GMac had a bigger gap between non conf and conf 3p% than cooney

[HoustonCuse]

I agree with you and what happens as a result of the short stints, players come in and either press or play timid. Therefore, few minutes (for what could be a developing player), may lead not only to breaking down his confidence but contributing to bad habits. On the other hand, as someone else pointed out, too many minutes can lead to an inflated level of confidence and also, bad habits.

Think about it from a workplace standpoint... if employees don't have an ounce of fear ever of getting fired or reprimanded for poor performance / bad decision-making, do you think your organization would be better or worse off? I believe the answer is obvious which is why Cooney should sit at times, not just for rest but for putting up 8 or 9 3's after making ZERO rather than driving or finding someone else who is contributing offensively.

Eh, I'm not buying that analogy. Fear of being fired will motivate a person only enough to do the bare minimum.

Are you Lumbergh?? Your workplace motivational analogy is basically the entire stated premise of the movie Office Space.

 

[rrlbees]

I should! Alas, I like to use stats and stuff and I don't think I would get enough time to make my point! Stupid format for radio shows... Plus, I'm not sure I've ever heard JB say we can't score if Cooney doesn't play. Just a lot of people on here. We need JB to post on the forum!

So in other words you don't want to hear JB's answer.

 

[kcsu]

So in other words you don't want to hear JB's answer.

I heard it today and i dont buy it. Sure the other guys are shooting a worse percentage but that isnt the point. What i believe is do you sacrafice a few percentage points for lets say 5 or so minutes a game to increase Trevors? JB is sharp for sure and he knows how to fence his position better than most. In this case i dont agree with him. Good spin but misses the point

 

[Ghost]

So in other words you don't want to hear JB's answer.

We have JB's answer...Cooney for some ungodly reason has to play 40 minutes per game. A call in to a radio show isn't going to do anything. He's explained it a lot.

I talk about this stuff on the forum to hear people on the forum answer! Cuz a lot of people have repeatedly said all season that we cannot score if Cooney sits. But when he sits, we seem to score. JB actually has a job, he has a lot more pressure on him so he's dealing with that aspect of this stuff, on the forum though - we talk hypotheticals obviously.

In that world, the team can't score w/out TC, and BJ can't shoot. I think a lot people have no trouble crushing on Patterson and BJ while getting upset if TC is criticized. So, when stats don't bear something out - just wondering why they don't!

It's just a forum - no harm in that!

 

[rrlbees]

We have JB's answer...Cooney for some ungodly reason has to play 40 minutes per game. A call in to a radio show isn't going to do anything. He's explained it a lot. I talk about this stuff on the forum to hear people on the forum answer! Cuz a lot of people have repeatedly said all season that we cannot score if Cooney sits. But when he sits, we seem to score. JB actually has a job, he has a lot more pressure on him so he's dealing with that aspect of this stuff, on the forum though - we talk hypotheticals obviously. In that world, the team can't score w/out TC, and BJ can't shoot. I think a lot people have no trouble crushing on Patterson and BJ while getting upset if TC is criticized. So, when stats don't bear something out - just wondering why they don't! It's just a forum - no harm in that!

He has explained it a 1,000 times like you say. But you don't buy it right?

 

[Ghost]

He has explained it a 1,000 times like you say. But you don't buy it right?

In this case, nope.

If that logic was completely sound Michael Jordan should never have played less than 48 minutes per game in the playoffs for his career (unless there was foul trouble). Yet he didn't.

Of course, someone could disagree with that as well. I would imagine you're on board though with Durant, Kobe, Melo, etc...never going under 48.

We can disagree with JB. I'm sure you have before as well. If not, well, that is just sort of odd. I mean, he's been the coach for like 100 years. There are billions of things you can choose to disagree with. Give it a shot - it feels good!

 

[rrlbees]

In this case, nope. If that logic was completely sound Michael Jordan should never have played less than 48 minutes per game in the playoffs for his career (unless there was foul trouble). Yet he didn't. Of course, someone could disagree with that as well. I would imagine you're on board though with Durant, Kobe, Melo, etc...never going under 48. We can disagree with JB. I'm sure you have before as well. If not, well, that is just sort of odd. I mean, he's been the coach for like 100 years. There are billions of things you can choose to disagree with. Give it a shot - it feels good!

Like I have said on the football board before, I'll often disagree with a coaches tactical decisions. Not so much strategic.

 

[Ghost]

Like I have said on the football board before, I'll often disagree with a coaches tactical decisions. Not so much strategic.

That's fair. I take more exception to the people that repeatedly say Cooney HAS to play 40 minutes or the team would crumble. I don't think you've argued that point.

If you have though - let's go!

 

[rrlbees]

That's fair. I take more exception to the people that repeatedly say Cooney HAS to play 40 minutes or the team would crumble. I don't think you've argued that point. If you have though - let's go!

I'm of the opinion no player should go 40.

 

[dasher]

i think boeheim has the best intuitive sense of stats, numbers, probabilities of any coach i've ever seen

but that intuition only goes so far. i think even he has some blind spots because he's so intuitive that he doesn't think he needs to numbers.

i think one of these blind spots are the minutes he gives his guards.

waiters had a dropoff in conference wtihout playing big minutes though. should've been a red flag for nba teams. 40% out of conference, 30% in conference

How do you factor in that our non-conference schedule is no where near as tough as our league games?

 

[Nicknack]

Eh, I'm not buying that analogy. Fear of being fired will motivate a person only enough to do the bare minimum.

Are you Lumbergh?? Your workplace motivational analogy is basically the entire stated premise of the movie Office Space.

Uh, not really. My point is that people need to be held accountable. Typically when they are not, you don't get the same level of productively or good decision making. I'm not talking about living in a world of fear but instead, living in a culture that embodies accountability. You do a good job, you get positively reinforced. You do a bad job or make poor decisions, you get negatively reinforced. The balancing act is how to effectively provide that positive or negative reinforcement.

All too often, a player will make a mistake and will get yanked from Boeheim thus hurting his confidence and ability to learn through it. There are other ways of providing neg. reinforcement that don't involve pulling a guy off the court after making one mistake and only being out on the court for half a minute. I really like Boeheim but I believe he does this too often. Sometimes it seems warranted and other times not.

 

[Brooky03]

I've said it before. Tired Cooney is better than the next best alternative on this team. Tired AND hurt Cooney? No. But just tired? Yes.

 

[Millhouse]

How do you factor in that our non-conference schedule is no where near as tough as our league games?

I agree. I don't have any easy way to compare those players dropoffs to the rest of college basketball. It's a lot of cut and paste with excel formulas - no query tool I know of that gives non conference stats for everyone. I do think a lot of that has to do with worse competition

In other threads, when I looked at Cooney's conference shooting, some poster(s?) protested that it was cherry picking

these numbers only raise questions, don't prove anything. i would LOVE to know if that type of drop off is unusual

 

[Millhouse]

I've said it before. Tired Cooney is better than the next best alternative on this team. Tired AND hurt Cooney? No. But just tired? Yes.

we don't know that. when bj johnson takes 4 threes or more in a game, he shoots 39%

 

[Brooky03]

we don't know that. when bj johnson takes 4 threes or more in a game, he shoots 39%

Defense. The difference between BJ and G in the back line of the zone is night and day.

 

[Millhouse]

Defense. The difference between BJ and G in the back line of the zone is night and day.

so keep G in the back line of the zone. if johnson's in for cooney, why do johnson and gbinije have to switch?

 

[pfister1]

Defense. The difference between BJ and G in the back line of the zone is night and day.

and almost every guy we've had here improves on defense in the zone as he plays more and gets accustomed to making the rotations in real time.

Look everything we've heard and know about BJ is that he is a hard working, conscientious kid... not someone who treats the defensive aspect of the game as optional like some we've had here. There is no reason to believe that with some time he wouldn't begin to figure it out on defense as well.

 

[Millhouse]

and almost every guy we've had here improves on defense in the zone as he plays more and gets accustomed to making the rotations in real time.

Look everything we've heard and know about BJ is that he is a hard working, conscientious kid... not someone who treats the defensive aspect of the game as optional like some we've had here. There is no reason to believe that with some time he wouldn't begin to figure it out on defense as well.

people think so much can go wrong in a small number of minutes

if rest makes a noticeable difference to 3 point shooting over the course of a season, it's probably worth whatever dropoff there is

 

[BuffOrange]

How do you factor in that our non-conference schedule is no where near as tough as our league games?

By knowing that 3pt defense % isn't much of a skill.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/3_point_defense_should_not_be_defined_by_opponents_3p
http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/the_boeheim_exception

 

[dasher]

By knowing that 3pt defense % isn't much of a skill.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/3_point_defense_should_not_be_defined_by_opponents_3p
http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/the_boeheim_exception

Without reading the links, there is a big difference between playing against Louisville defense and Colgate.

 

[tbonezone]

jonny flynn had a similar chart. as the season wore on the fg % dropped. hard to pinpoint if that's just the tougher competition or wearing down. i'd say both.

link: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/syracuse/jonny-flynn

 

[Millhouse]

By knowing that 3pt defense % isn't much of a skill.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/3_point_defense_should_not_be_defined_by_opponents_3p
http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/the_boeheim_exception

I think of the zone like the air raid in football. sorry to bring up football but there's a point, i swear

it's an effective strategy on defense overall but the problem is our offense has to practice against it and is less prepared to face other types of defenses.

similarly, air raid offenses are quite effective on their own but the problem is that the defense has to practice against it and is less prepared to face other type of offenses

syracuse is a factory for basketball and could probably get away with being more conventional on defense. in football, i think we should be more of an outlier and roll the dice. we do things backwards.

my beef with the zone isn't our defensive numbers. they're always fine. i think the offense would improve in games if they practiced against a good defense that they'd actually face in games

 

[Millhouse]

jonny flynn had a similar chart. as the season wore on the fg % dropped. hard to pinpoint if that's just the tougher competition or wearing down. i'd say both.

link: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/syracuse/jonny-flynn

flynn was 35% out of conference, 32% in conference

 

[dasher]

I think of the zone like the air raid in football. sorry to bring up football but there's a point, i swear

it's an effective strategy on defense overall but the problem is our offense has to practice against it and is less prepared to face other types of defenses.

similarly, air raid offenses are quite effective on their own but the problem is that the defense has to practice against it and is less prepared to face other type of offenses

syracuse is a factory for basketball and could probably get away with being more conventional on defense. in football, i think we should be more of an outlier and roll the dice. we do things backwards.

my beef with the zone isn't our defensive numbers. they're always fine. i think the offense would improve in games if they practiced against a good defense that they'd actually face in games

it works both ways. Other teams practice against a far inferior zone when they have to get ready for us. Going in to this season we have won just short of 150 games over the last 5 years. I think the system is working pretty well.

 

[Millhouse]

it works both ways. Other teams practice against a far inferior zone when they have to get ready for us. Going in to this season we have won just short of 150 games over the last 5 years. I think the system is working pretty well.

i think we recruit really well. i'm not complaining too much. other teams don't score that much against the zone just like other teams have trouble stopping the air raid.

if boeheim can't/won't teach man, we're not playing man. i'm just saying it hurts us on offense and that we could be a great program that plays man to man if boeheim wanted us to be