give up open foul line jumpers

[CorduroyG]

the 3 pt shot is a huuuuuuuuuuuge part of college basketball. players today can hit open 3's like their layups, no matter how deep. everyone always says the key to beating the zone is getting the ball to the high post. the zone will collapse on him and he can pass it for an open 3 or on the baseline for a layup. i say whenever the someone gets the ball at the high post or foul line LET HIM SHOOT. its a 2 point shot, and its not a gimme.

i feel like we should always extend the zone and the #1 key for every game on defense is not give up open 3's. im so sick of watching guys go off from 3 against us. just take away the 3 point shot. yes the really good teams will get alot more dunks and layups, but honestly id rather that than giving up a bunch of open 3's.

when we cut the lead down to 7 in 2nd half i KNEW kansas was gonna drill a 3. i feel like every game im just expecting the opponent to drill multiple dagger 3's against us, its so frustrating. 2 straight games 1 guy goes off from 3 against us. IM SO SICK OF IT!!!!!

 

[longislandcuse]

THIS

Take away the 3 ball. Take away layups. Rebound.

If the other team wants to shoot mid-range two's all game, we'll most likely win.

 

[Brooky03]

Sounds good in theory. But if/when we play a team with a Big who has a jumpshot, I think we'd get killed. An open jumper from the foul line is a high percentage shot. Midrange shots get knocked all the time as almost universally terrible decisions but the make percentage on wide open midrange shots has to be north of 65%. 10 shots would net a team 12 points. A team shooting well from 3 with decent looks would get the same points on the same number of shots (approx. 4-10 for 12 points).

If the guy at the foul line can't shoot, yeah, leave him. But we do that already anyway. If he can, you have to come up on him or you'll get shredded. If you're giving up wide open 3's, then the defense has other issues causing that that need to be addressed. If you're playing good defense, I'd rather see an opponent put up a slightly contested 3 than a wide open foul line jumper.

 

[longislandcuse]

Sounds good in theory. But if/when we play a team with a Big who has a jumpshot, I think we'd get killed. An open jumper from the foul line is a high percentage shot. Midrange shots get knocked all the time as almost universally terrible decisions but the make percentage on wide open midrange shots has to be north of 65%. 10 shots would net a team 12 points. A team shooting well from 3 with decent looks would get the same points on the same number of shots (approx. 4-10 for 12 points).

If the guy at the foul line can't shoot, yeah, leave him. But we do that already anyway. If he can, you have to come up on him or you'll get shredded. If you're giving up wide open 3's, then the defense has other issues causing that that need to be addressed. If you're playing good defense, I'd rather see an opponent put up a slightly contested 3 than a wide open foul line jumper.

With our size, Chukwu and Sidibe should be able to slightly contest the foul line jumper while defending the baseline. They won't be able to commit but they should be able to obstruct the shot some.

 

[Brooky03]

With our size, Chukwu and Sidibe should be able to slightly contest the foul line jumper while defending the baseline. They won't be able to commit but they should be able to obstruct the shot some.

I agree that the centers should be responsible for defending the foul line. I hate it when the guards leave a guy open to collapse on a guy at the foul line. If that's what we're talking about then, yeah, the guards need to stay near the 3 point line if there's a shooter anywhere in the vicinity. The drawback to the center coming up is that it opens up the rim for backdoor cuts or lobs. That's where the forwards need to get better, and I think they will.

 

[FrancoPizza]

THIS

Take away the 3 ball. Take away layups. Rebound.

If the other team wants to shoot mid-range two's all game, we'll most likely win.

Bottom line is the zone needs to evolve. We’ll continue to get field dressed by any team with multiple shooters if JB can’t see this weakness. It’s like the exhaust vent in the Death Star the way we react to post entries. It’s as if we just concede that’s it’s part of the percentages. e.g. “it was a birthday”... or “he’ll never shoot that well the rest of his career. It’s such a cop out.

 

[two3zone]

Bottom line is the zone needs to evolve. We’ll continue to get field dressed by any team with multiple shooters if JB can’t see this weakness. It’s like the exhaust vent in the Death Star the way we react to post entries. It’s as if we just concede that’s it’s part of the percentages. e.g. “it was a birthday”... or “he’ll never shoot that well the rest of his career. It’s such a cop out.

It was their super bowl.

 

[dasher]

Bottom line is the zone needs to evolve. We’ll continue to get field dressed by any team with multiple shooters if JB can’t see this weakness. It’s like the exhaust vent in the Death Star the way we react to post entries. It’s as if we just concede that’s it’s part of the percentages. e.g. “it was a birthday”... or “he’ll never shoot that well the rest of his career. It’s such a cop out.

yeah, we never beat a good team or a good 3 pt shooting team with the zone.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I agree that the centers should be responsible for defending the foul line. I hate it when the guards leave a guy open to collapse on a guy at the foul line. If that's what we're talking about then, yeah, the guards need to stay near the 3 point line if there's a shooter anywhere in the vicinity. The drawback to the center coming up is that it opens up the rim for backdoor cuts or lobs. That's where the forwards need to get better, and I think they will.

Exactly how UNC takes the zone apart. Leaving the man at the foul line alone is tough, especially when it's a talented big who can both pass or score. It's the QB with the read option - center comes up - make the pass to the wing or inside, if center stays put - shoot the jumper.

Two things about this. I agree with leaving the man alone. Giving up two is much better than three, and my guess is the odds are closer to equal on making that shot with a wide open 3-point shooter. Closer, but not the same. And that shot while familiar to most, is a bit more difficult because guys are used to taking that shot as a standing free throw as opposed to a jumper. I've seen more than a few hit the back of the rim because the shooter forgets to account for the jump.

 

[two3zone]

yeah, we never beat a good team or a good 3 pt shooting team with the zone.

I don't think anyone is saying that. But the evolution of the game is producing far more three point shooters and with our record since 25-0 hasn't been great.

 

[CorduroyG]

I agree that the centers should be responsible for defending the foul line. I hate it when the guards leave a guy open to collapse on a guy at the foul line. If that's what we're talking about then, yeah, the guards need to stay near the 3 point line if there's a shooter anywhere in the vicinity. The drawback to the center coming up is that it opens up the rim for backdoor cuts or lobs. That's where the forwards need to get better, and I think they will.

thats my biggest issue with it. the guards need to stay put on the shooters. graham didnt need much room to get his shot off, even if the guards cheat just a little bit to the foul line thats all the room these shooters need to get a good look. the guards really have to be disciplined and stay on the shooters. its definitely hard, youre natural tendency is to move to where the ball is, especially when playing a zone. but the 3 ball is such a huge weapon nowadays the guards have to stay on the shooters even when they dont have the ball.

 

[realorange]

Bottom line is the zone needs to evolve. We’ll continue to get field dressed by any team with multiple shooters if JB can’t see this weakness. It’s like the exhaust vent in the Death Star the way we react to post entries. It’s as if we just concede that’s it’s part of the percentages. e.g. “it was a birthday”... or “he’ll never shoot that well the rest of his career. It’s such a cop out.

Really? After 40 some years I think he might be aware.

 

[20Plus]

THIS

Take away the 3 ball. Take away layups. Rebound.

If the other team wants to shoot mid-range two's all game, we'll most likely win.

This is exactly what I was trying to ask coach on the call in show
almost Word for Word

 

[moqui]

With our size, Chukwu and Sidibe should be able to slightly contest the foul line jumper while defending the baseline. They won't be able to commit but they should be able to obstruct the shot some.

the whole front line needs to be better aware of what is behind them & to communicate better. it will help when they learn to distinguish a shot from a pass. on at least two of kansas' lobs, the defense reacted as if the pass was a shot and responded to get in rebounding position

 

[Dave85]

the 3 pt shot is a huuuuuuuuuuuge part of college basketball. players today can hit open 3's like their layups, no matter how deep. everyone always says the key to beating the zone is getting the ball to the high post. the zone will collapse on him and he can pass it for an open 3 or on the baseline for a layup. i say whenever the someone gets the ball at the high post or foul line LET HIM SHOOT. its a 2 point shot, and its not a gimme.

No easy baskets, period.

3-point defense when playing the 2-3 zone takes HUGE amounts of energy. We just need our players to get more conditioning. Whether play M2M or 2-3, if the other team is shooting lights out there's nothing you can do.

 

[Dave85]

thats my biggest issue with it. the guards need to stay put on the shooters. graham didnt need much room to get his shot off,

Graham would probably shoot 60% from 3 if we were playing M2M.

 

[Jeremy L.]

Bottom line is the zone needs to evolve. We’ll continue to get field dressed by any team with multiple shooters if JB can’t see this weakness. It’s like the exhaust vent in the Death Star the way we react to post entries. It’s as if we just concede that’s it’s part of the percentages. e.g. “it was a birthday”... or “he’ll never shoot that well the rest of his career. It’s such a cop out.

I've always thought the 2-3 zone should be adjusted just slightly and bring our Center up even one step. It'd look more of a 2-1-2 but as long as the wings could crash the short corners quick, we could most certainly take away the mid range shots in the middle.

 

[two3zone]

I've always thought the 2-3 zone should be adjusted just slightly and bring our Center up even one step. It'd look more of a 2-1-2 but as long as the wings could crash the short corners quick, we could most certainly take away the mid range shots in the middle.

I like this.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I like this.

but if you really watch our zone, we don't play 2-3 anymore at all. not close. It's a variation of 2-2-1 or simply 4-1 at times. And people wonder why the center gets beat on a lob. When the forward is out guarding the three point line at the foul line extended, he simply cannot help with the lob - because it's happening well behind him.

EDIT - And of course I know you know this.

 

[upperdeck]

almost every lob we had last week was because of bad defense by the forward.. you cant guard the line and the lob, but you have to see it coming too. and the backside forward also has to see it..

 

[two3zone]

but if you really watch our zone, we don't play 2-3 anymore at all. not close. It's a variation of 2-2-1 or simply 4-1 at times. And people wonder why the center gets beat on a lob. When the forward is out guarding the three point line at the foul line extended, he simply cannot help with the lob - because it's happening well behind him.

EDIT - And of course I know you know this.

Oh yes, it morphs into different zones while being a 2-3. It's essentially Tarks amoeba zone defense but we call it a 2-3.

Jb does a great job adjusting it when needed so I'm not really complaining but there are some things that I see during games that I think could help but in all reality it's a possession by possession thing not a fundamental change.

 

[two3zone]

almost every lob we had last week was because of bad defense by the forward.. you cant guard the line and the lob, but you have to see it coming too. and the backside forward also has to see it..

I'm rewatching the game now. As I read this there was a successful KU lob, the back screen just worked so well, the blame is on the communication on the court. Somebody needs to call those screens out.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'm rewatching the game now. As I read this there was a successful KU lob, the back screen just worked so well, the blame is on the communication on the court. Somebody needs to call those screens out.

Was that the one where Chukwu got screened from behind by the guy with his arms straight up and his hips thrusting into PC's backside? That was a foul.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Oh yes, it morphs into different zones while being a 2-3. It's essentially Tarks amoeba zone defense but we call it a 2-3.

Jb does a great job adjusting it when needed so I'm not really complaining but there are some things that I see during games that I think could help but in all reality it's a possession by possession thing not a fundamental change.

He did adjust our zone at the half. Just wished he had done it a bit earlier to get the two guards out from starting behind the 3 line to in front. And the attack after the first pass was a masterful adjustment JB called in the timeout in the second half.

 

[two3zone]

Was that the one where Chukwu got screened from behind by the guy with his arms straight up and his hips thrusting into PC's backside? That was a foul.

Wa wa wooo wa