Grant is Hak 2.0

[CusefanATL]

100%
I hate being "he shouldn't go pro guy"...as if he's lottery, he should definitely go.

But would love to get him for 1 more year to work on some smoother back to the basket moves and increase his range some.

the issue with coming back 1 more year to work on the same things he can learn while working 50-60 hours a week professionally vs 20 hours a week in college... is that if he doesn't improve - it shows nba scouts that he has 1 less year to learn.

Sometimes - its better to go before being exposed or injured.

Just pointing out the contrarian view. IMO he is prob 60-40 gone. Would be a nice gift if he stayed... but Im kind of guessing he wont.

And I'll be fine with the decision either way.

 

[CusefanATL]

Hak was long but he didn't jump off the chart.

 

[O'Cafe]

Jerami has committed some peccadilloes: I can't recall Hakim ever having a dunk blocked - if he was within range it was getting PUNCHED (although he might've clanged one or two ridiculous attempts off the rim in his first year) - but Jerami got stuffed last night and I think I recall prior stuffings as well. Nobody stuffed Warwick's dunks. That flat-footed one he put on ND from about 8 feet away from the hoop - YIKES...

Hak's dunk over a 6'10 dude, flat footed from the box was absolutely ridiculous, even better than the tea bagging of Royal Ivey

 

[O'Cafe]

Forgot... props to señor Palmer

 

[billsin01]

the issue with coming back 1 more year to work on the same things he can learn while working 50-60 hours a week professionally vs 20 hours a week in college... is that if he doesn't improve - it shows nba scouts that he has 1 less year to learn.

Sometimes - its better to go before being exposed or injured.

Just pointing out the contrarian view. IMO he is prob 60-40 gone. Would be a nice gift if he stayed... but Im kind of guessing he wont.

And I'll be fine with the decision either way.

It's an interesting discussion one way or the other, but I'd argue that the key to a successful NBA career -- regardless of where you end up being drafted -- is being the best possible player you can be by your second contract. That's the real money (in NBA terms, not for the average Joe, of course). To me, going before you're ready simply b/c you're lottery is, at times, selling yourself short. Now this is probably more of an issue with big guys like Melo and the like, b/c you need to be on the court to improve at that level. A guy like Hibbert is a really interesting example -- stayed four years, not a superior athlete per se but has made a good career for himself by being ready for the NBA by the time he arrived. My concern with Grant going early is that if his offensive game looks unpolished at the collegiate level and his defense is spotty at best, how does he get on the floor? Yes, you work 50-60 hours and you don't give scouts an extra year to find every knock on your game, but if you walk into the NBA with Grant's athleticism and a consistent 15-footer, it's probably plenty to get you legit minutes. If you don't have that jumper, I'm not sure you ever end up getting the minutes anywhere.

Will he leave or stay? I have no idea and I'm not sure there's a 'wrong' decision, but a guy like Grant seems more likely to benefit from that extra year in college.

 

[billsin01]

I agree. But grant is off the charts athletically. Hak was long but he didn't jump off the chart. Grant has soooo much more upside

He jumped off the chart but didn't have the quickest feet nor was he as quick off the floor, IMO. Obviously both guys are phenomenal athletes but I'd say it was Hak's polish that put him ahead of Grant, not his edge in explosiveness.

 

[orangefan13]

I still love this one by Hak super underated.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'll just leave this here...

I didn't know that I needed this gif in my life, but now that it's here, I don't know how I would continue without it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Hak's dunk over a 6'10 dude, flat footed from the box was absolutely ridiculous, even better than the tea bagging of Royal Ivey

I agree. I don't know if I'll ever see a better in-game dunk in my life.

 

[orangefog]

I'll just leave this here...

Check out Ryan Andersen grabbing air as Jerami goes about a foot higher in an instant.

 

[Garbs]

It's an interesting discussion one way or the other, but I'd argue that the key to a successful NBA career -- regardless of where you end up being drafted -- is being the best possible player you can be by your second contract. That's the real money (in NBA terms, not for the average Joe, of course). To me, going before you're ready simply b/c you're lottery is, at times, selling yourself short. Now this is probably more of an issue with big guys like Melo and the like, b/c you need to be on the court to improve at that level. A guy like Hibbert is a really interesting example -- stayed four years, not a superior athlete per se but has made a good career for himself by being ready for the NBA by the time he arrived. My concern with Grant going early is that if his offensive game looks unpolished at the collegiate level and his defense is spotty at best, how does he get on the floor? Yes, you work 50-60 hours and you don't give scouts an extra year to find every knock on your game, but if you walk into the NBA with Grant's athleticism and a consistent 15-footer, it's probably plenty to get you legit minutes. If you don't have that jumper, I'm not sure you ever end up getting the minutes anywhere.

Will he leave or stay? I have no idea and I'm not sure there's a 'wrong' decision, but a guy like Grant seems more likely to benefit from that extra year in college.

I could be wrong but I don't think Hibbert was a projected first rounder before his senior year, hence why he stayed

 

[NineOneSeven]

Have to disagree here (also haven't read any replies, only the thread title, so apologize is repeating what others have said).

I agree with the athleticism, but it ends there.

Hak was absolutely incredible on the low block with his back to the basket. Grant hasn't showed this as being part of his game. Hak also never quite showed the range Grant has on his J. Grant also seems to be a better ball handler, but still needs to get better and finishing on his drives.

 

[ForeverOrange]

It's an interesting discussion one way or the other, but I'd argue that the key to a successful NBA career -- regardless of where you end up being drafted -- is being the best possible player you can be by your second contract. That's the real money (in NBA terms, not for the average Joe, of course). To me, going before you're ready simply b/c you're lottery is, at times, selling yourself short. Now this is probably more of an issue with big guys like Melo and the like, b/c you need to be on the court to improve at that level. A guy like Hibbert is a really interesting example -- stayed four years, not a superior athlete per se but has made a good career for himself by being ready for the NBA by the time he arrived. My concern with Grant going early is that if his offensive game looks unpolished at the collegiate level and his defense is spotty at best, how does he get on the floor? Yes, you work 50-60 hours and you don't give scouts an extra year to find every knock on your game, but if you walk into the NBA with Grant's athleticism and a consistent 15-footer, it's probably plenty to get you legit minutes. If you don't have that jumper, I'm not sure you ever end up getting the minutes anywhere.

Will he leave or stay? I have no idea and I'm not sure there's a 'wrong' decision, but a guy like Grant seems more likely to benefit from that extra year in college.

The only problem with that logic is that with a player like Hibbert he can afford to stay 4 years because he was a legit 7 footer. You can't teach 7 foot, so it's not inconceivable that the nba would be more patient with Hibbert's development. Players with Grant's height and athletic ability are a dime a dozen, so teams would be more keen to zoom in on his deficiencies the more he stays and not so much on how he's developed.

 

[Garbs]

The only problem with that logic is that with a player like Hibbert he can afford to stay 4 years because he was a legit 7 footer. You can't teach 7 foot, so it's not inconceivable that the nba would be more patient with Hibbert's development. Players with Grant's height and athletic ability are a dime a dozen, so teams would be more keen to zoom in on his deficiencies the more he stays and not so much on how he's developed.

please name a dozen players in college basketball with Grant's height and athleticism

 

[ForeverOrange]

please name a dozen players in college basketball with Grant's height and athleticism

I don't have the time to pull them out, but there's a pretty good list of players with similar height and athleticism.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...ketball/24088271/cbssportscom-top-100-players

You would be able to pull out way more people in Grant's mold, then 7 footers in the mold of Hibbert. More options, less patience.

 

[Garbs]

I don't have the time to pull them out, but there's a pretty good list of players with similar height and athleticism.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...ketball/24088271/cbssportscom-top-100-players

You would be able to pull out way more people in Grant's mold, then 7 footers in the mold of Hibbert. More options, less patience.

similar height yes, but I doubt there are many with his athleticism

 

[billsin01]

I could be wrong but I don't think Hibbert was a projected first rounder before his senior year, hence why he stayed

I agree, though I don't know for sure either. My point was that regardless of where he could have been drafted or was drafted, the guy's work to make himself NBA ready basically from Day 1 was a huge part of his career success. There aren't many 'learn-on-the-job' types like Fab Melo who actually stick in the NBA. 7-footers or not.

 

[billsin01]

The only problem with that logic is that with a player like Hibbert he can afford to stay 4 years because he was a legit 7 footer. You can't teach 7 foot, so it's not inconceivable that the nba would be more patient with Hibbert's development. Players with Grant's height and athletic ability are a dime a dozen, so teams would be more keen to zoom in on his deficiencies the more he stays and not so much on how he's developed.

I don't know that I understand your logic on this. Hibbert stayed 4 years but drastically improved each year -- I remember an article in the post where one coach was saying the first day of practice he would have been shocked if Hibbert could actually tie his shoes (obviously I'm paraphrasing, but the point is he was incredibly raw). He's had success in the NBA b/c he's 7-feet tall, but also because he's a solid athletic talent who developed an outstanding all-around game that got him on the floor at the next level.

If Grant's athleticism and body type are a dime a dozen, then the only way he's going to stick is by being the better basketball player. That doesn't happen in the D League very often. His best bet of having a long NBA career is by being ready for the NBA when he's drafted. A more consistent jumper, a bit better handle, more consistent effort, a better understanding of the game -- those are all things that would drastically improve his chances of a lucrative second contract regardless of what his rookie deal is.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't know that I understand your logic on this. Hibbert stayed 4 years but drastically improved each year -- I remember an article in the post where one coach was saying the first day of practice he would have been shocked if Hibbert could actually tie his shoes (obviously I'm paraphrasing, but the point is he was incredibly raw). He's had success in the NBA b/c he's 7-feet tall, but also because he's a solid athletic talent who developed an outstanding all-around game that got him on the floor at the next level.

If Grant's athleticism and body type are a dime a dozen, then the only way he's going to stick is by being the better basketball player. That doesn't happen in the D League very often. His best bet of having a long NBA career is by being ready for the NBA when he's drafted. A more consistent jumper, a bit better handle, more consistent effort, a better understanding of the game -- those are all things that would drastically improve his chances of a lucrative second contract regardless of what his rookie deal is.

I read that article - I think the quote came from Big John. Hibbert was a total project as a recruit.

 

[ForeverOrange]

I don't know that I understand your logic on this. Hibbert stayed 4 years but drastically improved each year -- I remember an article in the post where one coach was saying the first day of practice he would have been shocked if Hibbert could actually tie his shoes (obviously I'm paraphrasing, but the point is he was incredibly raw). He's had success in the NBA b/c he's 7-feet tall, but also because he's a solid athletic talent who developed an outstanding all-around game that got him on the floor at the next level.

If Grant's athleticism and body type are a dime a dozen, then the only way he's going to stick is by being the better basketball player. That doesn't happen in the D League very often. His best bet of having a long NBA career is by being ready for the NBA when he's drafted. A more consistent jumper, a bit better handle, more consistent effort, a better understanding of the game -- those are all things that would drastically improve his chances of a lucrative second contract regardless of what his rookie deal is.

I'm not trying to debate with you man, because in all honesty you could make points for both staying and going, at the end of the day sometimes staying works, and sometimes it doesn't. After thinking about it, I really don't know what makes these NBA execs have more patience for some and less for others outside of character issues.

 

[billsin01]

I'm not trying to debate with you man, because in all honesty you could make points for both staying and going, at the end of the day sometimes staying works, and sometimes it doesn't. After thinking about it, I really don't know what makes these NBA execs have more patience for some and less for others outside of character issues.

Yeah, I'm with you. It's also hard to hear someone say you'll be a top 15 pick and say, 'nah, I'm gonna work real hard in college for another year. Thanks anyway.' My only point was that a kid like Fab clearly needed to develop. Are you better off doing that in the NBA with 100% of your time focused on hoops or in college? Tough to answer. Hard to say it was a bad move for Melo b/c obviously doing the minimum required to stay eligible seemed to be too much for him. But it's hard to say it was a great move either b/c despite a ton of talent he's not very likely to ever see real money in the nba.

I'm more inclined to say a kid like Ennis should go. Now I want him to stay and think there's plenty of argument for him to stay, but I'm not sure he's really going to get that much better. More consistent shooter/finisher, probably he'll get stronger, but ultimately it's not huge.