Grad Transfers

[pfister1]

So many people have suggested that we can supplement our recruiting class by getting in the Grad transfer market earlier and harder this year. I'm wondering, is that really a possibility and how does one tactfully do it?

You can't recruit another school's players, or at least I assume that that is a gentlemen's rule, if there is no absolute prohibition. So, when does the grad transfer market begin to take shape? Clearly you can look at the pool of players and try to determine who might be in line to graduate and still have eligibility remaining, but I assume there is no way to know for sure short of contacting a player whether he'll be in line to graduate. So are we left to wait until the summer to mine this resource, or can it be done earlier than that.....and, if so, how exactly do you tap that resource without going after a player who hasn't formally announced an intent to leave the school he is at.

Thinking back at this past summer, folks here were afraid to mention Tyler Cavanaugh's name as a possibility and that was over the summer after the season had concluded?

Is the grad transfer market really a real route for picking up players, or just one that you can occasionally experience some good fortune in, as we did this season?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You can't talk to another player until he receives a release.

Which usually doesn't happen until after the season ends.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I think SU has put up the bat signal now. We took 2 last year and have openings now.

Good pg's and good shooters that qualify and want it should be inquiring.

 

[dasher]

you talk to their high school and aau coaches while you are talking to them about someone else. Hey, how is jimmy joe doing at hopeless state? Too bad about that injury his freshman year. Looking back, we really wish we would have recruited him harder back then.

 

[Jasoncuse]

This is the route the program is going to have to take this spring/summer. With likely 6-7 players, at most, set to be on the 2017-2018 roster, the team needs to add at least 3 more players, whether it's grad transfers or HS seniors that we may not be aware of.

There will once again be a ton of grad transfers available, and as long as AW and JG continuing having success, you'd have to believe we'll be a top option for the best of the best.

 

[RF2044]

So many people have suggested that we can supplement our recruiting class by getting in the Grad transfer market earlier and harder this year. I'm wondering, is that really a possibility and how does one tactfully do it?

You can't recruit another school's players, or at least I assume that that is a gentlemen's rule, if there is no absolute prohibition. So, when does the grad transfer market begin to take shape? Clearly you can look at the pool of players and try to determine who might be in line to graduate and still have eligibility remaining, but I assume there is no way to know for sure short of contacting a player whether he'll be in line to graduate. So are we left to wait until the summer to mine this resource, or can it be done earlier than that...and, if so, how exactly do you tap that resource without going after a player who hasn't formally announced an intent to leave the school he is at.

Thinking back at this past summer, folks here were afraid to mention Tyler Cavanaugh's name as a possibility and that was over the summer after the season had concluded?

Is the grad transfer market really a real route for picking up players, or just one that you can occasionally experience some good fortune in, as we did this season?

I think we have to view it as a new potential feeder / source for recruiting moving forward. Wouldn't make sense to not tap into this source, if other teams are doing so and benefitting from it.

Last summer, people didn't want to mention Cavanaugh's name because he hadn't declared his intention to transfer, and our coaches pursuing him would have been akin to tampering. So that was kind of a one-off situation.

The main time frame for 5th year transfers begins after the season ends, at which point players can make their intentions known. But it can go into the summer, as players finish school, make later decisions about staying / leaving, etc. I think it is going to take some time for our coaching staff to get a handle on it.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

In reading about this issue, there are unpublished lists created of grad transfers and the market is getting larger. Due to summer sessions a lot of kids graduate in 3 seasons or 3+ a summer session. Contacting kids is done through coaches, family and player to player. Each year the market has gotten stronger and I think it is a currently viable strategy for Syracuse. You're getting 22 year old grown men with college experience. There are a lot of very good players at non P5/ lower P5 schools looking to show they can play on the big stage. US having AWIII and Gillan this year only helps us market how others will be used in the future.

There is some great informational reads on this issue that can be found through a simple Google search.

 

[jordoo]

As the season goes on and SU breaks into the top10 and stays there we will get a lot of attention. The media will love the grad transfer story. I think SU, White and Gillon's success could very well help us get better grad transfers next season and moving forward.

Edit: Not better grad transfers than White but the better guys available each season. White will likely be the only all conference player from P5 school to be a grad transfer.

 

[Oráiste]

someone on the staff should already be working on a spreadsheet tracking every redshirt/4th year junior in the nation, with secondary and tertiary points of contact that gets our potential interest in the air without violating tampering rules

 

[terron]

op great thread and questions i was wondering the same myself

 

[tbonezone]

in these one and done days (even when they don't do diddley squat at syracuse) grad transfer recruiting best become a major science for the staff.
and while i agree it's not the ideal scenario that life raft sure beats treading water waiting for the next boat. it's an adjustment to the new now.

 

[GooseMutt]

So many people have suggested that we can supplement our recruiting class by getting in the Grad transfer market earlier and harder this year. I'm wondering, is that really a possibility and how does one tactfully do it?

You can't recruit another school's players, or at least I assume that that is a gentlemen's rule, if there is no absolute prohibition. So, when does the grad transfer market begin to take shape? Clearly you can look at the pool of players and try to determine who might be in line to graduate and still have eligibility remaining, but I assume there is no way to know for sure short of contacting a player whether he'll be in line to graduate. So are we left to wait until the summer to mine this resource, or can it be done earlier than that...and, if so, how exactly do you tap that resource without going after a player who hasn't formally announced an intent to leave the school he is at.

Thinking back at this past summer, folks here were afraid to mention Tyler Cavanaugh's name as a possibility and that was over the summer after the season had concluded?

Is the grad transfer market really a real route for picking up players, or just one that you can occasionally experience some good fortune in, as we did this season?

The 2016 grad transfer list had close to 100 players on it

 

[Jack Hall]

in these one and done days (even when they don't do diddley squat at syracuse) grad transfer recruiting best become a major science for the staff.
and while i agree it's not the ideal scenario that life raft sure beats treading water waiting for the next boat. it's an adjustment to the new now.

Couldnt agree more, get used to it. Not every year but close.

If we cant touch uk and duk for young guy one n done, then you pretty much have to go old guy one n done. Could be just as effective...

 

[HoustonCuse]

In many ways a 5 and done is better than a 1 and done. The players are more mature and experienced, they have known expiration dates that aid in personnel planning, and you have fewer unknowns about what their actual performance will be.

Some have seen reliance on these transfers as a weakness but in a world where players stay one or two years anyway, why would we care what the source is. Especially given that factor of you don't have the risk of getting surprised like Ennis and Mali.

For instance, does anybody think that QG would have been substantially better than JG?

 

[Mainsqueeze]

With a lot of these 5th year guys it's going to depend on playing time. I believe we looked at Antonio Barton a few years ago but he wanted to start and we ennis and cooney starting. Gillon was from a lower school so he was probably more willing to back up and fight for min. White probably wanted to start and get min. And we could offer that with cooney and Mali gone. Plus JB lets those guys take 5-7 threes a game so easy to convince white he will get lots of shots.

Let's say next year Howard and battle stay. They are starting and getting lots of minutes. So we have to convince someone to back them up. Although battle can start at the three. Maybe a little harder to convince a top fifth year guy to come here.

Say battle leaves then it should be pretty easy to get some one. We would have and open spot at the 2 and 3.


Also this assumes Lyndon gone.

 

[Mainsqueeze]

I'm surprised there isn't a list of eligible 5th year transfer

 

[pfister1]

In many ways a 5 and done is better than a 1 and done. The players are more mature and experienced, they have known expiration dates that aid in personnel planning, and you have fewer unknowns about what their actual performance will be.

Some have seen reliance on these transfers as a weakness but in a world where players stay one or two years anyway, why would we care what the source is. Especially given that factor of you don't have the risk of getting surprised like Ennis and Mali.

For instance, does anybody think that QG would have been substantially better than JG?

I don't disagree that an experienced one and done can be better than an inexperienced one and done...assuming the talent levels are relatively similar. But, having to go this route is absolutely a weakness. The reason is that these kids don't really become available until about 6 months before the season starts. If you get that late in the recruiting cycle and still have major rotational holes to fill, that is not a good position to be in. I mean I don't think you would intentionally take a pass on filling out your roster in the hopes that a grad transfer might be available later in the cycle.

We aren't talking about guys that are solid low Division I players that are transferring to be the 10th man on the roster. While we could take that kind of guy, no one really cares about that. We are talking about guys that are good enough to crack high division I starting lineups or at least be the 6th man on a really good team.


As I see it is this is really a means of last resort because of the timing. It is just really, really late to be making plans for guys you want to be a major part of your rotation. If you end up in the position where you have gone through other means of completing your roster and you get to that point with a big hole in the roster because of early entry losses or poor recruiting classes than this is a GREAT way to try to fill that hole. But I don't think it is a real way to proactively plan to try to fill your roster.

 

[Zcuse]

I don't disagree that an experienced one and done can be better than an inexperienced one and done...assuming the talent levels are relatively similar. But, having to go this route is absolutely a weakness. The reason is that these kids don't really become available until about 6 months before the season starts. If you get that late in the recruiting cycle and still have major rotational holes to fill, that is not a good position to be in. I mean I don't think you would intentionally take a pass on filling out your roster in the hopes that a grad transfer might be available later in the cycle.

We aren't talking about guys that are solid low Division I players that are transferring to be the 10th man on the roster. While we could take that kind of guy, no one really cares about that. We are talking about guys that are good enough to crack high division I starting lineups or at least be the 6th man on a really good team.


As I see it is this is really a means of last resort because of the timing. It is just really, really late to be making plans for guys you want to be a major part of your rotation. If you end up in the position where you have gone through other means of completing your roster and you get to that point with a big hole in the roster because of early entry losses or poor recruiting classes than this is a GREAT way to try to fill that hole. But I don't think it is a real way to proactively plan to try to fill your roster.

I don't know that anyone on this thread thinks it should be the focus. Rather, it is a perfect by-product of the current state of college hoops for Syracuse to utilize where necessary. It seems our draft-able players declare at a 90% plus clip, even if they spent 80%+ of the year off all mock draft forecasts. Good for those players, but challenge for the program to stack prospects. This is a perfect way to deal w unexpected attrition in key places. If we get a reputation as a destination that helps these transfers get the spotlight and flourish, like mentioned above, even better! Helps in years we swing and miss on big fish recruits as well obviously...

On another note. I personally think the transfer rule/ trend is a good thing for the student athlete. If they have graduated, why not be able to experience something different from the school they picked at 17 or 18? We happen to be on a very short list of schools where the grass would almost never be greener for a potential heavy contributor. And if in the the future one of our good players happens to be the 5th guard or forward, or 3rd center, and wanted to play his last year where he could get more pt, change of scenery, etc. Good for them...