Good Southerland stat to cheer everyone up

[nycfan]

In the 7 games since his return to the team, James has hit a minimum of 3 threes in every single game since coming back. And his shooting has been lights out--- an insane 43.4% from behind the arc in that span. To put that in perspective, of the 3 "big-name" guards we have on the team, incredibly, not a single one of them shoots above 30% from 3-point range. So even though you pessimists will say Southerland's return/shooting hasn't really translated into any "big" wins to this point, that really has more to do with getting nothing out of the 1, 2, and 5 positions as of late (so not to not diss any specific individual players here on the board).

 

[samspann1]

If you take out the blowout vs PC, what are his numbers like since his return?

 

[jekelish]

Does anyone know of a place that tracks +/- for college basketball? I'd be very curious to see what the breakdown is for our guys. James, as you mentioned, has been shooting well but it hasn't translated to wins. He brings one great skill and not much else to the table. I'm curious to know what his +/-, in particular, looks like since there's been some talk of James coming back detracting from the team since it leaves Grant on the bench for most of the game.

 

[Orange Barrel]

If you take out the blowout vs PC, what are his numbers like since his return?

I've never understood this logic. Why shouldn't that game count?

 

[Knicks411]

Does anyone know of a place that tracks +/- for college basketball? I'd be very curious to see what the breakdown is for our guys. James, as you mentioned, has been shooting well but it hasn't translated to wins. He brings one great skill and not much else to the table. I'm curious to know what his +/-, in particular, looks like since there's been some talk of James coming back detracting from the team since it leaves Grant on the bench for most of the game.

luckily for us, we never sub, so just look at our overall plus minus.

Try this http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/plus_minus_avg?games=1&conf=big-east&season=2012-2013&min=10

 

[samspann1]

I've never understood this logic. Why shouldn't that game count?

Take out the worst one too, if you like. I guess I'm more concerned to see how the team and players perform against decent opponents.

 

[nycfan]

If you take out the blowout vs PC, what are his numbers like since his return?

He was 3-3 from downtown versus Providence, so that would bring it down to 20-50, still a fantastic 40%. And to put this in perspective, in terms of percentage, the "lottery pick" is in the 20's, the "4-year starter" is in the 20's, and "the best shooter since GMac" is in the 20's.

 

[jekelish]

luckily for us, we never sub, so just look at our overall plus minus.

Try this http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/plus_minus_avg?games=1&conf=big-east&season=2012-2013&min=10

I'm absolutely astonished that James has such a high +/-, particularly since it's above Otto Porter's, while Otto's is only slightly above Rakeem's.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm absolutely astonished that James has such a high +/-, particularly since it's above Otto Porter's, while Otto's is only slightly above Rakeem's.

don't know if that is all games, or BE only.

 

[Orange Barrel]

Take out the worst one too, if you like. I guess I'm more concerned to see how the team and players perform against decent opponents.

You're missing the point. Why take away anything? His numbers are his numbers.

 

[samspann1]

You're missing the point. Why take away anything? His numbers are his numbers.

My point is that I am more concerned about the team's performance against decent competition.

 

[jekelish]

You're missing the point. Why take away anything? His numbers are his numbers.

For the most part I tend to agree, but who you put those numbers up against and under what circumstances matters. MCW feasted on our non-conference schedule, for instance, but if you take those games away his numbers look pretty mediocre overall. Same kind of concept here.

 

[samspann1]

For the most part I tend to agree, but who you put those numbers up against and under what circumstances matters. MCW feasted on our non-conference schedule, for instance, but if you take those games away his numbers look pretty mediocre overall. Same kind of concept here.

Exactly.

 

[Orange Barrel]

Oh, and "taking away" a game helps reinforce that point. Ok I get it now.

 

[samspann1]

You're getting bent out of shape for no reason.

I will count the battle against PC, if you like.

 

[Gabjon]

Does anyone know of a place that tracks +/- for college basketball? I'd be very curious to see what the breakdown is for our guys. James, as you mentioned, has been shooting well but it hasn't translated to wins. He brings one great skill and not much else to the table. I'm curious to know what his +/-, in particular, looks like since there's been some talk of James coming back detracting from the team since it leaves Grant on the bench for most of the game.

James and CJ were 14-32 from the field today 4-7 from 3pt land. Our guards were 5-21 from the field 1-7 from 3pt land. Our centers were 1-3 from the field with 6 rebs. +/- is the most over used misunderstood stat in basketball. The issue isn't the guys who are producing! It's the guys who are not producing!

 

[jekelish]

James and CJ were 14-32 from the field today 4-7 from 3pt land. Our guards were 5-21 from the field 1-7 from 3pt land. Our centers were 1-3 from the field with 6 rebs. +/- is the most over used misunderstood stat in basketball. The issue isn't the guys who are producing! It's the guys who are not producing!

Did I ever say James was the issue? I said I'm surprised that his plus/minus surprises me, and that I'm disappointed that his coming back has relegated Jerami to bench duty. JB needs to get creative and get Jerami in the game as well, basically.

 

[Orange Barrel]

You're getting bent out of shape for no reason.

?
No.

Take away or count whatever you want. Just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Gabjon]

Did I ever say James was the issue? I said I'm surprised that his plus/minus surprises me, and that I'm disappointed that his coming back has relegated Jerami to bench duty. JB needs to get creative and get Jerami in the game as well, basically.

Never claimed you did. just wanted to point out the flaws in +/-. If player A is on the court while player B is playing like crap player A is penalized.

 

[anomander]

Does anyone know of a place that tracks +/- for college basketball? I'd be very curious to see what the breakdown is for our guys. James, as you mentioned, has been shooting well but it hasn't translated to wins. He brings one great skill and not much else to the table. I'm curious to know what his +/-, in particular, looks like since there's been some talk of James coming back detracting from the team since it leaves Grant on the bench for most of the game.

Ya we have 4 losses. All that matters. We won with grant at Louisville, and JG was a huge factor. Not saying to play grant ahead of him but more of a split would be nice. And none of these 1 minute in embarrassing confidence breaking hooks. James gives up a lot on defense and the glass

 

[Gabjon]

Ya we have 4 losses. All that matters. We won with grant at Louisville, and JG was a huge factor. Not saying to play grant ahead of him but more of a split would be nice. And none of these 1 minute in embarrassing confidence breaking hooks. James gives up a lot on defense and the glass

Here are the numbers:
At Louisville:
Triche: 9-13 fg; 5-7 3pt fg; 0-1FT; 6rebs; 2ast; 1TO; 23pts
Grant: 4-10 fg; 0-1 3pt fg; 2-2FT; 5rebs; 1ast; 1blk; 1TO; 10pts in 35mins

Today:
Triche: 2-11fg; 0-3 3pt fg; 4-4FT; 4rebs; 5ast; 7TOs; 8pts
James: 5-12fg; 3-5 3pt fg; 0-0FT; 7rebs; 1ast; 2stl; 1blk; 2TOs; 13pts in 33mins

James' defensive fell off his first few games back but he has righted that ship in the last couple of games, but Grant is not a better rebounder than James.

 

[anomander]

James' defensive fell off his first few games back but he has righted that ship in the last couple of games, but Grant is not a better rebounder than James.

i have to respectively disagree with you here. I feel Grant is by far our best rebounder. I have never seen someone grab a rebound over Grant. James on the other hand seems to happen consistently.

one other thing about Grant is his improved jumper. i watched him during warm ups and he made 20 consecutive 17 foot jump shots. i am by no means saying play grant 30 mins, but he shouldn't have been diminshed to DC territory. the 1 minute hook was absurd. JB has broken him. for what reason? i have no clue. he could have been the x-factor come March.

 

[OttoMets]

i have to respectively disagree with you here. I feel Grant is by far our best rebounder. I have never seen someone grab a rebound over Grant. James on the other hand seems to happen consistently.

one other thing about Grant is his improved jumper. i watched him during warm ups and he made 20 consecutive 17 foot jump shots. i am by no means saying play grant 30 mins, but he shouldn't have been diminshed to DC territory. the 1 minute hook was absurd. JB has broken him. for what reason? i have no clue. he could have been the x-factor come March.

This happened as recently as today, when Dieng got a putback with 6:29 to go in the first half. Caught Grant spectating on the weak side. And it's not the first time that has happened. This is not a team that has strong rebounding forwards.

Agree that the instant hook was disgraceful, though, just as it has been with Fab, Christmas, and Coleman before him. Terrible mishandling of the player (again).

 

[djcon57]

Here are the numbers:
At Louisville:
Triche: 9-13 fg; 5-7 3pt fg; 0-1FT; 6rebs; 2ast; 1TO; 23pts
Grant: 4-10 fg; 0-1 3pt fg; 2-2FT; 5rebs; 1ast; 1blk; 1TO; 10pts in 35mins

Today:
Triche: 2-11fg; 0-3 3pt fg; 4-4FT; 4rebs; 5ast; 7TOs; 8pts
James: 5-12fg; 3-5 3pt fg; 0-0FT; 7rebs; 1ast; 2stl; 1blk; 2TOs; 13pts in 33mins

James' defensive fell off his first few games back but he has righted that ship in the last couple of games, but Grant is not a better rebounder than James.

Pointing to the rebound totals and stating one is better than the other is LAUGHABLE. Jeremi had 1 rebound vs GTown. He also got a foul called on a GTown player (because he boxed out), another player grabbed a board (because he boxed out), the one board was an offense rebound. Also, he was outrebounded by a GTown player and let up a putback 0 times.


James got 7 boards today and about 4 fell into his hands. That happens when you are on the weakside of the zone.

I watch the game. With my two eyes. One player (Grant) routinely boxes out, One does not. It's literally not close.

 

[anomander]

This happened as recently as today, when Dieng got a putback with 6:29 to go in the first half. Caught Grant spectating on the weak side. And it's not the first time that has happened. This is not a team that has strong rebounding forwards.

Agree that the instant hook was disgraceful, though, just as it has been with Fab, Christmas, and Coleman before him. Terrible mishandling of the player (again).

I think it's a discredit to even mention Grant with those other names for their freshman years. Grant has proven he can play at a high level against elite teams, in huge spots. Those others proved nothing as freshman. He may have given up a rebound today (i must have missed it), but i think he is easily the best weak side rebounder we have, and is definitely the best help defender. . He always seems to be in the right position to slide over at the perfect time. His basketball IQ is extremely high, even as a freshman. If I was him I would be pissed off big time. I guess that's the chances you take when playing the zone. JB teaches zone rebounding, so players literally just are told to go and chase the ball