Good and not so good

[Millhouse]

Yards per reception are also skewed by the screen passes. GMac likes to use those as substitutes for running plays.

I want running plays to substitute for the substitute

 

[GoSU96]

Tied for 114th in yds per attempt. To be fair a higher rating, higher completion percentage, less INT's than others in the neighborhood, but it's two yds from where it really needs to be. 7.5 is good for 65th, which combined with the run game and defense will give SU a change to be pretty good.

They don't need to be spectacular and put up 2012 numbers, just a little more productive.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

The greatest weakness this team has had in the last two years is at WR. The stats pointed out here are a reflection of not having talent that could get open down the field consistently. This is the biggest thing that has to change for the offense to flourish. Two games into this season, verdict is still out.

People still honestly think its a talent issue? To me, it's purely scheme at this point. There are teams that throw it all over the place with lesser talent then Broyld, Estime, West, et. al.

 

[TheCusian]

Tied for 114th in yds per attempt. To be fair a higher rating, higher completion percentage, less INT's than others in the neighborhood, but it's two yds from where it really needs to be. 7.5 is good for 65th, which combined with the run game and defense will give SU a change to be pretty good. They don't need to be spectacular and put up 2012 numbers, just a little more productive.

Your point was that last years passing O is the same as this year. (Despite a 1st year QB, horrible WR production, 1st year OC, bad/late calls in from the sideline, a way too big play book - verified from players and McDonald himself).

My point is that you have to throw game one out - or give it an incomplete.

This game showed potential and improvement in the passing game. The new way to calls in from the sidelines, better reads from a 2nd year starter, and a slimmed down play book - all make me think it's revamped and will only get better.

If you throw out the bubble screens or view them as running plays - what's our average per attempt then?

Also: when you win 40-3, passing stats are kind of a lame thing to harp on.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

The running game was working, so there was less of a need to throw down field. If the bubble screens are nothing more than extended hand offs, then that will artificially inflate the number of attempts and (hopefully) completions. It will also bring down the avg. yard per catch. I'll be more concerned if we can't pass when we need to. So far, Hunt hasn't really been put in that situation very often in 2014.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I'm happy they ran the ball well yesterday, in fact I said that it's GOOD.

But if you are throwing the ball 30 times, you should be north of 200 yds.

It also "should" be warmer than 60 degrees today because the average temp is higher than that. But it's not. Can't have any expectation for results based on past data.

That said, we really didn't try to stretch the field. Go routes were few and far between, and everything seemed to be beneath the safeties. There were few opportunities to break plays open- Little YAC, lots of gain through the air.

 

[MadNY3]

Nice data set, Go.

There were a lot of good things yesterday in regards to the passing game:

- Hunt decision-making
- # of receivers who caught balls
- no TOs/What plays

That said, oh my...the stats are staggeringly awful. And since I fear our blitz-and-hope D is going to get Clemson 1st quarter torched by higher caliber talent, we have to have a passing game when we are down by a couple scores.

Like the non-Gulley running game for the most part. Too much of it though is predicated on Hunt.

 

[Chip]

If the QB runs for 3 TDs, then his amount of passing TDs becomes a bit of a useless stat.
The passing game isn't great, but it isn't terrible. We've only thrown 2 deep balls that I can recall. Haven't completed either, that's something we're going to need to show we can do next week.

Biggest worry for me next week isn't the O, it's the D. Mobile QB and a couple WRs who can run past us.

 

[GoSU96]

Your point was that last years passing O is the same as this year. (Despite a 1st year QB, horrible WR production, 1st year OC, bad/late calls in from the sideline, a way too big play book - verified from players and McDonald himself).

My point is that you have to throw game one out - or give it an incomplete.

This game showed potential and improvement in the passing game. The new way to calls in from the sidelines, better reads from a 2nd year starter, and a slimmed down play book - all make me think it's revamped and will only get better.

If you throw out the bubble screens or view them as running plays - what's our average per attempt then?

Also: when you win 40-3, passing stats are kind of a lame thing to harp on.

30 attempts is 30 attempts, has nothing to do with time, place, score. If I was saying they weren't throwing the ball enough, then you might have a point.

I have no problem with the number of attempts, its that they aren't getting enough out of them. And it's been the same thing for 1o of 11 games.

Same OC, same QB, same RB, most of the same line, most of the same WRs, you would expect improvement over what they did last year vs lower division opponents than they did against P5 schools given all the items you list, but there isn't.

You don't think that is a concern?

 

[TheCusian]

30 attempts is 30 attempts, has nothing to do with time, place, score. If I was saying they weren't throwing the ball enough, then you might have a point. I have no problem with the number of attempts, its that they aren't getting enough out of them. And it's been the same thing for 1o of 11 games. Same OC, same QB, same RB, most of the same line, most of the same WRs, you would expect improvement over what they did last year vs lower division opponents than they did against P5 schools given all the items you list, but there isn't. You don't think that is a concern?

If you concede McDonsld's point and treat the bubble screens as apart of the run game, our per throw average would be much higher.

Using traditional passing stats to gauge a team that isn't using the passing game in a traditional way leads to skewed conclusions.

Of course we can be better and throw downfield more. I agree with you that to take the next step vs high p5 competition that we need to get better. I was encouraged yesterday by all of the inside slants and throws in the middle of the field.

So in short: concerned? No. Would I like to see longer throws and the ability to stretch the field more? Sure.

 

[GoSU96]

If you concede McDonsld's point and treat the bubble screens as apart of the run game, our per throw average would be much higher.

Using traditional passing stats to gauge a team that isn't using the passing game in a traditional way leads to skewed conclusions.

Of course we can be better and throw downfield more. I agree with you that to take the next step vs high p5 competition that we need to get better. I was encouraged yesterday by all of the inside slants and throws in the middle of the field.

So in short: concerned? No. Would I like to see longer throws and the ability to stretch the field more? Sure.

It's compared to 120 something teams, many of which feature a large percentage of short passing, SU isn't the only team throwing behind the LOS to the boundary as a feature of the offense, so no, why back those out.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging there's an issue.

 

[RF2044]

Seems to me that your hand wringing over the first two games ignores important context. As in, Hunt came out not sharp, got tossed after he got into a groove and we started moving the ball, and then we were forced to play a redshirt frosh in his first game. Game 2, we moved the ball easily, didn't take shots downfield, ran the ball exceedingly well, etc.

Seems to me like both of these games constitute outliers. Not sure what definitive conclusion you can make about the passing game this year from either data point. We'll know a lot more after Maryland, IMO--a true peer game.

 

[GoSU96]

Seems to me that your hand wringing over the first two games ignores important context. As in, Hunt came out not sharp, got tossed after he got into a groove and we started moving the ball, and then we were forced to play a redshirt frosh in his first game. Game 2, we moved the ball easily, didn't take shots downfield, ran the ball exceedingly well, etc.

Seems to me like both of these games constitute outliers. Not sure what definitive conclusion you can make about the passing game this year from either data point. We'll know a lot more after Maryland, IMO--a true peer game.

1. It's not hand wringing.

2. It's not just the first two games.

 

[TheCusian]

Seems to me that your hand wringing over the first two games ignores important context. As in, Hunt came out not sharp, got tossed after he got into a groove and we started moving the ball, and then we were forced to play a redshirt frosh in his first game. Game 2, we moved the ball easily, didn't take shots downfield, ran the ball exceedingly well, etc. Seems to me like both of these games constitute outliers. Not sure what definitive conclusion you can make about the passing game this year from either data point. We'll know a lot more after Maryland, IMO--a true peer game.

This.

Why pass down the field if you don't have to? We were cruising, the couldn't stop any of it.

 

[RF2044]

1. It's not hand wringing.

2. It's not just the first two games.

1. I'll take your word for it.

2. Yes it is. Every year is a blank slate. Were we 0-7 in 2012 like some posters claimed, because we'd lost the lat 5 games of 2011?

 

[TheCusian]

1. It's not hand wringing. 2. It's not just the first two games.

What's our w-l record with McDonald and Shafer? 9-6.

That's without a deep passing game. Just think what it will be when we add some longer throws in?

(Look it's your post, sans-handwringing!)

 

[PhatOrange]

Lost a TD pass yesterday when gulley or estime whomever stepped out of bounds before making the catch.

I'd like to see us throw over the middle more. I'd rather we get 4 or 5 yards a pass/run instead of 1/2.

Hunt missed 2 passes yesterday that would've picked up big yards. The swing pass to Moore and a slant thrown behind Lewis.

I thought his worst decision was the wheel throw to gulley who was blanketed. Had he scanned the field he had someone (Broyld) wide open deep. his best decision might have been not to throw a covered bubble that he kept when ran for a couple instead.

Anyway hard to nitpic such a thrashing to a team a lot of people thought we might lose. Things will obviously change when defenses get faster. I also don't think we should discount hunts runs. People hate when we face running QBs, Hunt while not fast is a threat to run and has to be accounted for.

 

[TheCusian]

Lost a TD pass yesterday when gulley or estime whomever stepped out of bounds before making the catch. I'd like to see us throw over the middle more. I'd rather we get 4 or 5 yards a pass/run instead of 1/2. Hunt missed 2 passes yesterday that would've picked up big yards. The swing pass to Moore and a slant thrown behind Lewis. I thought his worst decision was the wheel throw to gulley who was blanketed. Had he scanned the field he had someone (Broyld) wide open deep. his best decision might have been not to throw a covered bubble that he kept when ran for a couple instead. Anyway hard to nitpic such a thrashing to a team a lot of people thought we might lose. Things will obviously change when defenses get faster. I also don't think we should discount hunts runs. People hate when we face running QBs, Hunt while not fast is a threat to run and has to be accounted for.

He's kind of in that sweet spot - where he's not fast enough for teams to put a spy on him but he'll run for 10+ yards and make a guy miss.

 

[Millhouse]

30 attempts is 30 attempts,

I disagree . Bubbles and jet screens are screwing stats up

 

[Millhouse]

It's compared to 120 something teams, many of which feature a large percentage of short passing, SU isn't the only team throwing behind the LOS to the boundary as a feature of the offense, so no, why back those out. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging there's an issue.

We are worse at bubble screens than other schools. Has nothing to do with hunt. Has everything to do with other teams only throwing it when it's there. There should never be losses in bubble screens because you should never throw it when covered.

 

[Chip]

Hunt missed 2 passes yesterday that would've picked up big yards. The swing pass to Moore and a slant thrown behind Lewis.

I thought his worst decision was the wheel throw to gulley who was blanketed. Had he scanned the field he had someone (Broyld) wide open deep. his best decision.

Agree on missing the AAM pass, and the bad decision of only looking to Gulley on that wheel route. I didn't see the other side of the field, but on that side alone he had Lewis right near the 1st down marker.

But if we're thinking of the same slant to Lewis, there was one thrown behind him that I thought was a great throw. If he led him, at worst it would have been a pick, at best it would have been broken up, defender was right there. I watched it over a couple times, because I never thought of Hunt as the know to throw it behind the WR type. I might be missing a different slant though.

 

[Chris02M]

We are worse at bubble screens than other schools. Has nothing to do with hunt. Has everything to do with other teams only throwing it when it's there. There should never be losses in bubble screens because you should never throw it when covered.

other teams usually have wrs actually block for the bubbler not whiff

 

[Shark58]

1- we are 2 games into a new season, and while there are some valid concerns regarding past performance indicators and how those will play out going forward, the truth is that we are just starting to figure out who this team really is.

2- yes, same HC, QB, OC, RB, etc. and all are still pretty new to their positions. additional contributors that should help raise this team over last years performance (namely competent WRs) are even newer. allowances in expectation must be taken for the growth curve. honestly, I think GMc is getting better and while I'm not in love with O gameplan yet, its getting better and its tough to argue with a 37 point victory.

3- while everyone pretty much agrees that the Nova game was an outlier, I think it also served as a lesson & wake up call. No one I know expected a blowout of CMU. If we lost I was expecting "who will get fired first, HCSMFS or Marrone?" threads. Instead the team believed/responded/whatever and got the job done against an opponent who most expected to be much tougher.

4- If SU was putting the longball up late in a massive blowout, there would be all kinds of other What GMc type threads.

5- I like Hunt, but don't think he's going to evolve into an all world QB. He will have his faults but I think his upside is still very high. If we are still complaining about his checkdowns 5 or 15 games from now, thats a different story. For now, he's played 1+ games as the season starter. His college career is just really starting to hit its stride and he's definitely done enough so far to earn the right for us to enjoy taking that ride from our seats.

 

[qdawgg]

other teams usually have wrs actually block for the bubbler not whiff

Most of our bubble screens the available WR(s) blocked, that wasn't the problem. The problem was running the bubble screen despite the defensive coverage and having 1 WR and 2 defenders at the LOS, minus there usually being a LB around somewhere too.

 

[woody44]

I was thinking the same thing regarding the passing game, once we get into conference play and play against anyone that can stop the run we are in trouble. I just don't understand why we don't throw the ball down the field, is it that our receivers can't get any seperation or the offensive line can't maintain their blocks or a combination of both.