contracts attorney. ESPN was the motivator for settlement not FSU's legal position.

 

[WoadBlue]

So if a school announces before the 2026 season that they are leaving after the 2027 season, they have roughly the last two years of their ACC payouts withheld. Not much of a cost for a school that can get a P2 offer. So 2028 might not have all of the current ACC teams still around.

A year later would cost roughly 3/4 of a payout and a full payout. So no real difference waiting a year.

Two years later would cost roughly 1/2 of a payout and a full payout withheld. Still not significant to wait till then.

Leaving for the 2035 season would be dumb. Either wait a year and leave for free, or leave a year earlier for the same price.

So we could see a team leave after the 2027-28 season. Could another so-so BBall season by UNC make them open to leave? Could the B1G offer Miami looking to start a chain reaction?

All of that and more is possible. Hence, if nothing is done to secure the ACC a better TV deal, enough better to keep up much closer to the projections for SEC and BT, then we will see the ACC gutted, however slowly.

The BT is still showing the Old Money always wins out when at least able to be close in quality. So the BT now needs only some better geography in CFB terms to remain permanently ahead of the SEC in TV money. SO the SEC is even more desperate to keep the BT from doing that, because the last thing the SEC can afford is having the BT planted in the South with more than a couple schools.

I have idea whether the plan was devised by the SEWC with ESPN convinced, or if ESPN devised it and the SEC easily agreed, but ESPN since it signed the SEC fully has been badmouthing the ACCc as often as possible and making it clear in rather public ways that it thunks the ACC is worth nothing compared to SEC. That makes the ACC unstable. It makes sense from an ESPN stance only if you want the ACC diminished and expect its top values to TV to join the SEC.

I want the ACC saved, but not at the expense of UNC having to cut a bunch of sports to compete in football and basketball. Even UVA administrators will fairly soon get to that point and be open to leaving for BT or SEC if the offer is right (which will feature how many ACC schools, and which ones, get offered).

If between them the SEC and BT get enough of the ACC (no current Big 12 member is required for that to happen) , they will then move forward to close their 2 league Top Tier of CB.

 

[orange79]

All of that and more is possible. Hence, if nothing is done to secure the ACC a better TV deal, enough better to keep up much closer to the projections for SEC and BT, then we will see the ACC gutted, however slowly.

The BT is still showing the Old Money always wins out when at least able to be close in quality. So the BT now needs only some better geography in CFB terms to remain permanently ahead of the SEC in TV money. SO the SEC is even more desperate to keep the BT from doing that, because the last thing the SEC can afford is having the BT planted in the South with more than a couple schools.

I have idea whether the plan was devised by the SEWC with ESPN convinced, or if ESPN devised it and the SEC easily agreed, but ESPN since it signed the SEC fully has been badmouthing the ACCc as often as possible and making it clear in rather public ways that it thunks the ACC is worth nothing compared to SEC. That makes the ACC unstable. It makes sense from an ESPN stance only if you want the ACC diminished and expect its top values to TV to join the SEC.

I want the ACC saved, but not at the expense of UNC having to cut a bunch of sports to compete in football and basketball. Even UVA administrators will fairly soon get to that point and be open to leaving for BT or SEC if the offer is right (which will feature how many ACC schools, and which ones, get offered).

If between them the SEC and BT get enough of the ACC (no current Big 12 member is required for that to happen) , they will then move forward to close their 2 league Top Tier of CB.

You just SO want the ACC to be killed. Go ahead and admit it, and we can move on.

"...but ESPN since it signed the SEC fully has been badmouthing the ACCc as often as possible and making it clear in rather public ways that it thunks the ACC is worth nothing compared to SEC."

Please provide cites and examples of this. And then explain to us mere mortals as to why ESPN would want to kill a conference network it owns fully half of.

You lose more credibility each and every time you post. It's really quite amazing.

 

[orangefog]

You just SO want the ACC to be killed. Go ahead and admit it, and we can move on.

"...but ESPN since it signed the SEC fully has been badmouthing the ACCc as often as possible and making it clear in rather public ways that it thunks the ACC is worth nothing compared to SEC."

Please provide cites and examples of this. And then explain to us mere mortals as to why ESPN would want to kill a conference network it owns fully half of.

You lose more credibility each and every time you post. It's really quite amazing.

 

[HtownOrange]

You just SO want the ACC to be killed. Go ahead and admit it, and we can move on.

"...but ESPN since it signed the SEC fully has been badmouthing the ACCc as often as possible and making it clear in rather public ways that it thunks the ACC is worth nothing compared to SEC."

Please provide cites and examples of this. And then explain to us mere mortals as to why ESPN would want to kill a conference network it owns fully half of.

You lose more credibility each and every time you post. It's really quite amazing.

Spot on. I'd also appreciate the financials to support ESPN's alleged position of destroying a money making venture, a rare entity within the Mickey Mouse network.

 

[wfschrec]

You just SO want the ACC to be killed. Go ahead and admit it, and we can move on.

"...but ESPN since it signed the SEC fully has been badmouthing the ACCc as often as possible and making it clear in rather public ways that it thunks the ACC is worth nothing compared to SEC."

Please provide cites and examples of this. And then explain to us mere mortals as to why ESPN would want to kill a conference network it owns fully half of.

You lose more credibility each and every time you post. It's really quite amazing.

You can't lose what you never had.

 

[kirbivore]

I don’t think it was the GOR being challenged as much as the ACC not wanting to dig in its heels, the ACC not wanting disgruntled members who felt held hostage, ESPN not caring if teams leave, ESPN not wanting to disclose business practices, and the questionable GOR extension.

If it was just the GOR in isolation, I think it would have held up.

In the end I look at SU's situation like Sarah Connor viewed the world in Terminator 2. SU is already dead.

 

[orangecuse]

You just SO want the ACC to be killed. Go ahead and admit it, and we can move on.

"...but ESPN since it signed the SEC fully has been badmouthing the ACCc as often as possible and making it clear in rather public ways that it thunks the ACC is worth nothing compared to SEC."

Please provide cites and examples of this. And then explain to us mere mortals as to why ESPN would want to kill a conference network it owns fully half of.

You lose more credibility each and every time you post. It's really quite amazing.

Diplomatically, I disagree. And, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. It's quite apparent that 'WoadBlue' is far from a board favorite, and it's easy for the usual suspects around here to throw shade, get personal, etc. rather than simply debate the subject matter, etc. That's why it's typically never good business practice to hire "family" members, as emotion, and other related factors easily can get in the way of being honest and objective.

FWIW, my view of his takes are solid, but as the 'ol saying goes; "the truth hurts."

Why would an innate member (and fans of same) such as UNC, that has always carried the most power and clout in the conference ever want to give that up to become someone else's bitch (as would be the case in the B1G) to OSU and UM unless it was 100% survival based?

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

Woadblue throws “Pity-Shade” at Syracuse in every other post he makes coupled with endless prognostications of our program’s doom. While an otherwise respectful poster who does make some valid points, he deserves the flak he gets.

 

[Tip Hill]

A question to the people that follow conference expansion more than I do ……

Is there any realistic chance that our beloved SU ends up at a big boy table with either the B10 or SEC ?