Game 5 Depth Chart / Game Notes | Clemson

[Dmcnabbrules]

Huh?

Three Qb’s, starting TE, starting RT before he got hurt, 2nd TB, 4 of 5 starting DBs, most of the 2nd string DBs, co-2nd NT.

And then there are JUCO transfers Bradford, Reed. And More is in the wings.

Huh?
Clark, Barron and Wilson signed with Syracuse out of high school.

 

[bigmike]

 

[GoSU96]

I’m specifically referencing since NIL has gone into effect , which for the most part was this past offseason.

Also, i would count JUCO’s how we always did, as part of your recruiting class, which even so, only Reed has had an impact, but that’s different from what i’m referring to.

Bradford is Juco

 

[GoSU96]

Huh?
Clark, Barron and Wilson signed with Syracuse out of high school.

Clark is from Rutgers. Miscounted, didn’t refer to the roster. 3 of 5.

 

[SUskibum]

I’m specifically referencing since NIL has gone into effect , which for the most part was this past offseason.

Also, i would count JUCO’s how we always did, as part of your recruiting class, which even so, only Reed has had an impact, but that’s different from what i’m referring to.

You have to admit you are choosing (I won't say cherry picking) a particular time period that makes it very easy to see what we lost (current production) and makes it very hard to see what we gained (most of the visible gains came from previous transfers) because the current crop may need a half season or more to make an impact

Also Bradford and I Jones were JUCOs that we're pretty happy to have I would think

 

[RF2044]

Huh?

Three Qb’s, starting TE, starting LG, starting RT before he got hurt, 2nd TB, 4 of 5 starting DBs, most of the 2nd string DBs, co-2nd NT.

And then there are JUCO transfers Bradford, Reed. And More is in the wings.

Shrader (and both backups)
Bleich
Wohlabaugh
More
Villari

Clark/Cinco
Simmons
I Johnson

Stonefoot
Adams

Anomander is a fantastic poster, but I've disagreed with him about the value proposition the portal has yielded for SU all off-season.

I understand why some conservatively projected that we had net losses, but neither the on-field results nor the eye test near that out.

The secondary and DE are where we sustained losses. Neither unit has had a dip in performance, and depth is substantially better despite who portaled out.

Both units are positioned well long term.

Net benefit SU.

 

[TheHaze315]

Huh?
Clark, Barron and Wilson signed with Syracuse out of high school.

Clark was a Rutgers transfer.

 

[GoSU96]

You have to admit you are choosing (I won't say cherry picking) a particular time period that makes it very easy to see what we lost (current production) and makes it very hard to see what we gained (most of the visible gains came from previous transfers) because the current crop may need a half season or more to make an impact

Also Bradford and I Jones were JUCOs that we're pretty happy to have I would think

Forgot Jones

 

[anomander]

Shrader (and both backups)
Bleich
Wohlabaugh
More
Villari

Clark/Cinco
Simmons
I Johnson

Stonefoot
Adams

See my post below. I’m basically just referencing last year since NIL has gone into effect. That’s an entire different wrinkle to just the transfer portal we previously had.

 

[anomander]

You have to admit you are choosing (I won't say cherry picking) a particular time period that makes it very easy to see what we lost (current production) and makes it very hard to see what we gained (most of the visible gains came from previous transfers) because the current crop may need a half season or more to make an impact

Also Bradford and I Jones were JUCOs that we're pretty happy to have I would think

The reason i’m picking that time period is because i believe that’s the time when everything changed because NIL went into effect. Before we were just unloading the guys who didn’t play to free up space to bring in the transfers you referenced. Now we have to deal with our top players potentially being cherry picked each year to go play from someone that can pay them a lot more. You have to see why NIL now makes it a totally different story?

 

[qdawgg]

When you look at the program from 10k ft, the quality players brought in to backfill the developed players is what's (along with NIL) finally putting us ahead of the curve it feels. They are establishing a bar for the newcomers to meet so they are able to step up when their time comes. The foundation is solid.

Like the approach with coordinators as well, we'll probably lose Beck in the next season or so. Rocky, I'm hoping is cranky enough to not want to go anywhere and solidify his legacy right here. Either way, looking for and developing the next coordinators through lineage or development/promotion just makes sense. The roster and trajectory of the program is already there.

Sorry for the crazy mid-day random ass post... The way my Chi Bears played this weekend, this is some kind of self remedy therapy for me I guess! It's either this or curse randomly in vintage Navy Sailor tongue to random objects. Not a good look...

That makes two of us…… Bears

 

[anomander]

Anomander is a fantastic poster, but I've disagreed with him about the value proposition the portal has yielded for SU all off-season.

I understand why some conservatively projected that we had net losses, but neither the on-field results nor the eye test near that out.

The secondary and DE are where we sustained losses. Neither unit has had a dip in performance, and depth is substantially better despite who portaled out.

Both units are positioned well long term.

Net benefit SU.

I agree that the secondary has certainly stepped up and played great. We still have someone on the 2 deep that has no business being there. As for DL you can never have enough big bodies, and we lost someone who was just coming into his own.

Our depth has improved, and we’ll see what happens this offseason, but losing multiple all-league players will be a roll of the dice if the backups are ready to step up. That’s also counting on our returning guys to step up. The transfers we got, albeit young, have yet to step up in the way i think some assumed they would. Obviously, Wohlabaugh was a huge get, and i’m hoping More will be as well. But if we’re measuring what we lost for what we got i just don’t see how we won out?

 

[SUskibum]

The reason i’m picking that time period is because i believe that’s the time when everything changed because NIL went into effect. Before we were just unloading the guys who didn’t play to free up space to bring in the transfers you referenced. Now we have to deal with our top players potentially being cherry picked each year to go play from someone that can pay them a lot more. You have to see why NIL now makes it a totally different story?

I totally get thats why your choosing that period, which is fair and why I explicitly didn't say cherry picking.

However you have to admit, any analysis based on that time period is borderline impossible since you have 1-3 years of evaluation for the peices we lost and a couple games of evaluation for the peices we gained. That is why I am saying the evaluation period is rought to make a decision on, though I totally get you think NIL skewed it negatively.

Here is what I think:

Transfer Portal will be a net positive, and it won't be close in terms of both top line talent (like QB and OL) and in terms of depth

NIL will be a moderate net negative. We will keep many, but not all our most important peices from transferring, but conversely we will also be able keep more 3rd and 4th year kids an extra year who would have been late round picks with a 500k-1m NIL deal to stay another year (like Judah on the BB side)

 

[qdawgg]

I also give you condolences for the Bears. I thought Fields was turning a corner last year. They have to let him run.

Defenses are largely closing him down on runs. They’re keeping him in the pocket b/c they know he won’t throw the ball. The Oline gets blamed a lot, they aren’t great but he’s had a lot of time to throw more often than not. He’s just not throwing the ball. Guys are open, they’re hitting their breaks and getting separation and he’s scared to throw. He looked better than he was last year because of all the great running plays. But he was holding the ball and not able to make decisions last year either. It’s amplified now b/c D’s are forcing him to throw and not letting him run. He is almost 100% of the problem.

 

[sutomcat]

The reason i’m picking that time period is because i believe that’s the time when everything changed because NIL went into effect. Before we were just unloading the guys who didn’t play to free up space to bring in the transfers you referenced. Now we have to deal with our top players potentially being cherry picked each year to go play from someone that can pay them a lot more. You have to see why NIL now makes it a totally different story?

I think to do this right, you have to wait a few years and see what happens with all the players that were lost and all the players that were brought in.

We lost Lamson, Geer, Carter, Chestnut, Linton, JacoBian Morgan, Anthony Queeley, Courtney Jackson, Schuster. Magnuson, Hough and Foster. I think that is it.

Geer, Carter and Chestnut were sure starters. Linton would have played some in passing situations. Lamson would probably have been the backup QB. So five players of consequence. The others were likely never going to play. Most had been beaten out by younger players and saw the writing on the wall.

We gained Stonehouse, Callahan, Braden Davis, Ingraham, More, Wohlabaugh, Gould, Bellamy, Martin, and Farmer.

I think Ingraham and More are seniors. The others are all sophomores or freshman. If you look at the schools that offered the players we lost and the players we got, the players we added had much better offers overall. The players we got are overall a lot younger too.

No offense to Carter or Chestnut but the players we have at their positions to date have been as good or better than they were last season. Both were banged up almost continually when they were here, which limited their effectiveness. Geer is IMHO the most significant loss. But we had good depth at DE.

Not sure what all the young players are going to do this year. It might be that for this year, the players we lost might have been a little better than what we got. Not convinced of that but it could be.

I think if you look long term, IMHO, the players we got are going to make far bigger contributions than the ones we lost. Let’s see how things play out…..

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Clark is from Rutgers. Miscounted, didn’t refer to the roster. 3 of 5.

Apologies. I completely forgot Clark signed with Rutgers.

 

[anomander]

I think to do this right, you have to wait a few years and see what happens with all the players that were lost and all the players that were brought in.

We lost Lamson, Geer, Carter, Chestnut, Linton, JacoBian Morgan, Anthony Queeley, Courtney Jackson, Schuster. Magnuson, Hough and Foster. I think that is it.

Geer, Carter and Chestnut were sure starters. Linton would have played some in passing situations. Lamson would probably have been the backup QB. So five players of consequence. The others were likely never going to play. Most had been beaten out by younger players and saw the writing on the wall.

We gained Stonehouse, Callahan, Braden Davis, Ingraham, More, Wohlabaugh, Gould, Bellamy, Martin, and Farmer.

I think Ingraham and More are seniors. The others are all sophomores or freshman. If you look at the schools that offered the players we lost and the players we got, the players we added had much better offers overall. The players we got are overall a lot younger too.

No offense to Carter or Chestnut but the players we have at their positions to date have been as good or better than they were last season. Both were banged up almost continually when they were here, which limited their effectiveness. Geer is IMHO the most significant loss. But we had good depth at DE.

Not sure what all the young players are going to do this year. It might be that for this year, the players we lost might have been a little better than what we got. Not convinced of that but it could be.

I think if you look long term, IMHO, the players we got are going to make far bigger contributions than the ones we lost. Let’s see how things play out…..

I certainly agree that we won’t know the true results for a couple of years. My main concern this season was that we were trading upperclassman leadership that have been a proven commodity for future potential. We will need a whole cycle to matriculate to see if those young transfers we got are able to earn starting spots to offset eventual transfers.

 

[anomander]

I totally get thats why your choosing that period, which is fair and why I explicitly didn't say cherry picking.

However you have to admit, any analysis based on that time period is borderline impossible since you have 1-3 years of evaluation for the peices we lost and a couple games of evaluation for the peices we gained. That is why I am saying the evaluation period is rought to make a decision on, though I totally get you think NIL skewed it negatively.

Here is what I think:

Transfer Portal will be a net positive, and it won't be close in terms of both top line talent (like QB and OL) and in terms of depth

NIL will be a moderate net negative. We will keep many, but not all our most important peices from transferring, but conversely we will also be able keep more 3rd and 4th year kids an extra year who would have been late round picks with a 500k-1m NIL deal to stay another year (like Judah on the BB side)

Don’t get me wrong i was totally for the transfer portal without NIL involved. It was great for a program like ours where we could take the recruits that didn’t pan out, and give them a chance to go somewhere else to get on the field, all while adding pieces we need to make ourselves better. I don’t think that gave many of our established stars much incentive to leave. Now money is involved and i feel that could potentially change everything.

i do understand we won’t know the actual results for a couple of years. I’m interested to see what happens this offseason. It’s early in the year but we have some NIL cautionary tales to point too where things may not have worked out the way the players had hoped.

Anyways we have a good team on our hands. I’m good with tabling this discussion until later

 

[kcsu]

Anomander is a fantastic poster, but I've disagreed with him about the value proposition the portal has yielded for SU all off-season.

I understand why some conservatively projected that we had net losses, but neither the on-field results nor the eye test near that out.

The secondary and DE are where we sustained losses. Neither unit has had a dip in performance, and depth is substantially better despite who portaled out.

Both units are positioned well long term.

Net benefit SU.

Its not even close the portal is a huge plus for Syracuse. There are considerably more highly ranked players at factory schools who will transfer than starters at Syracuse who will.
Just look at our QB room, OL room, and yes DB room.
The transfer rule greatly benefits SU

 

[anomander]

Its not even close the portal is a huge plus for Syracuse. There are considerably more highly ranked players at factory schools who will transfer than starters at Syracuse who will.
Just look at our QB room, OL room, and yes DB room.
The transfer rule greatly benefits SU

Again, entirely missing my point.

 

[RMH44]

I think to do this right, you have to wait a few years and see what happens with all the players that were lost and all the players that were brought in.

We lost Lamson, Geer, Carter, Chestnut, Linton, JacoBian Morgan, Anthony Queeley, Courtney Jackson, Schuster. Magnuson, Hough and Foster. I think that is it.

Geer, Carter and Chestnut were sure starters. Linton would have played some in passing situations. Lamson would probably have been the backup QB. So five players of consequence. The others were likely never going to play. Most had been beaten out by younger players and saw the writing on the wall.

We gained Stonehouse, Callahan, Braden Davis, Ingraham, More, Wohlabaugh, Gould, Bellamy, Martin, and Farmer.

I think Ingraham and More are seniors. The others are all sophomores or freshman. If you look at the schools that offered the players we lost and the players we got, the players we added had much better offers overall. The players we got are overall a lot younger too.

No offense to Carter or Chestnut but the players we have at their positions to date have been as good or better than they were last season. Both were banged up almost continually when they were here, which limited their effectiveness. Geer is IMHO the most significant loss. But we had good depth at DE.

Not sure what all the young players are going to do this year. It might be that for this year, the players we lost might have been a little better than what we got. Not convinced of that but it could be.

I think if you look long term, IMHO, the players we got are going to make far bigger contributions than the ones we lost. Let’s see how things play out…..

Ingraham is listed as a R-Jr. I can't remember if he has 2 or 3 years of eligibility left.

 

[Chip]

I’m specifically referencing the time period since the NIL portal has gone into effect , which for the most part was this past offseason. Basically, the period starting when other programs can pay for your top players.

Also, i would count JUCO’s how we always have, as part of your recruiting class, which even so, only Reed has had an impact, but that’s different from what i’m referring to.

Specifically referencing this past season, I think most said it would be worse in the short term but better in the long term.

Geer was the toughest loss. But we've added so much young depth in the secondary, it's going to be a position of strength for the next few years.

We'll see what this weekend brings with Clemson, but I have no issues with how the D is playing right now. Maybe next man up was fine, even if it wasn't one of the incoming transfers.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Defenses are largely closing him down on runs. They’re keeping him in the pocket b/c they know he won’t throw the ball. The Oline gets blamed a lot, they aren’t great but he’s had a lot of time to throw more often than not. He’s just not throwing the ball. Guys are open, they’re hitting their breaks and getting separation and he’s scared to throw. He looked better than he was last year because of all the great running plays. But he was holding the ball and not able to make decisions last year either. It’s amplified now b/c D’s are forcing him to throw and not letting him run. He is almost 100% of the problem.

Agree... Can't grasp the number of issues right now, just damn issues. Too many years of blah. Had to accept GBay and MN being better organizations and a their periodic success. But now I gotta watch the friggin Lions look great!

Sometimes the world/football gods talk to you directly. Was watching a show Sunday night after football and they had an old school guy in Chicago talking to his new boutique weed guy (via text) about bud options. The weed guy text "how high do you wanna get?" He responded "so high that I can forget how long it's been since the Bears won the SB!"

I just laughed and gave a head nod... That s*** was meant for me!! Don't know when they recorded the show, sure we were catching up on DVR episodes, but this day, this night, after this game... It was for me to see.

 

[kcsu]

Again, entirely missing my point.

My response was independent of your post

 

[anomander]

Specifically referencing this past season, I think most said it would be worse in the short term but better in the long term.

Geer was the toughest loss. But we've added so much young depth in the secondary, it's going to be a position of strength for the next few years.

We'll see what this weekend brings with Clemson, but I have no issues with how the D is playing right now. Maybe next man up was fine, even if it wasn't one of the incoming transfers.

I absolutely agree they are playing great. Our guys we had behind them really stepped up. No issue there. My concern is if this is a every year thing where we lose 2-5 key cogs in the machine. Will we always be able to keep on replacing that without missing a beat. That is my concern.