GIANT difference in hunts passing before/after running the ball

[GoSU96]

if you wait for a big sample in football, you're going to run out of time

i don't think they knew just how much of a weapon on the ground hunt was last year.

fwiw the BC game, he was 20-31, 228, 0 td, 1 int, 120 rating before running
he was 8-14, 49 yards, 2 TD, 0 Int after running, 134 rating

you get more TD because you're closer to the endzone thanks to effective runs, but you have fewer yards available.

against BC, he had 17 rushes for 90 yards. maryland was 23 for 156. if there is anything to this before/after running stuff (maybe Maryland was just weird randomness), maybe that fatigue starts accelerating. maybe put the brakes on him a little bit and run 15 times instead of 20+

I said in a post earlier this week his mechanics could have effected by fatigue or adrenaline, or a combo of both. I looked to me that he was rushed in a lot of what he was doing. Turning away from the sideline too early for example and not getting the complete call, taking off instead of staying with the pass play. He needs to get more in a distributor mode and save the running for big spots and extending plays, not a default option.

 

[storange]

Interesting, Dcuse and I both noticed there were a few plays where he could have easily ran for first downs and instead tried to force in passes to covered receivers. The pass blocking was awesome most of the game.

 

[RMH44]

What conclusions do you draw from all this data...

That our running QB shouldn't run the ball anymore?

I watched the game on TV and it sure liked like TH was gassed half the time. Might have been a huge contributing factor into his stats.

 

[phil77]

Throw more run less like most successful QBs.

 

[Millhouse]

Throw more run less like most successful QBs.

one minute i agree

the next minute i say, hunt running works better than hunt passing so run more throw less

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He needs to get more in a distributor mode and save the running for big spots and extending plays, not a default option.

That makes a lot of sense. Part of the risk of the dual-threat QB is that they often do default to running. Tricky to know if it's best to mess with it, or let it be. I think the discussion and stats in this thread suggest he might be better off messing with it.

 

[phil77]

one minute i agree

the next minute i say, hunt running works better than hunt passing so run more throw less

Doesn't the stats say he is a good passer before he starts taking off and running. So just dont run. We have 5 running backs they should run. We only play 1 QB he should throw. Hunt should only run when he is forced too or when it is in the 4th quarter and it is a do or die drive. Other than that stay in the pocket and make your reads and deliver the ball. This my first read isn't there I am taking off stuff isn't good for the WR's and by the stats you posted it isn't good for Hunt.

 

[Millhouse]

Doesn't the stats say he is a good passer before he starts taking off and running. So just dont run. We have 5 running backs they should run. We only play 1 QB he should throw. Hunt should only run when he is forced too or when it is in the 4th quarter and it is a do or die drive. Other than that stay in the pocket and make your reads and deliver the ball. This my first read isn't there I am taking off stuff isn't good for the WR's and by the stats you posted it isn't good for Hunt.

it's a very hard decision.

he keeps so many drives alive. it's hard to resist that. if he doesn't keep the drive alive, there won't be any post-run passes to criticize because they'll punt

if he keeps a drive alive running, just keep running zone read after that. err on the side of running more after he keeps the drive alive with his feet

i'm scared of messing with the most natural part of his game

 

[upperdeck]

I went back and watched the first half. Hunt looks tired from play one, sucking air all game, not sure if thats any more than normal. But anyway watched every throw the first half to see what happened after a run. At least in the first half its a non factor, of the 5-6 throws in that half, there were 2 off the mark, one was on a designed roll out and he had a very small window on an out pattern and threw just a touch high. one other he was way off. 2 others were drops.

rewatching I had missed that AB dropped a slant on the first series that he would have only had a safety to beat in addition to the drop later that he was all alone. Ish dropped his at the 4. We missed one other slant that would have been big.. I dont recall throwing that many slants until this game. His throws to Estime were high almost all game, but Estime runs poor patterns creating bad separation giving small windows to throw to. His rushed throws are almost always high. his deep balls and wheel routes are getting much better.

We left so many points on the table that first half, even 30 pts would not have done it justice.

we also dropped another INT in the endzone that i had forgotten about

 

[phil77]

it's a very hard decision.

he keeps so many drives alive. it's hard to resist that. if he doesn't keep the drive alive, there won't be any post-run passes to criticize because they'll punt

if he keeps a drive alive running, just keep running zone read after that. err on the side of running more after he keeps the drive alive with his feet

i'm scared of messing with the most natural part of his game

But maybe instead of keeping the drives alive with his legs he can start keeping drives alive with his arm?

How many games do you think we will win if Hunt is carrying the ball 20 times a game? And do you think he will last the ACC season carrying 20 times a game?

 

[Millhouse]

But maybe instead of keeping the drives alive with his legs he can start keeping drives alive with his arm?

How many games do you think we will win if Hunt is carrying the ball 20 times a game? And do you think he will last the ACC season carrying 20 times a game?

i'm still not that confident in him throwing despite having decent numbers saturday before he ran

i'm a mess here.

 

[SWC75]

Millhouse finally something of value in all your analysis. Look either SWC75 needs to put this question to HCSS on the Thursdays radio show or you need to get this info to the coaches - Lester and/or McDonald. They need to know this so they can game plan around it. Actually SWC75 always email the station before the show or heck just go to Destiny and give it to him personally.

Really great find!

That would be a good question. I wondered if it was a case of Hunt throwing mostly on third down after running the ball on first or second and the defense knew he was likely to pass on third down. But looking at the Central Michigan and Maryland games combined I could 7 incompletions on first and second down and 9 on third down, so i don't really see that the down makes a difference.

 

[Millhouse]

That would be a good question. I wondered if it was a case of Hunt throwing mostly on third down after running the ball on first or second and the defense knew he was likely to pass on third down. But looking at the Central Michigan and Maryland games combined I could 7 incompletions on first and second down and 9 on third down, so i don't really see that the down makes a difference.

he picked up so many first downs when he ran

 

[SWC75]

I just sent in this question via the SU website and will ask it on the show tomorrow:

"Coach, Terrell Hunt had a great game running the ball against Maryland but he didn’t throw the ball well. A fellow poster at Syracusefan.com came up with these statics from the last two games: When Terrell passed before making a run in a possession, he was 24 for 34 for 332 yards. If he’d already run the ball in that possession, he was 8 for 23 for 56 yards. Is it possible that his running the ball so much takes away from his passing abilities? "

 

[orangeinjersey]

not that this is an earth shattering revelation or anything, but I pointed out in the game thread during the 2nd qtr that Hunt looked GASSED everytime the camera zoomed in on him after a run.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/the-official-maryland-game-thread.80218/page-10#post-1136236

I dont think it takes a PHD to see that his running is effecting his throwing

 

[Millhouse]

not that this is an earth shattering revelation or anything, but I pointed out in the game thread during the 2nd qtr that Hunt looked GASSED everytime the camera zoomed in on him after a run. I dont think it takes a PHD to see that his running is effecting his throwing

i agree, i wouldn't have guessed the effect was so great though. some dropoff would've been believable but i don't think anyone would've guess the difference would be so great

 

[orangepassion]

Is there a way to do it if you don't have twitter?

I just sent in this question via the SU website and will ask it on the show tomorrow:

"Coach, Terrell Hunt had a great game running the ball against Maryland but he didn’t throw the ball well. A fellow poster at Syracusefan.com came up with these statics from the last two games: When Terrell passed before making a run in a possession, he was 24 for 34 for 332 yards. If he’d already run the ball in that possession, he was 8 for 23 for 56 yards. Is it possible that his running the ball so much takes away from his passing abilities? "

 

[SWC75]

Is there a way to do it if you don't have twitter?

I don't have Twitter. I use this:
http://cuse.com/sb_output.aspx?form=4

The call-in numbers are 424-8599 locally and 1-888-746-2873 outside the local area.

 

[orangepassion]

I don't have Twitter. I use this:
http://cuse.com/sb_output.aspx?form=4

The call-in numbers are 424-8599 locally and 1-888-746-2873 outside the local area.

Thanks-could find it last year, but couldn't this year.

Update: Just did it and they said it might be asked on the Jim Boehein show. Hope it works

 

[SWC75]

Thanks-could find it last year, but couldn't this year.

Update: Just did it and they said it might be asked on the Jim Boehein show. Hope it works

Yeah, that's still messed up. Boeheim's opinion would be interesting, though.

 

[omg_cuse_rules]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...tball_terrel_hunt_passing.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Seems kinda coincidental, but do the writers at syracuse.com read this site regularly for material?

 

[wfschrec]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...tball_terrel_hunt_passing.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Seems kinda coincidental, but do the writers at syracuse.com read this site regularly for material?

No but you are close ... Millhouse is actually Axeman.

 

[Millhouse]

No but you are close ... Millhouse is actually Axeman.

poliquin completely lifted one of my posts back in the day going over pasqualoni's record in close games. i think it was split out in games decided by 7, 5, and 3 or less. something like that. specific buckets. i got a kick out of it. they're just numbers. at least bailey did his own wrinkle