FSU vs The ACC

[orange79]

New Jersey!?? Not a chance!

Reminds me of a Con Law class I took at SU. Big lecture room in Maxwell. Prof was wrapping class on the first day and closed with:

“Now, as we move forward I need a little information to plan the semester. I have to decide how to balance complex material with the capability of my audience to comprehend it. So how much do I need to water down the material to just basics? Should I be avoiding technical terminology and try to use just one syllable words? Should I assign reading that has lots of pictures and little verbiage? I guess what I really need to know, by show of hands, how many of you are from New Jersey?”

I think half of the students dropped the class after that!

Sawyer?

 

[Consigliere]

Sawyer?

Yes!!!!

 

[Scooch]

Not only is viewership driven by matchup, it’s also driven by time slot and network.

Games on ABC in the late afternoon or prime time are going to draw bigger audiences than noon games on ESPN2. Even if the latter is a “better” game.

SU’s ratings this past season suffered because we had generally crummy network placement. The more we win the more that will improve.

 

[Moontan]

The more we win the more that will improve.

The more SEC teams we play the more that will improve.

The SEC currently owns the ESPN/Disney networks. Other than Thursday or Friday night games, it'll be hard to get the necessary viewer numbers unless we're a top-10 team or are playing against an SEC or B1G team.

 

[SU68]

Yes!!!!

 

[Hoo's That]

Was waiting for your victory lap, haha.

Too many boards, including mine, have as their motto, "When in worry or in doubt, run in circles, scream, and shout."

 

[orangecuse]

Yeah, if the legal footing was sound for the ACC, then the leverage came from elsewhere and ESPN could very well have been putting on the pressure to settle.

I read the same that the legal footing was solid but that the conference was also worried about the court venue location/judges involved.

 

[Scooch]

The more SEC teams we play the more that will improve.

The SEC currently owns the ESPN/Disney networks. Other than Thursday or Friday night games, it'll be hard to get the necessary viewer numbers unless we're a top-10 team or are playing against an SEC or B1G team.

Ehhhh, not really. We’re stacking our viewership up against other ACC teams. Four of them have an annual series with an SEC team and the other 14 don’t.

Sure, GaTech playing Georgia is a huge boost. But we can garner large audiences playing B1G and ACC games on the broadcast networks. That requires us being good, because we’re a draw when we’re good.

I wouldn’t sweat playing SEC teams all that much.

 

[WoadBlue]

Ehhhh, not really. We’re stacking our viewership up against other ACC teams. Four of them have an annual series with an SEC team and the other 14 don’t.

Sure, GaTech playing Georgia is a huge boost. But we can garner large audiences playing B1G and ACC games on the broadcast networks. That requires us being good, because we’re a draw when we’re good.

I wouldn’t sweat playing SEC teams all that much.

Problems for ACC league members in drawing large numbers of fans to watch on TV:

1. Having league members that simply add next to nothing, or literally nothing (Wake especially), to the ACC football viewership pool. For example, Wake vs Cuse or Pitt or UVA or UNC or Dook or Cal is always going to draw a smaller TV audience (often considerably smaller) than WVU vs those same ACC schools.

2. #1 being central to the fact that the ACC is not THE leading CFB TV draw in any region of the country. SoCar in the SEC means that many years the SEC outdraws ACC football in the Charlotte TV market.

3. Far too many OOC games vs. 1AA (FCS) teams and far too many G5 nobodies.

4. Far too little willingness to give up something to get OOC foes that will draw HUGE TV numbers.

 

[Scooch]

Problems for ACC league members in drawing large numbers of fans to watch on TV:

1. Having league members that simply add next to nothing, or literally nothing (Wake especially), to the ACC football viewership pool. For example, Wake vs Cuse or Pitt or UVA or UNC or Dook or Cal is always going to draw a smaller TV audience (often considerably smaller) than WVU vs those same ACC schools.

2. #1 being central to the fact that the ACC is not THE leading CFB TV draw in any region of the country. SoCar in the SEC means that many years the SEC outdraws ACC football in the Charlotte TV market.

3. Far too many OOC games vs. 1AA (FCS) teams and far too many G5 nobodies.

4. Far too little willingness to give up something to get OOC foes that will draw HUGE TV numbers.

Again, the ACC is not comparing its teams to the ratings of SEC and B1G teams for its new revenue calculation. It is comparing ACC teams to each other. So everyone has a choice to make in regards to scheduling. If they want to go light they may suffer some revenue consequences.

But, again, its ACC vs. ACC, not vs. anyone else.

 

[sufandu]

Again, the ACC is not comparing its teams to the ratings of SEC and B1G teams for its new revenue calculation. It is comparing ACC teams to each other. So everyone has a choice to make in regards to scheduling. If they want to go light they may suffer some revenue consequences.

But, again, its ACC vs. ACC, not vs. anyone else.

But ACC vs other conferences helps determine how much networks are willing pay the conference and how much the networks want to market the conference. It's something that shouldn't be ignored.

 

[Hoo's That]

Problems for ACC league members in drawing large numbers of fans to watch on TV:

{snip}

3. Far too many OOC games vs. 1AA (FCS) teams and far too many G5 nobodies.

4. Far too little willingness to give up something to get OOC foes that will draw HUGE TV numbers.

On #3, as much as I wish these games were either banned or somehow limited on counting for bowl eligibility (only 2 of every 3 years; 3 out of 5), there have been strong intimations from the VA legislature that a move by UVa and VPI to voluntarily reduce the number of games against the VA FCS teams would get a very chilly reception in Richmond.

On #4, I see the problem on our board All. The. Time. The announcement that we signed for a series against Washington State was hated by a majority of our fans. They want no part of playing any OOC team that they "can't drive to the away game." We played Oregon, USC, and UCLA and they screamed for having a line drawn at the Mississippi River (which they deemed a great concession on their part from their preference, the western slopes of the Appalachians).

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

New Jersey!?? Not a chance!

Reminds me of a Con Law class I took at SU. Big lecture room in Maxwell. Prof was wrapping class on the first day and closed with:

“Now, as we move forward I need a little information to plan the semester. I have to decide how to balance complex material with the capability of my audience to comprehend it. So how much do I need to water down the material to just basics? Should I be avoiding technical terminology and try to use just one syllable words? Should I assign reading that has lots of pictures and little verbiage? I guess what I really need to know, by show of hands, how many of you are from New Jersey?”

I think half of the students dropped the class after that!

Horrible regional stereotyping! (I would have asked how many were from PA).

 

[WoadBlue]

Not only is viewership driven by matchup, it’s also driven by time slot and network.

Games on ABC in the late afternoon or prime time are going to draw bigger audiences than noon games on ESPN2. Even if the latter is a “better” game.

SU’s ratings this past season suffered because we had generally crummy network placement. The more we win the more that will improve.

And it is a given that network execs not being ed will choose from among those at their disposal to show the one most obviously likely to draw the largest viewership on ABC at 3:30 ET/2:30 CT. That could change if the metrics they have show them that another matchup they have that day always does better in the afternoon than in PrimeTime, in which case ABC might flip that pair of games.

When CBS had that 1 SEC game and showed it at 3:30 ET/2:30 CT, all kinds of geniuses concluded that meant that CBS showing games at that time was THE key to large numbers of TVs viewers for those games. If that were true then CBS could show Cuse vs BC and then UConn Vs Rutgers and then Temple vs Wake in back to back to back weeks at that optimum time and see no discernible drop off in viewer numbers from the SEC game days.

It is neither the network nor the time slot that makes for the large viewing audience; it is the teams playing. And as common sense would dictate, invariably teams that have larger average attendance and greater ease in selling large numbers of tickets to Away games draw the most fans to TV. And those general fans of CFB across the nation tend to find state flagship and/or land grant schools and schools from either the midwest or South to be the most interesting or best, at least for their viewing pleasure.

Any network or league that fights against or tries to ignore that reality is going to come up short.

 

[WoadBlue]

On #3, as much as I wish these games were either banned or somehow limited on counting for bowl eligibility (only 2 of every 3 years; 3 out of 5), there have been strong intimations from the VA legislature that a move by UVa and VPI to voluntarily reduce the number of games against the VA FCS teams would get a very chilly reception in Richmond.

On #4, I see the problem on our board All. The. Time. The announcement that we signed for a series against Washington State was hated by a majority of our fans. They want no part of playing any OOC team that they "can't drive to the away game." We played Oregon, USC, and UCLA and they screamed for having a line drawn at the Mississippi River (which they deemed a great concession on their part from their preference, the western slopes of the Appalachians).

AS with the UNC version of such fans, they are living in a world of pre-WW2, or maybe just pre-interstate and easy air travel. Their thinking has nothing to do with how to have a truly successful revenue sports team in today's world. That is all about Home attendance and especially TV viewers. Literally nobody gives a chicken's shot about UVA vs some dinky school that UVA played quite often before WW2. Same reason that BC's top rival of all time, Holy Cross, harms BC.

At some point as SEC and BT keep pushing this, UVA may have to decide that it wants to go back to how it was before the ACC was founded: having dropped out ofd th4e SoCon, it was indeed and playing UNC and Dook and Wake all the time, but not playing Clemson or SoCar at all, or even Maryland annually, while loading up on William&Mary, Richmond, and VMI.

For me, the funny part of your response to my #4 is that back when Vandy beat UVA for the CWS, my bother, huge Vandy fan who was in Omaha, sad that the Vandy people next to him, having learned that I am a UNC grad and knowing of the UNC-UVA ties, asked my brother why UVA people tend to see Vandy as being almost on another continent.

Well, people far away from the western slopes of the Appalachians matter in TV viewing, and either the ACC gets more of it, or the ACC will die at some point.

 

[orange79]

SyracuseFan.com: come for the mocking of FSU, stay for the UVa-on-UNC violence.

 

[Hoo's That]

AS with the UNC version of such fans, they are living in a world of pre-WW2, or maybe just pre-interstate and easy air travel. Their thinking has nothing to do with how to have a truly successful revenue sports team in today's world. That is all about Home attendance and especially TV viewers. Literally nobody gives a chicken's shot about UVA vs some dinky school that UVA played quite often before WW2. Same reason that BC's top rival of all time, Holy Cross, harms BC.

At some point as SEC and BT keep pushing this, UVA may have to decide that it wants to go back to how it was before the ACC was founded: having dropped out ofd th4e SoCon, it was indeed and playing UNC and Dook and Wake all the time, but not playing Clemson or SoCar at all, or even Maryland annually, while loading up on William&Mary, Richmond, and VMI.

For me, the funny part of your response to my #4 is that back when Vandy beat UVA for the CWS, my bother, huge Vandy fan who was in Omaha, sad that the Vandy people next to him, having learned that I am a UNC grad and knowing of the UNC-UVA ties, asked my brother why UVA people tend to see Vandy as being almost on another continent.

Well, people far away from the western slopes of the Appalachians matter in TV viewing, and either the ACC gets more of it, or the ACC will die at some point.

"You're preaching to the choir, Reverend." While the timing was probably poor, I thought it was the best thing UVa ever did scheduling-wise when we played Oregon, USC-w, and UCLA home-and-home. Although I did get to see us beat up Ricky Williams' Longhorns in a C'ville downpour.

Personally, I think it's that the majority of the people who say that simply doesn't want to pay for a hotel room. When our chance to play in SB finally came, I immediately applied for a ticket (Ms. Hoo's That is a Domer) thinking there would be such a demand from the season ticket holders that I would get shut out. Nope. Got 2 with no problem. I've got a picture of me there with Touchdown Jesus in the background. I'm kinda bummed that we play Cal out west instead of Stanford this year. Ms. Hoo's That's best friend is a Stanford grad living in The Bay Area and I could convince her to visit her friend while her husband and I went to the game. But that's me and far too few of our fans.

 

[longtimefan]

"You're preaching to the choir, Reverend." While the timing was probably poor, I thought it was the best thing UVa ever did scheduling-wise when we played Oregon, USC-w, and UCLA home-and-home. Although I did get to see us beat up Ricky Williams' Longhorns in a C'ville downpour.

Personally, I think it's that the majority of the people who say that simply doesn't want to pay for a hotel room. When our chance to play in SB finally came, I immediately applied for a ticket (Ms. Hoo's That is a Domer) thinking there would be such a demand from the season ticket holders that I would get shut out. Nope. Got 2 with no problem. I've got a picture of me there with Touchdown Jesus in the background. I'm kinda bummed that we play Cal out west instead of Stanford this year. Ms. Hoo's That's best friend is a Stanford grad living in The Bay Area and I could convince her to visit her friend while her husband and I went to the game. But that's me and far too few of our fans.

Bring your hiking boots to Berkeley. It's a substantial steep climb to the top of Memorial Stadium, where the main (only?) concourse is located.

 

[richmondcuse03]

And it is a given that network execs not being ed will choose from among those at their disposal to show the one most obviously likely to draw the largest viewership on ABC at 3:30 ET/2:30 CT. That could change if the metrics they have show them that another matchup they have that day always does better in the afternoon than in PrimeTime, in which case ABC might flip that pair of games.

When CBS had that 1 SEC game and showed it at 3:30 ET/2:30 CT, all kinds of geniuses concluded that meant that CBS showing games at that time was THE key to large numbers of TVs viewers for those games. If that were true then CBS could show Cuse vs BC and then UConn Vs Rutgers and then Temple vs Wake in back to back to back weeks at that optimum time and see no discernible drop off in viewer numbers from the SEC game days.

It is neither the network nor the time slot that makes for the large viewing audience; it is the teams playing. And as common sense would dictate, invariably teams that have larger average attendance and greater ease in selling large numbers of tickets to Away games draw the most fans to TV. And those general fans of CFB across the nation tend to find state flagship and/or land grant schools and schools from either the midwest or South to be the most interesting or best, at least for their viewing pleasure.

Any network or league that fights against or tries to ignore that reality is going to come up short.

Continually fighting with Scooch, who knows more about this topic than you ever will, is an odd one.

 

[TexanMark]

"You're preaching to the choir, Reverend." While the timing was probably poor, I thought it was the best thing UVa ever did scheduling-wise when we played Oregon, USC-w, and UCLA home-and-home. Although I did get to see us beat up Ricky Williams' Longhorns in a C'ville downpour.

Personally, I think it's that the majority of the people who say that simply doesn't want to pay for a hotel room. When our chance to play in SB finally came, I immediately applied for a ticket (Ms. Hoo's That is a Domer) thinking there would be such a demand from the season ticket holders that I would get shut out. Nope. Got 2 with no problem. I've got a picture of me there with Touchdown Jesus in the background. I'm kinda bummed that we play Cal out west instead of Stanford this year. Ms. Hoo's That's best friend is a Stanford grad living in The Bay Area and I could convince her to visit her friend while her husband and I went to the game. But that's me and far too few of our fans.

The vast majority of Cuse fans traveled to UNLV last year but those that went to Cal loved it

My writeup about visiting Cal for games below

Syracuse Football: 2024 road trip rankings from TexanMark

Which is the best Orange trip of the season?

www.nunesmagician.com

 

[WoadBlue]

Again, the ACC is not comparing its teams to the ratings of SEC and B1G teams for its new revenue calculation. It is comparing ACC teams to each other. So everyone has a choice to make in regards to scheduling. If they want to go light they may suffer some revenue consequences.

But, again, its ACC vs. ACC, not vs. anyone else.

Which would be best for Syracuse as well as any other ACC team: (A) ACC TV money total of 750 million or (B) ACC TV money total of 400 million?

That is the big important issue, not how BC might get another 2 mil at the expense of FSU or Clemson. And for the ACC to get the big bucks, it must begin to draw larger numbers of viewers not just for games by a few members, but across the league.

And when each member ups its OOC quality of games, the league will draw more and more fans to watch. That will deliver bigger money. And the final piece is that Wake vs anybody will always draw fewer viewers than WVU or Utah or Arizona ST vs. anybody.

 

[orangefog]

Which would be best for Syracuse as well as any other ACC team: (A) ACC TV money total of 750 million or (B) ACC TV money total of 400 million?

That is the big important issue, not how BC might get another 2 mil at the expense of FSU or Clemson. And for the ACC to get the big bucks, it must begin to draw larger numbers of viewers not just for games by a few members, but across the league.

And when each member ups its OOC quality of games, the league will draw more and more fans to watch. That will deliver bigger money. And the final piece is that Wake vs anybody will always draw fewer viewers than WVU or Utah or Arizona ST vs. anybody.

You guys should draw a lot of eyes thanks to BB and his ho.

 

[WoadBlue]

You guys should draw a lot of eyes thanks to BB and his ho.

Belichick will draw viewers, no doubt. But UNC must play people who matter, or those viewers will start going away. 1AA teams do NOT matter. Neither do half or more of the G5. Wake does not matter. Wake is nothing more than Rice that got lucky because the ACC was better run than the SWC and did not have Texas.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Belichick will draw viewers, no doubt. But UNC must play people who matter, or those viewers will start going away. 1AA teams do NOT matter. Neither do half or more of the G5. Wake does not matter. Wake is nothing more than Rice that got lucky because the ACC was better run than the SWC and did not have Texas.

This is like yelling at the tide. Everyone plays a couple punching bags every year. Literally everyone.

 

[HtownOrange]

This is like yelling at the tide. Everyone plays a couple punching bags every year. Literally everyone.

Woad forgets the B1G has Rutgers and Northwestern. Even UNL has been a body bag game since they joined. The SEC has Vandy and Kentucky, even Mizzou and the Mississippi schools aren't anything to brag about. Built in tomato soup cans for the big boys, all conferences have them. Sure, they may have a good year now and then but rarely do they threaten the powers that be in the conference.