Gillon is David Patrick

[RF2044]

Somewhere please find where I have compared Gillon and Howard.

Agreed - he's much better than Patrick. And he's not horrible.

Just not as good as you claimed him to be preseason and not good enough against good teams to help this team get to where we want it to go.

Just stop. Here are Gillon's statistics for the year:

John Gillon College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

9.6 ppg on 48% fg, also shooting 48% from three point range. He's done that in just over 20 mpg. Per 40, that's over 17 ppg and 6.4 apg. Offensively, he's performed at PRECISELY the level that I "claimed him to be preseason," which is why much of the criticism heaped his way is off target. Don't believe me? Look at the advanced stats at the bottom of the page through 10 games, and then come talk to me about how well he's performed. They speak for themselves--I'm not going to bother talking you through them.

Where Gillon has fallen short has been in terms of driving the team's execution of halfcourt offensive sets. I got nervous when he suggested in preseason that he'd never run a structured offense before. Huh? How is that possible for a fifth year player? And it sucks that it's taken him some time to figure things out. But as SoBeCuse observed yesterday, he's now making plays downhill, and doing things more purposefully off of the bounce. There are plenty of things to improve upon, but he isn't performing at nearly the level some of you claim.

He makes two more of those driving layups yesterday, and half the board would have been wetting itself over how great he played. He didn't, and suddenly he's David Patrick. What's consistent is that this forum over the years has shown an alarming lack of acumen when it comes to gauging point guard play, and this thread [and your post] demonstrates more of the same.

The offensive capabilities are there. I trust the data a lot more than subjective, knee jerk opinions that aren't rooted in fact, or take at face value the water cooler claims about him being "too small" to perform effectively, or that the jump in level of competition will preclude him from producing. Board colloquial wisdom generally doesn't amount to much, and often shows a glaring lack of perspective.

Gillon is trending up. Now, we need Battle to follow suit, and the backcourt woes will be solved.

 

[Bayside44]

All we need is a Scoop on this team and we'd be fine. Just a solid PG. A Scoop, a Triche, an Allen Griffin. We never had trouble getting a solid PG. It's getting ridiculous.

Those guys as juniors and seniors sure. A soph Howard is starting and Scoop as a soph took a shirt. Allen Griffin was another late bloomer.

 

[pearl31]

Those guys as juniors and seniors sure. A soph Howard is starting and Scoop as a soph took a shirt. Allen Griffin was another late bloomer.

no way man, don't you remember how Scoop, mcw, Griffin, etc were all lighting it up from day 1??

 

[OrangeDW]

Those guys as juniors and seniors sure. A soph Howard is starting and Scoop as a soph took a shirt. Allen Griffin was another late bloomer.

Yeah, good point.

 

[OrangeDW]

no way man, don't you remember how Scoop, mcw, Griffin, etc were all lighting it up from day 1??

MCW didn't get much of a chance because of a loaded backcourt though.

But yeah, Griffin was underwhelming while starting out of position at the 2 as a sophomore. I recall him having a great BET as a freshman, but he wasn't counted on to run the team until he was a senior.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

howard turns the ball over without any pressure. He has no handle. a point guard should be able to dribble without the ball flying off his foot out of bounds.

 

[orange79]

Those guys as juniors and seniors sure. A soph Howard is starting and Scoop as a soph took a shirt. Allen Griffin was another late bloomer.

Z also

 

[SUFan44]

Just stop. Here are Gillon's statistics for the year:

John Gillon College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

9.6 ppg on 48% fg, also shooting 48% from three point range. He's done that in just over 20 mpg. Per 40, that's over 17 ppg and 6.4 apg. Offensively, he's performed at PRECISELY the level that I "claimed him to be preseason," which is why much of the criticism heaped his way is off target. Don't believe me? Look at the advanced stats at the bottom of the page through 10 games, and then come talk to me about how well he's performed. They speak for themselves--I'm not going to bother talking you through them.

Where Gillon has fallen short has been in terms of driving the team's execution of halfcourt offensive sets. I got nervous when he suggested in preseason that he'd never run a structured offense before. Huh? How is that possible for a fifth year player? And it sucks that it's taken him some time to figure things out. But as SoBeCuse observed yesterday, he's now making plays downhill, and doing things more purposefully off of the bounce. There are plenty of things to improve upon, but he isn't performing at nearly the level some of you claim.

He makes two more of those driving layups yesterday, and half the board would have been wetting itself over how great he played. He didn't, and suddenly he's David Patrick. What's consistent is that this forum over the years has shown an alarming lack of acumen when it comes to gauging point guard play, and this thread [and your post] demonstrates more of the same.

The offensive capabilities are there. I trust the data a lot more than subjective, knee jerk opinions that aren't rooted in fact, or take at face value the water cooler claims about him being "too small" to perform effectively, or that the jump in level of competition will preclude him from producing. Board colloquial wisdom generally doesn't amount to much, and often shows a glaring lack of perspective.

Gillon is trending up. Now, we need Battle to follow suit, and the backcourt woes will be solved.

Last post on this - you seriously have a reading comprehension issue. The numbers you are using are from the whole season, including his games against Colgate, Holy Cross & Boston U., where he went 18-for-27 from the field and 9-for-12 from 3. Call me crazy but I don't think we'll be seeing many teams the likes of Boston U. (4-6 record, 262 RPI), Holy Cross (4-6 record, 146 RPI) and Colgate (2-9 record, 338 RPI) in the ACC.

Take those three games out against inferior competition and his shooting percentage is 35.7%.

Again, I think Gillon is OK. But he's a bit player on a really good team, which we are not right now. He has trouble finishing against bigger front lines (which we will see in the ACC), struggles to get his shot off against bigger guards (which we will see in the ACC) and his handle is not as crisp as it should be for a guy who is undersized. Quite honestly, the kid from Monmouth is a better player than he is, and he'd struggle at this level.

Suit yourself if you want to trust the data and be the board guru on anything basketball, but contrary to popular belief (yours), others do know a thing or two. Possibly at a higher level than you, too.

I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully I do on a consistent basis against the better teams remaining on our schedule.

 

[RF2044]

Last post on this - you seriously have a reading comprehension issue. The numbers you are using are from the whole season, including his games against Colgate, Holy Cross & Boston U., where he went 18-for-27 from the field and 9-for-12 from 3. Call me crazy but I don't think we'll be seeing many teams the likes of Boston U. (4-6 record, 262 RPI), Holy Cross (4-6 record, 146 RPI) and Colgate (2-9 record, 338 RPI) in the ACC.

Take those three games out against inferior competition and his shooting percentage is 35.7%.

Again, I think Gillon is OK. But he's a bit player on a really good team, which we are not right now. He has trouble finishing against bigger front lines (which we will see in the ACC), struggles to get his shot off against bigger guards (which we will see in the ACC) and his handle is not as crisp as it should be for a guy who is undersized. Quite honestly, the kid from Monmouth is a better player than he is, and he'd struggle at this level.

Suit yourself if you want to trust the data and be the board guru on anything basketball, but contrary to popular belief (yours), others do know a thing or two. Possibly at a higher level than you, too.

I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully I do on a consistent basis against the better teams remaining on our schedule.

Please do make it the last post on this issue instead of a running commentary directed at me every time Gillon misses a shot. Which is funny, because I've been quite pragmatic about Gillon's issues defensively and running the team as the season has unfolded--I've been quite critical of BOTH point guards, in fact. I'm not out there proclaiming that he's having a great year, which is why your broken record need to bring up that I was bullish on Gillon this summer in every thread you can is odd.

I'm not going to dignify the personal attack part of your post. If you don't like my posts of have an issue with my player evaluations, don't read them. Problem solved for both of us.

Like you, I hope he does better, because that would be what's best for the team. I don't know if he's capable of doing it. Ditto Battle or Howard.

 

[PhatOrange]

Gillon might have been great if he played all 4 years here. But at this point he is who he is (can't teach an old dog new tricks). Colorado State he was the man. He could probably get to the tin and finish at CSU and didn’t ever think to pass.

I think his high water assist mark was 130. That's terrible. GBinje had 160 last year while averaging 17.5 ppg. Sheet, Kaleb Joseph had 119 assists in 2014/15.