Girard 2023 VS Buddy 2022?

[MikeSU02]

Buddy by a country mile.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Buddy is a little more high end but Joe is more well rounded. Against a bad team Joe no questions asked good one Buddy.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I’m shocked this is a topic here.

If you put a guard like Mintz with Buddy last year, we are prob on the bubble. it’s not that close to me either. Buddy is an elite offensive player

Whats elite about him is this serious? He didn't come close to hitting 40% of his three point attempts any of his seasons here. The last year he had his lowest percentage. Nice kid and put up good stats but elite?

 

[OrangeDW]

Whats elite about him is this serious? He didn't come close to hitting 40% of his three point attempts any of his seasons here. The last year he had his lowest percentage. Nice kid and put up good stats but elite?

Degree of difficulty.

Imagine if he played with Mintz?

 

[djcon57]

Whats elite about him is this serious? He didn't come close to hitting 40% of his three point attempts any of his seasons here. The last year he had his lowest percentage. Nice kid and put up good stats but elite?

Yes, He was an elite offensive player in college.

If you can’t recognize that he played here for 4 years without a valid PG (for the most part) not sure what you tell you. We had no one to get past their man last year. The one year we did with Buddy, we went to sweet 16 and he destroyed like 3 very good to great teams in a row including the uva game in the acc tourney

 

[orangepassion]

I’m shocked this is a topic here.

If you put a guard like Mintz with Buddy last year, we are prob on the bubble. it’s not that close to me either. Buddy is an elite offensive player

I'd say very good, not elite. He also had long stretches (as in a bunch of games in a row) where he didn't play well at all offensively, particularly in the first half of the year. When he was hot, there's no question you take him over JG3, but he wasn't always hot and was blessed to have a lot of leeway. He also didn't give you anything else besides scoring. Girard does give you some passing, rebounding, and steals.

 

[kcsu]

Its not even close.

 

[SWC75]

Buddy 2022 per 40 minutes
20.1p 3.5r 3.2a 1.5s 0.1b = 28.4+ 10.2mfg 0.4mft 1.9to 1.8pf = 14.3- = 14.1NP

Joe 2023 per 40 minutes
19.8p 3.4r 3.6a 1.1s 0.0b = 27.9+ 9.7mfg 0.5mft 2.7to 1.2pf = 14.1- = 13.8NP

Basically, twins except Buddy's taller and Joe turns the ball over more.

 

[jncuse]

I don't see much difference in player value between the two.

That being said last month of 20/21 season Buddy >>>>>>> Girard.
Buddy carried out us to the NCAA tournament in 2021, with the way he closed that season.

Probably too late now for Girard to try to replicate that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They’re both basically good at one thing. I’ll take Buddy because he’s 6’5 and we actually have a PG this year that doesn’t need help bringing the ball up.

I’d take a Brandon Triche over both of them.

We could substitute Brandon Triche or Dion for Girard and I think we’d still suck. Our forwards are not good.

We are light years away from Rakeem Christmas, CJ Fair, and Jerami Grant up front.

That first Duke game back in 2014 they could get nothing inside and Grant just big boyed them in overtime.

 

[OrangeDW]

We could substitute Brandon Triche or Dion for Girard and I think we’d still suck. Our forwards are not good.

We are light years away from Rakeem Christmas, CJ Fair, and Jerami Grant up front.

That first Duke game back in 2014 they could get nothing inside and Grant just big boyed them in overtime.

True. One of the things that stands out from our peak defensive performances(like Indiana or Marquette in the tourney) when we were good is our forwards just walling things off from the wing all the way to the baseline and block. Guys would get the ball on the block or short corner(typically “good” spots to get the ball) and they’d be screwed because our guys were so big and good and athletic.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Buddy because he attacks the body.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'd say very good, not elite. He also had long stretches (as in a bunch of games in a row) where he didn't play well at all offensively, particularly in the first half of the year. When he was hot, there's no question you take him over JG3, but he wasn't always hot and was blessed to have a lot of leeway. He also didn't give you anything else besides scoring. Girard does give you some passing, rebounding, and steals.

And most of his scoring was shooting from three, pull-ups or fade always on his back downs. He couldn’t put the ball on the deck and get to the rim.

 

[SWC75]

True. One of the things that stands out from our peak defensive performances(like Indiana or Marquette in the tourney) when we were good is our forwards just walling things off from the wing all the way to the baseline and block. Guys would get the ball on the block or short corner(typically “good” spots to get the ball) and they’d be screwed because our guys were so big and good and athletic.

And that allowed the center to guard the basket while the guards kept the ball out of the high post.

 

[Wrinkle]

Buddy. Obviously

 

[Fly Rodder]

We could substitute Brandon Triche or Dion for Girard and I think we’d still suck. Our forwards are not good.

We are light years away from Rakeem Christmas, CJ Fair, and Jerami Grant up front.

That first Duke game back in 2014 they could get nothing inside and Grant just big boyed them in overtime.

God, that team lost to BC, GaTech and Dayton.

 

[Manleymen]

Looks like Joe will have scoreboard since he will have a winning season. Who made his teammates better - Joe or Buddy?

 

[CardiacCuse]

very similar players actually...but i think joe is a better shooter...buddy was pretty erratic from 3 his senior year

it doesnt really matter because they basically have all of the same strengths and weaknesses...i pick joe just bc i think buddy got favortism to get to where he is (i know joe did too) and the offense ran through him on the worst syracuse team in history...but its a tie.

 

[newmexicuse]

Let's remember last year's team had Cole, Buddy, Joe, and to a lesser extent Jimmy as outside threats. This season it is pretty much all on Joe's shoulders, so Joe has to deal with more game to game pressure to take and make treys.

They are both very good college players. Clearly, Buddy is much more likely to be a next level prospect due to his size, but I dont think that is what we are talking about here.

So as to strengths relative to this years team.

D - they both leave a lot to be desired.
Outside Shooting - I give the edge to Joe because he has a quicker release, greater range, and a better "slip" move to get his trey shot off. He has a higher 3 pt % than did Buddy.
Postup - Joe is surprisingly clever and finds ways to get his shot off, but Buddy gets the edge here with his size.
Dribble Drive - Joe has a better handle, but too often gets snuffed. Maybe, a wash.
FTs - Surprisingly Buddy has the slightly higher percentage and also gets to the line a little bit more often on a per minute basis.

Buddy gets more rebounds and steals, but fewer assists.

All in all, both are very good college players and there really isnt that much to choose between them comparing the season's in the OP.

Bottom line - if we had Buddy instead of Joe this season I dont think it moves the needle at all, in either direction, relative to the team's performance.

 

[tbonezone]

girard's deep numbers % are much better than buddy's.
and neither bothers to play D so that's a scratch. guess it would come down to leadership as seniors. i'll take the board thoughts here. better team leader.

joe or buddy ?
i'd vote joe.
(but neither has/had the talent to sniff the draft)
what's that say about us ?

 

[OmahaCuse]

Would like a 2G like Battle, someone who can play D, rebound, drive and shoot. I'd vote Buddy over JG but they are both 3 point specialist. Buddy could manufacture baskets better and usually had the top defender who Judah gets now.

 

[upperdeck]

joe turns it over more because he is trying to do alot more with the ball other than shoot and make simple passes.

 

[djcon57]

Bottom line - if we had Buddy instead of Joe this season I dont think it moves the needle at all, in either direction, relative to the team's performance.

Wow, I'm really surprised at this sort of post. Buddy could single handedly take over games vs very good to great teams with his offense.

You give him a valid PG who can get in the lane consistently like Judah?

Buddy easily gives us 2-3 more wins IMO. Much closer to the bubble

 

[djcon57]

joe turns it over more because he is trying to do alot more with the ball other than shoot and make simple passes.

That's not a positive for Joe.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Wow, I'm really surprised at this sort of post. Buddy could single handedly take over games vs very good to great teams with his offense.

You give him a valid PG who can get in the lane consistently like Judah?

Buddy easily gives us 2-3 more wins IMO. Much closer to the bubble

buddy was a poor passer...worse 3 point shooter than joe

he disappeared a lot in his senior year...might have a better record with him than joe but its no slam dunk

for example last season Buddy shot:
25% - vs auburn
30% vs FSU
20% vs villanova
29% vs miami
25% vs Wake
13% duke (first game)


he also had a bunch of other games last year where his 3 point % was poor...and the team often lost those games


if he shows up, they make the tourny last season

buddy probably disappeared more last season than joe has this year, imo

a lot of buddy's stat were due to volume more than efficiency...