Good Ol Roy says No Sanctions for hoops, plus he feels sad... | Syracusefan.com

Good Ol Roy says No Sanctions for hoops, plus he feels sad...

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from espn:

North Carolina coach Roy Williams doesn't expect the men's basketball program to be penalized by the NCAA once it completes its Notice of Allegations into the long-running academic fraud case that involved students and athletes at the school over an 18-year period.

When asked Sunday during an ESPN interview at the NCAA tournament's Final Four about the chances that North Carolina gets hit by NCAA sanctions, Williams said he would be speculating, but "I don't think we're going to get hit in any way at all. Hard to penalize somebody when you have no allegations against them.''

NCAA president Mark Emmert told ESPN on Thursday that the Notice of Allegations against North Carolina should be wrapped up in the coming weeks.

The allegations center on academic fraud involving independent study-style courses in the formerly named African and Afro-American Studies department.

The NCAA's notice treated issues surrounding the courses as improper benefits, limiting the focus to between 2002 and 2011. It charged that a women's basketball adviser provided improper help on assignments. No coaches were cited, but the lack-of-institutional-control charge mentioned counselors' using the courses to keep at-risk athletes eligible "particularly" in football, men's basketball and women's basketball.

When asked to what extent the issuance of the Notice of Allegations has hurt the men's basketball program in areas such as recruiting, Williams said it had damaged the program because it had "painted it in a fairly negative opinion.''

The school originally received a notice of allegations, but then it had to be amended in August, when more violations unrelated to men's basketball were found. That pushed the timeline to release the full notice of allegations into the spring.

"When the first notice of allegations came out, there were no allegations against men's basketball, and we tried to show that,'' Williams said in the ESPN interview from Houston, where the Tar Heels will play for the NCAA championship at 9:19 p.m. ET Monday. "People have to choose what they want to choose, but I knew that's what it's going to be because there was nothing there. We were not involved, but you know the NCAA has their process, and they've got to go through. I think they feel we have cooperated as much as you possibly can and gone through five different investigations, two in-house, one by the former governor, one by a federal prosecutor, now the NCAA, and every one of the them has said, you know, Coach Williams is telling the truth.

"And so that makes me feel better and each time they say it makes me, but still, it's still there, but it's something we've got to put up with. When I came here, and I've been criticized for this, when I came here, I said, "Guys, let's just please just focus on these Final Four teams and the kids and everything, and I've been criticized for that, and I think that's what we should be focusing on."

An independent investigator reported in 2015 that the fraud case spanned more than 18 years and involved more than 3,100 students, roughly half of them athletes. The NCAA reopened its investigation into academic misconduct at the school in 2014.

Williams said he has dealt with more personal attacks on his integrity and credibility.

"That made me a little more combative because that's something that I treasure,'' Williams said. "It's something that's extremely important to me is my credibility, my integrity, and it always used to be that somebody just tried to outwork everyone. Well, that's still the way I feel, but nobody ever attacked me personally like I feel some of the stuff has been more recently. I don't know if I've just gotten to the end and said, 'The heck with it, I'm not going to walk away and not say anything,' or I've just gotten older and don't care."
 
Academic fraud

Institution wide

18 years

African American Studies

Over 3,100 students

Over half were athletes

.....but we're supposed to believe that zero, none, nada, nunca were on the men's basketball team.

I have some swampland in Florida for sale if Roy is buying.


I wouldn't be surprised if UNC ends up with the second worst penalty in the history of the NCAA. They'll never go as far as SMU again, but this one will get close.
 
from espn:

North Carolina coach Roy Williams doesn't expect the men's basketball program to be penalized by the NCAA once it completes its Notice of Allegations into the long-running academic fraud case that involved students and athletes at the school over an 18-year period.

When asked Sunday during an ESPN interview at the NCAA tournament's Final Four about the chances that North Carolina gets hit by NCAA sanctions, Williams said he would be speculating, but "I don't think we're going to get hit in any way at all. Hard to penalize somebody when you have no allegations against them.''

NCAA president Mark Emmert told ESPN on Thursday that the Notice of Allegations against North Carolina should be wrapped up in the coming weeks.

The allegations center on academic fraud involving independent study-style courses in the formerly named African and Afro-American Studies department.

The NCAA's notice treated issues surrounding the courses as improper benefits, limiting the focus to between 2002 and 2011. It charged that a women's basketball adviser provided improper help on assignments. No coaches were cited, but the lack-of-institutional-control charge mentioned counselors' using the courses to keep at-risk athletes eligible "particularly" in football, men's basketball and women's basketball.

When asked to what extent the issuance of the Notice of Allegations has hurt the men's basketball program in areas such as recruiting, Williams said it had damaged the program because it had "painted it in a fairly negative opinion.''

The school originally received a notice of allegations, but then it had to be amended in August, when more violations unrelated to men's basketball were found. That pushed the timeline to release the full notice of allegations into the spring.

"When the first notice of allegations came out, there were no allegations against men's basketball, and we tried to show that,'' Williams said in the ESPN interview from Houston, where the Tar Heels will play for the NCAA championship at 9:19 p.m. ET Monday. "People have to choose what they want to choose, but I knew that's what it's going to be because there was nothing there. We were not involved, but you know the NCAA has their process, and they've got to go through. I think they feel we have cooperated as much as you possibly can and gone through five different investigations, two in-house, one by the former governor, one by a federal prosecutor, now the NCAA, and every one of the them has said, you know, Coach Williams is telling the truth.

"And so that makes me feel better and each time they say it makes me, but still, it's still there, but it's something we've got to put up with. When I came here, and I've been criticized for this, when I came here, I said, "Guys, let's just please just focus on these Final Four teams and the kids and everything, and I've been criticized for that, and I think that's what we should be focusing on."

An independent investigator reported in 2015 that the fraud case spanned more than 18 years and involved more than 3,100 students, roughly half of them athletes. The NCAA reopened its investigation into academic misconduct at the school in 2014.

Williams said he has dealt with more personal attacks on his integrity and credibility.

"That made me a little more combative because that's something that I treasure,'' Williams said. "It's something that's extremely important to me is my credibility, my integrity, and it always used to be that somebody just tried to outwork everyone. Well, that's still the way I feel, but nobody ever attacked me personally like I feel some of the stuff has been more recently. I don't know if I've just gotten to the end and said, 'The heck with it, I'm not going to walk away and not say anything,' or I've just gotten older and don't care."

I can't decide if this is more a case of Roy Boy being an ostrich, an arrogant and entitled POS or if someone on the committee has been slipping tidbits to him. Whatever it is, I can't imagine rooting for him and his team over Nova and Jay Wright, even taking recruiting into account.
 
I can't decide if this is more a case of Roy Boy being an ostrich, an arrogant and entitled POS or if someone on the committee has been slipping tidbits to him. Whatever it is, I can't imagine rooting for him and his team over Nova and Jay Wright, even taking recruiting into account.

I don't want Nova getting their 2nd title before us.
 
I don't want Nova getting their 2nd title before us.
Meh. They're not really a rival in the "hate their guts" sense, like if Georgetown got another title. I do see the recruiting aspect somewhat, but the university life is quite different at the two schools too, and that factors into a kid's decision.
 
I can't imagine rooting for him and his team over Nova and Jay Wright, even taking recruiting into account.
Saint Jay has been caught cheating too. Recruiting violations by way.
 
OrlandoCuse said:
Academic fraud Institution wide 18 years African American Studies Over 3,100 students Over half were athletes ...but we're supposed to believe that zero, none, nada, nunca were on the men's basketball team. I have some swampland in Florida for sale if Roy is buying. I wouldn't be surprised if UNC ends up with the second worst penalty in the history of the NCAA. They'll never go as far as SMU again, but this one will get close.

OR - they've pulled an SEC move, paid who they needed to and threw the woman's team under the bus.

(The media should kill them for this)
 
When did saint jay get caught with violatins?
Slapped on the wrist with two years probation (no sanctions) for multiple violations which added up to a major violation in 2004-05. This on the heels of the phone card thing with Kittles. What do you think would have happened to JB for that?
 
Two words

Rashad McCants

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article69262627.html

Not sure if you've seen this story that came out over the weekend. I'll bullet out the main points.
  • Unless I'm mistaken, basically UNC used the argument that there was never an administered limit in place on the number of hours of independent study classes a student could take and still get their degree until 2006. This significantly narrowed the scope of potential violations.
  • The reporters found a document from 2003 that said there was a long standing limit on the number of independent study hours a student could take while still earning their degree.
  • This is potentially huge because if they allowed student athletes to earn their degrees with a larger number of independent study hours than a non-student athlete that is a large impermissible benefit
  • Opening up the scope of players who fall in this category by removing the 2006 cut off supposedly adds additionally another 100 student athletes to potentially have committed violations dating back to the 90's.
Of course no major media outlets have really ran with it. I didn't expect ESPN to because they want to protect one of their cash cows in UNC basketball but was hoping maybe Yahoo would run something.
 
On the other hand, if UNC bball gets off with no penalties, then we sue and get our penalties rescinded.
 
I think they get away with it. They probably shouldn't be an accredited University though...
 
UNC will be fine, this is not an NCAA issue, but an institutional issue.

I thought the same until that recent article/finding I posted above that provides a link to it being an impermissible benefit. We'll see if it's acknowledged or not by anyone of power.

My thoughts on it being an institutional issue was that nothing would really come of it. The higher powers that be in that state are not going to let the flag ship institution of the state's public college system get hit with any big penalties and risk losses in prestige, funding, research grants, etc. This all very well is going to happen IMHO, that the powerful alumni and legislators in North Carolina are going to make sure they get nothing but barely a slap on the wrist.
 
oldpinepoint said:
UNC will be fine, this is not an NCAA issue, but an institutional issue.

It seems to me that it must be an NCAA issue. They set up sham courses for the purpose of keeping athletes eligible.The courses were run by, not a professor, but a secretary. Without those courses you have scores of ineligible players. If ineligible players were used in a game, those games are forfeit.

This is the same thought process that the NCAA used to strip Boeheim of wins for four ineligible players (1 academic, 3 drug testing).

Someone could make the argument that UNC basketball should lose every win since 1999 due to impermissible benefits of sham courses developed specifically (but not exclusively) for athletes to keep them eligible.

If we knew that all we had to do to get around rules was to edit papers for a bunch of students instead of just Fab, we could have avoided all of this.
 
I think they get away with it. They probably shouldn't be an accredited University though...
Yep. Because the general student population was allowed into the fake classes, there's no impermissible benefit. It's a crock, but that's how it will fall so that UNC will skate. SU, however, will get another 10 year investigation.
 
Yep. Because the general student population was allowed into the fake classes, there's no impermissible benefit. It's a crock, but that's how it will fall so that UNC will skate. SU, however, will get another 10 year investigation.

Doubtful, because that's only one part of this.

The other, far more damaging issue is that fake classes with no real work / attendance / dummy grades artificially inflated athletes' GPAs, which artificially enabled them to stay eligible.

Up until this point, the NCAA has only really responded about the issue you described, but not the one I list above. That's where UNC is going to get hammered. Stay tuned.
 
I'd like to think that RF, but I can guarantee that Ol' Roy gets passed inside information. And if he's not concerned, then I think that's a good hint that nothing of substance is coming down on them.
 
I'd like to think that RF, but I can guarantee that Ol' Roy gets passed inside information. And if he's not concerned, then I think that's a good hint that nothing of substance is coming down on them.

We'll have to see how it plays out. I think that the UNC folks have their heads buried in the sand about this. To say nothing of the swell of anti-NCAA public sentiment that would ensue if the NCAA sweeps this under the rug. If that happens, I think it would take that organization down. They already got a taste of that in the aftermath of Emmert's asinine "wheelhouse" rationalization, when the media hammered them.

UNC isn't getting off lightly this time. Other member institutions won't stand for it, and neither will the sports media.
 
They'll get a lack of institutional control charge. This was pretty much confirmed until they self reported one new issue. I think they get at least a multiple year tourney ban. Not even UNC will be able to escape this debacle.
 

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