General Consensus Now: Syracuse Not Very Good

[longislandcuse]

The reason the media is sh&^%ing on us is because of JB's comments. On Sportscenter Gottlieb put us at 4 solely because of JB's comments, by saying JB isnt happy with this team and he knows them better than we do so im putting them at 4 and they have to fix the rebounding in order to be number 1. I think JB is trying to motivate the team. We play zone exclusively so we're not going to be a dominant rebounding team especially when we have insane transition and block shots, however with NBA size and athleticism they have to be better.

 

[cusetown1]

My god yes. Its one freaking game! Kentucky gets beat Saturday night and we win then it will be "whats wrong with Kentucky?" Jesus I cant believe people take ESPN and their word so seriously.

The bottom line is we are probably going to get a #1 seed. We would not play Kentucky until the FF or possibly the NC game. All this talk of beating Kentucky in a 7 game series, etc means squat. You know how low the odds are that both of us actualy make it to the NC game? Would anyone on this board be shocked if Kentucky got picked off in the sweet 16? I wouldnt.

Some people need ot really get off of this ESPN is out to get us mentality. Every team gets bashed. Every team gets ridiculed. Every team gets taken apart and dissected. If Kentucky loses ot Vandy on Saturday it will happen to them.

Just enjoy the ride we are on and see how it plays out.

did you see Dougie just now ranking the teams? UNC stays at 3 Syracuse moves to 4 lol.

 

[Alcuse01]

we just played the #1 rival, in what could be the last time (at least in the Big east) they play in the Dome. Does anyone who watches basketball actually think this would be an easy game? Ppl (fans/media) are focusing on the numbers, but the game is more then that.

And whatever moron says Fab is afraid of contact should be discredited and probably knocked out. He leads the team in charges by 3x the amt of the second person, took more last night, goes for the blocks, and swings his arms like a mad man hoping to get thrown out of the game! When I see statements like that, it makes me back off this forum more and more

Only cuse "fans" can watch us win against gtown, in a game where the old big east was really showcased (banging/toughness) and come away feeling as if the team is a fraud.

 

[cusetown1]

we just played the #1 rival, in what could be the last time (at least in the Big east) they play in the Dome. Does anyone who watches basketball actually think this would be an easy game? Ppl (fans/media) are focusing on the numbers, but the game is more then that.

And whatever moron says Fab is afraid of contact should be discredited and probably knocked out. He leads the team in charges by 3x the amt of the second person, took more last night, goes for the blocks, and swings his arms like a mad man hoping to get thrown out of the game! When I see statements like that, it makes me back off this forum more and more

Only cuse "fans" can watch us win against gtown, in a game where the old big east was really showcased (banging/toughness) and come away feeling as if the team is a fraud.

The question I would like to know, do people actually watch the games period?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Matt, NBA teams are playing against other NBA teams. An NBA team would take Kentucky apart.

Dash, I don't doubt that Kentucky would lose to nearly any NBA team in a single game. My point was that NBA scoring seems like it is down again this year due to the nature of the schedule, lack of training camps, mounting injuries and no money to pay to bench players - and that they are only scoring 85 points a game anyway (or at least it seems that way to me).

 

[Orange87]

None of this makes any sense.

#2 Syracuse isn't that good because they didn't blow out #12 Georgetown.

Georgetown is really good because they almost beat Syracuse at home.

Which is it? Is Georgetown really good? If Georgetown is really good and Syracuse beat them even though they got outrebounded by a large margin wouldn't that mean that Syracuse is really good?

If Georgetown isn't that good, why are they on the cusp of the top ten? I'm guessing that they've beaten some pretty good teams at some point this season, no?

Syracuse won that game against a tough team on a night when they were owned on the boards and only Melo and Joseph came to play. And hasn't that been the argument FOR Syracuse all season? That they are deep enough that a few guys can have off nights because odds are all of them won't?

Stupid.

JB has said that part of the reason the team gets outrebounded is because they don't position themselves for the rebound, they position themselves for the transition bucket by staying out on the wings. what the team lacks in the rebounds they usually make up for in steals. Granted that you don't want to have that much of a discrepency in the numbers but that's part of the reason.

 

[Czar]

Dash, I don't doubt that Kentucky would lose to nearly any NBA team in a single game. My point was that NBA scoring seems like it is down again this year due to the nature of the schedule, lack of training camps, mounting injuries and no money to pay to bench players - and that they are only scoring 85 points a game anyway (or at least it seems that way to me).

Again, they're PLAYING NBA TEAMS! No one on Kentucky could guard any NBA player right now.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Again, they're PLAYING NBA TEAMS! No one on Kentucky could guard any NBA player right now.

Bullshit. There are more scrubs in the NBA than at any time in recent history. Are you telling me Kentucky couldn't guard Jeremy Lin, a Harvard guy, or Renaldo Balkman or Toney Douglas. I could go on and on. Every team seems to have a bunch of those guys on them these days. There is no roster depth like there used to be, even on the good teams, because the best players take up too much of the available salary cap space.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

So...now, does JB have the guards crash the defensive glass to secure more boards...thereby limiting any transition opportunities? Or do we keep watching guys walk around KJo and Fab for putbacks?

 

[Knicks411]

Bullshit. There are more scrubs in the NBA than at any time in recent history. Are you telling me Kentucky couldn't guard Jeremy Lin, a Harvard guy, or Renaldo Balkman or Toney Douglas. I could go on and on. Every team seems to have a bunch of those guys on them these days. There is no roster depth like there used to be, even on the good teams, because the best players take up too much of the available salary cap space.

Well, the guy who started at PG for Kentucky 2 years ago and went #1 in the draft couldn't guard Lin...

I'm not 100% sure I follow your point on the roster depth; on a team to team basis I think I see what you are saying, but all the salary cap does is allocate the money to players; it isn't like there are players not playing in the league that otherwise would because of the salary cap.

But the idea that Anthony Davis couldn't guard, for instance, Jared Jefferies? Come on. Anthony Davis is going to be guarding NBA players in 8 months. He's going to improve that much defensively in 8 months?

Which is it? Is Georgetown really good? If Georgetown is really good and Syracuse beat them even though they got outrebounded by a large margin wouldn't that mean that Syracuse is really good?

I think Gtown is a pretty good team, top 15ish seems right, and one of the best teams at home usually doesn't need OT to beat that kind of team. (Though that is just usually; see Ohio State vs Purdue or UNC vs Duke).

But I don't really buy the rebounding thing; they got outrebounded because they aren't good at rebounding. You could turn it around and say we needed OT to win a home game against a team that shot 33%.

I would've felt more comfortable if we had beaten Gtown more easily, and there are clearly identifiable flaws in this team (which of course, every team has) that were illuminated here. But in the long run, I am probably making too much of this game. We played a good team, we won, I should be happy.

 

[cusetown1]

there seemed to be a lot of back iron shots that went long and into the hands of Georgetown. It was almost like the ball and Gtown's hands were magnets. The balls were almost impossible for Syracuse to rebound they were going so high off the iron.

 

[Orange87]

So...now, does JB have the guards crash the defensive glass to secure more boards...thereby limiting any transition opportunities? Or do we keep watching guys walk around KJo and Fab for putbacks?

I think the HOF coach needs to figure out a way to satisfy both needs consistently or at least recognize, in-game, which stratgy he needs to employ and do it.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Some quotes about SU from tonight:

Dykes: "Syracuse is leaking oil." "Their defense is nothing but a ball watching zone."

The part you left out was, he said, (paraphrasing) "They do a great job of tracking the ball throughout the possession, but once the shot goes up, the players in the zone need to not watch the shot and find a man to box out."

He added that this was easier said than done, but something Syracuse must accomplish if they wanna win the title.

He wasn't downplaying the zone in and of itself, just the players' collective attitude towards rebounding which, based on the stats and his analysis, has been quite poor of late.

Seriously, you're gonna tell me that you've been pleased with the rebounding of late (save for the SJU game) ??

I could grab more boards than KJO and I'm 6 feet tall. As good a scorer as he is, the guy hasn't boxed out since middle school.

But great job in feeling slighted... I commend you in your being offended by actual facts.

 

[pfister1]

So...now, does JB have the guards crash the defensive glass to secure more boards...thereby limiting any transition opportunities? Or do we keep watching guys walk around KJo and Fab for putbacks?

That is the question......and since, putting aside the St. John's game, the transition opportunities haven't been nearly as plentiful in the last several games as they were previously (maybe having something to do with the caliber of opponents) we should work to limit the other team's opportunities and give Fab and CJ the help on the glass.

 

[PoppyHart]

I said back in November that this is the kind of team that JTIII savors b/c its not bogged down by stars and everybody can buy into his system. A lot of people on this board have basically said that they suck this year. While it's hard to differentiate the orangefan13s and others who want to say every team blows from the more rational posters (without some sort of Excel spreadsheet to guide you), I'd say the majority on this board think we beat a "bad" team last night. It's sad to say that that's the perception (not reality), but that's the temperature of the board for the last 2.5 months.

None of this makes any sense.

#2 Syracuse isn't that good because they didn't blow out #12 Georgetown.

Georgetown is really good because they almost beat Syracuse at home.

Which is it? Is Georgetown really good? If Georgetown is really good and Syracuse beat them even though they got outrebounded by a large margin wouldn't that mean that Syracuse is really good?

If Georgetown isn't that good, why are they on the cusp of the top ten? I'm guessing that they've beaten some pretty good teams at some point this season, no?

Syracuse won that game against a tough team on a night when they were owned on the boards and only Melo and Joseph came to play. And hasn't that been the argument FOR Syracuse all season? That they are deep enough that a few guys can have off nights because odds are all of them won't?

Stupid.

JB has said that part of the reason the team gets outrebounded is because they don't position themselves for the rebound, they position themselves for the transition bucket by staying out on the wings. what the team lacks in the rebounds they usually make up for in steals. Granted that you don't want to have that much of a discrepency in the numbers but that's part of the reason.

 

[SoBeCuse]

We are probably overrated in the sense that we aren't nearly as dominant as our record indicates. Are we still Top 10 - sure. The Top 10 is pretty weak though. The half-court offense really struggles to score unless someone is going off (and lately we've been lucky if even 1 guy is hitting shots outside), and our rebounding is definitely a concern.

We have weaknesses, are we capable of winning it all - sure. Are the odds high that we'll get bounced in the S16 - depending on the match-up, it wouldn't even be mildly surprising if we did.

Agree. No surprise and nothing wrong with feeling concerned. One would think that the rebounding would really be a focus since the offense isn't very good. Sort of become a scrappy/ugly team like Marquette. Even WITH our offense being so poor it's the defensive rebounding which is keeping other teams in the game allowing second chances. So painful to watch when the initial defensive possessions are usually good and we should be jumping on these teams early.

 

[texascpa]

Have you been watching any NBA games lately? Half the teams in the NBA can't score 85 points, no matter who they're playing. NBA product is damn near unwatchable right now. The compressed schedule means more players are injured, and more players are coasting through more games to try to avoid getting injured. Plus the new collective bargain agreement leads to a handful of good players, and a bunch of terrible borderline players on nearly every team to fill out their rosters. Stern has turned a great product into a pile of crap the last 10 years or so.

Are you serious agreeing that a bunch of 18 year olds (Kentucky starts 3 freshmen, right?) could hold even one NBA team to 85 points in a NBA regulation game? Really?

 

[samspann1]

Rebounding takes some passion and aggression. It's down in the trenches, who wants it more kind of stuff. It's not glorious. Kind of like the O-line on a football team...they don't get the glory but without a good line, the offense is stagnant and fails, and the QB and RB don't do so well.

It's not a hard concept. Go after the ball with passion. Box out. Don't stand there and wait for the ball to fall into your lap. UK is good at rebounding because they are aggressive down low and want it. SU is too...at times...but certainly not nearly enough. Come on guys (players)...kick some frickin a__ down low!!

Great post. I think that some of these guys are more concerned with getting on ESPN's Top 10 than they are with playing fundamentally sound.

Too often, the desire and hustle on the glass and for loose balls are missing

 

[Ptzburghcuse]

"It's entire possible both make it, one makes it, or neither make it." - I would say that is not possible...it is certain

Agreed though that one game does not equal a season. Remember when SU was cruising and ESPN maintained SU was clearly the best team in the country? This just happened to be the timeframe when Kentucky was eeking out wins against so-so competition in the early part of the SEC.

SU gutted out a tough win over a very good, defensive minded Georgetown team - wasn't pretty to watch and a bit scary at times, but the result sure was nice.

 

[reedny]

I watched Gotlieb's analysis after the game, and his comment about our rebounding needs a bit more context. Yes, he said rebounding's a problem ... BUT ... he also stated that, IF the Cuse doesn't adjust and rebound better (with the guards not cheating out as much), SU could get beat by a lesser team. He explained that lesser meant a team below the top 3/4 teams in the Country.

This certainly didn't convey a sense of panic over a close defensive struggle, which is what this game was.

Neither did ESPN's hightlights on Sportscenter. They showed the JB rebounding rant from his presser .. and then said, 'yea yea ... but they won the game'. No panic there either.

As far as Jimmy Dykes, yes he likes Kentucky. Who doesn't? They dismantled UF the other night and looked unstoppable. Florida got almost nothing inside, and 'held' the gap to 20 points by hitting distant 3's. But Ky dominated from start to finish. AD blocked everything inside, K-G looked silly good, Miller and Lamb were hitting 3's... So I can understand why Dykes is touting Ky as the team to beat.

As far as our prospects for national prominence this year, there's a LOT of ball left to be played. We have a brutal stretch coming up -- and the weaknesses noted above (rebounding, half-court sets, etc.) will be exploited. Expect UConn and (especially) the Ville to control tempo and create a defensive struggle forcing us to make shots. Pitino knows the zone well -- he'll add full court pressure and his offense will rotate guys to the foul line to feed their shooters.

We also have to be concerned about our bench. JS is in a funk. With the exception of Cinci, in big games Rak and Keita have disappeared. Even CJ (2-10) played rattled last night.

If you add these woes to our streaky guard rotation, we're suddenly not looking like the 10-man juggernaut everyone was so excited about.

 

[BlueCurtain]

He sees rebounding as a terminal illness of this team and doesn't see much chance of being able to fix it..

Too bad m2m is illegal in Div. 1. We might actually limit them to 3 shots every time down instead of the usual 20.

As far as guards leaking out, that's a lack of accountability - and that's on coaching.

 

[AZOrange]

Whoever stated that Kentucky could hold most NBA teams under 85 points should never be allowed to speak about sports again.

I completely agree. Dykes was really off...

 

[BRNCUSEFRVCUSE]

yeah were really leaking oil (were 24-1 and 11-1 in the big east) Kojo stepped up and became our dude (Hubert Davis hows the gtown pick looking now) and yes i know we cant rebound to save our skins (i was at the game last night and was going crazy with the ppl in my section)

Ill worry bout what might beat us in the Elite 8 when we get there, Im not worrying to much when were the number 2 team in the country.

My general consensus : Were good

 

[rstone7727]

yeah were really leaking oil (were 24-1 and 11-1 in the big east) Kojo stepped up and became our dude (Hubert Davis hows the gtown pick looking now) and yes i know we cant rebound to save our skins (i was at the game last night and was going crazy with the ppl in my section)

Ill worry bout what might beat us in the Elite 8 when we get there, Im not worrying to much when were the number 2 team in the country.

My general consensus : Were good

Agree, we are good. People are talking about the FF though and we certainly have issues that will prevent us from reaching that goal, and rebounding is at the top of the list. CJ and Fab are good for a few rebounds per game but after that? Rebounding is usually a "born with" talent. Jerome Lane, Charles Barkley come to mind. Honestly, with the personnel we have, I don't see a huge improvement on the horizon. Rebounding like we are, dramatically increases our chances of getting knocked off earlier than we would like in the tourney. Sweet 16 at best this year, hoping DC will bring some boards with him next year.

 

[BleedsOrange44]

"It's entire possible both make it, one makes it, or neither make it." - I would say that is not possible...it is certain

Agreed though that one game does not equal a season. Remember when SU was cruising and ESPN maintained SU was clearly the best team in the country? This just happened to be the timeframe when Kentucky was eeking out wins against so-so competition in the early part of the SEC.

SU gutted out a tough win over a very good, defensive minded Georgetown team - wasn't pretty to watch and a bit scary at times, but the result sure was nice.

Touche' sir, touche'.

ESPN just goes with the flavor of the month. Whoever just won is the greatest ever. Whoever just lost is not good. etc. The most I watch them and listen to their analysts, the more respect I lose for them.