Good Ol Roy says No Sanctions for hoops, plus he feels sad...

[orangenirvana]

I don't want Nova getting their 2nd title before us.

Exactly. Go ACC.

Plus I don't want to be one of those sanctimonious lynch-mob dopes who blindly piles on UNC for what may or may not have occurred. If they did blatantly cheat and Roy knew about then they should get penalized for it. Then again the entire amateur student-athlete system is a charade anyway so who gives a turkey if a program worked its way around it a bit when you know damn well it's been happening elsewhere for decades.

 

[Ward]

Yep. Because the general student population was allowed into the fake classes, there's no impermissible benefit. It's a crock, but that's how it will fall so that UNC will skate. SU, however, will get another 10 year investigation.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article69262627.html

Not sure if you saw this link I posted prior in the thread so I reposted here. Even this point is starting to get on shaky ground because the local paper found a document from 2003 that states the limit on credit hours allowed to receive a degree was in place prior to 2006, which completely contradicts UNC's argument to the NCAA.

If they allowed student-athletes to take a higher number of independent study credits while pursuing their degree relative to the typical student then that is by definition an impermissible benefit. Not only that, but if you have student-athletes playing in games while they were receiving impermissible benefits for the last 20+ years I have no idea where you even begin when figuring out the applicable punishment on that when using current reference points.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Of course no major media outlets have really ran with it. I didn't expect ESPN to because they want to protect one of their cash cows in UNC basketball but was hoping maybe Yahoo would run something.

Pat Forde still has JB and Syracuse articles queued up for the next 2-3 months. Maybe by the end of the year he'll get around to ripping UNC, though it's unlikely.

 

[rstone7727]

UNC bwill be fine, this is not an NCAA issue, but an institutional issue.

Exactly, It will take a lot of the shine off a degree from UNC. You can bet there will be some academia types that are/will be up in arms when all is said and done but the AD will dodge the bullet.

 

[BuffOrange]

So their argument in layman terms is what exactly? "Because not everyone who took these fake classes was a b'ball player, it has nothing to do with b'ball."? Even though the fake network was obviously created specifically for hoops and the entire '05 team was enrolled/majored in it?

I'm glad we're not Illinois. Sucks for them that cost them their only 'ship.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Exactly. Go ACC.

Plus I don't want to be one of those sanctimonious lynch-mob dopes who blindly piles on UNC for what may or may not have occurred. If they did blatantly cheat and Roy knew about then they should get penalized for it. Then again the entire amateur student-athlete system is a charade anyway so who gives a turkey if a program worked its way around it a bit when you know damn well it's been happening elsewhere for decades.

Read the article o'sully posted and maybe you won't be blind anymore. It seems very well sourced and documented.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Once again, I'm learning we didn't cheat enough.

Somebody did a paper for Fab? No longer an impermissible benefit if a tutor does the same for any other regularly enrolled student.

Some athletes made money at the YMCA? No longer an impermissible benefit so long as you grab a random coed and hire them at the YMCA.

Some athletes failed drug tests? No longer an impermissible benefit if Frankie Fratboy and Susie Sororitysister have a positive drug test after eating some brownies.

 

[sabach]

Once again, I'm learning we didn't cheat enough.

Somebody did a paper for Fab? No longer an impermissible benefit if a tutor does the same for any other regularly enrolled student.

Some athletes made money at the YMCA? No longer an impermissible benefit so long as you grab a random coed and hire them at the YMCA.

Some athletes failed drug tests? No longer an impermissible benefit if Frankie Fratboy and Susie Sororitysister have a positive drug test after eating some brownies.

This is from the NCAA compliance manual.

Exception for Benefits Available to Other Students (Bylaw 16.01.3) – The receipt of a benefit by a student-athlete or his or her friends that is not authorized by NCAA legislation is not a violation if it is demonstrated that the same general benefit is available to the institution’s students, their relatives, and friends determined on a basis unrelated to athletics ability.

So to answer your question, yes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This is from the NCAA compliance manual.

Exception for Benefits Available to Other Students (Bylaw 16.01.3) – The receipt of a benefit by a student-athlete or his or her friends that is not authorized by NCAA legislation is not a violation if it is demonstrated that the same general benefit is available to the institution’s students, their relatives, and friends determined on a basis unrelated to athletics ability.

So to answer your question, yes.

:bang::bang::bang:

 

[andyw715]

This is from the NCAA compliance manual.

Exception for Benefits Available to Other Students (Bylaw 16.01.3) – The receipt of a benefit by a student-athlete or his or her friends that is not authorized by NCAA legislation is not a violation if it is demonstrated that the same general benefit is available to the institution’s students, their relatives, and friends determined on a basis unrelated to athletics ability.

So to answer your question, yes.

So any school can create an academic program/major called "Breathe and you get an A" which anyone can register for and that's ok?

I guess it is with respect to the permissible benefit charge, but certainly not to actual academic progress. If the SACS tell's UNC to void all grades/credits for the last 15 years of all the students who took the classes, which student-athletes remain academically eligible?

 

[cuse522]

I wonder how much of an impact this has on them getting players to come back instead of declaring for the draft. We're already at a disadvantage in that department with the snow/cold, the girls down south, etc... Throw in that they basically had a high percentage of classes that were automatic As, and their players barely had to go to class at all. That's a major change in the equation when looking at staying vs. declaring early, don't you think?

 

[pearl31]

Not sure if anyone noticed the NCAA/Emmert statements in this AP article posted on syracuse.com a few days ago. To me, it absolutely suggests a preemptive stance by them to explain why UNC is getting off with nothing more than a wrist slap. Basically, it's "well yeah they cheated on a grand scale and we didn't know what to do about it and we're pretty much saying they're too big to fail - but we're putting new rules in place to deter it in the future!"
that's my take anyway

 

[Jack Hall]

Not sure if anyone noticed the NCAA/Emmert statements in this AP article posted on syracuse.com a few days ago. To me, it absolutely suggests a preemptive stance by them to explain why UNC is getting off with nothing more than a wrist slap. Basically, it's "well yeah they cheated on a grand scale and we didn't know what to do about it and we're pretty much saying they're too big to fail - but we're putting new rules in place to deter it in the future!"
that's my take anyway

I know this has been said about 1000x here, but emmert is obviously one of the biggest corrupt clown politicians in all of sports. For him to say- "we cant say this class isnt good enough" is the biggest joke copout. Even if he wasnt being completely disingenuous, it doesnt matter, because multiple UNC emplyees have said that the classes were not good enough, ie they were a complete sham. So this is not a case of the ncaa being in an improper position to judge unc. The judgement has already been made by the university. Unc knows darn well those players werent eligible. All the ncaa has to do is interview a few profs and the profs will tell the ncaa they should not have been eligible. But the ncaa will never ask those questions of unc they way they asked SU. When emmert gets involved with anything it just becomes a complete farce...

 

[Jack Hall]

I would love to be a fly on the wall if emmert ever went to coack k and said: your highness, what should we do about this mess? Lol

 

[BludOrange]

UNC hoops will get nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Other Tarheel spots teams will take the punishment for them, ones that aren't cash cows. The P5 conferences will break away from the NCAA and form their own governing body if the NCAA hits UNC hard with sanctions and Emmert knows this.

 

[Dave85]

UNC will be fine, this is not an NCAA issue, but an institutional issue.

I thought GPA was an NCAA regulation. Oh wait, we do not enforce the laws against our friends. Effin a holes!

 

[Dave85]

This is from the NCAA compliance manual.

Exception for Benefits Available to Other Students (Bylaw 16.01.3) – The receipt of a benefit by a student-athlete or his or her friends that is not authorized by NCAA legislation is not a violation if it is demonstrated that the same general benefit is available to the institution’s students, their relatives, and friends determined on a basis unrelated to athletics ability.

So to answer your question, yes.

"Student-athletes must achieve 90 percent of the institution’s minimum overall grade-point average necessary to graduate (for example, 1.8) by the beginning of year two, 95 percent of the minimum GPA (1.9) by year three and 100 percent (2.0) by year four."

Take out the fake classes and what do you have?

UNC just proves cheaters win. It's the American way.

 

[rrlbees]

They shouldn't look at it as an impermissible benefit thing. It's strictly an eligibility question.

 

[sabach]

They shouldn't look at it as an impermissible benefit thing. It's strictly an eligibility question.

I'm not sure they will do that. They would have to then evaluate every class and program in every school for every player to see if it requires enough school work to "count". Or at least that is what they will say to let UNC off.

 

[jncuse]

If anybody was cheering for UNC tonight... how could they after hearing this asshat talk.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Unless they change the name of the school to Hillary Rodham Clinton University they are toast.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm not sure they will do that. They would have to then evaluate every class and program in every school for every player to see if it requires enough school work to "count". Or at least that is what they will say to let UNC off.

They don't have to evaluate every class and school. They don't when they find violations at other schools. It's already been determined these are sham courses.

 

[RF2044]

They shouldn't look at it as an impermissible benefit thing. It's strictly an eligibility question.

Agree 100%. That's the issue, NOT whether the classes were offered to both athletes / not-athletes.

If a bunch of athletes took non-classes to boost their GPA, it is a BIG problem for UNC. No matter how Emmert attempted to originally categorize their malfeasance.

 

[pearl31]

Sadly, I am all but convinced at this point that:
People pointing to compelling rationale and maintaining that the NCAA hammer is coming down are working from a what *should* happen perspective, and not a what *will* happen perspective.
To me, all the signs are now there that they will skate.

 

[TheCusian]

Sadly, I am all but convinced at this point that: People pointing to compelling rationale and maintaining that the NCAA hammer is coming down are working from a what *should* happen perspective, and not a what *will* happen perspective. To me, all the signs are now there that they will skate.

If that happens I will personal bombard all sports reporters until they write the scathing article they should write. Syracuse vs UNC. It's all right there.