Great coaches are great right away

[dasher]

Our two best coaches Coach Ben first 7 years 4-5, 5-5, 5-4, 7-3, 5-3-1, 4-4, 5-3 Okay, maybe not Ben but coach Mac turned this program over night. His first 6 years 4-6-1, 2-9, 6-5, 6-5, 7-5, 5=6, Okay not Coach Mac but in the pros they turn it right around. Take coach Parcells first year 3-12-1. Many Giant fans wanted him out. The Giant brass went as far as talking to Snellingberger. Bill Belichicks first 4 years, 6-10, 7-9. 7-9 and I think his first year with the Pats was a disaster. Oh. and 4 time super bowl winner Chuck Noll went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8. Sometimes it takes time guys. And while I'm at it, Coach K was 27-30 in his first two years at Duke. They must have loved him.

 

[Bayside44]

Our two best coaches Coach Ben first 7 years 4-5, 5-5, 5-4, 7-3, 5-3-1, 4-4, 5-3 Okay, maybe not Ben but coach Mac turned this program over night. His first 6 years 4-6-1, 2-9, 6-5, 6-5, 7-5, 5=6, Okay not Coach Mac but in the pros they turn it right around. Take coach Parcells first year 3-12-1. Many Giant fans wanted him out. The Giant brass went as far as talking to Snellingberger. Bill Belichicks first 4 years, 6-10, 7-9. 7-9 and I think his first year with the Pats was a disaster. Oh. and 4 time super bowl winner Chuck Noll went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8. Sometimes it takes time guys. And while I'm at it, Coach K was 27-30 in his first two years at Duke. They must have loved him.

I don't mean to sound snarky but those are all ages and ages ago.

 

[OrangeAl]

I don't mean to sound snarky but those are all ages and ages ago.

It's still wins and losses, whether it's 1914 or 2014. Do coaches just jump into greatness now as opposed to then?

 

[Crusty]

Our two best coaches Coach Ben first 7 years 4-5, 5-5, 5-4, 7-3, 5-3-1, 4-4, 5-3 Okay, maybe not Ben but coach Mac turned this program over night. His first 6 years 4-6-1, 2-9, 6-5, 6-5, 7-5, 5=6, Okay not Coach Mac but in the pros they turn it right around. Take coach Parcells first year 3-12-1. Many Giant fans wanted him out. The Giant brass went as far as talking to Snellingberger. Bill Belichicks first 4 years, 6-10, 7-9. 7-9 and I think his first year with the Pats was a disaster. Oh. and 4 time super bowl winner Chuck Noll went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8. Sometimes it takes time guys. And while I'm at it, Coach K was 27-30 in his first two years at Duke. They must have loved him.

We all know these numbers ad nauseam - I have been guilty of posting them myself. The problem is that there are just as many (probably a great many more) coaches that started out poorly and stayed that way. If someone figures out how to tell them apart let everyone know.

 

[Bayside44]

It's still wins and losses, whether it's 1914 or 2014. Do coaches just jump into greatness now as opposed to then?

A lot of other factors now - we're talking college so money and recruiting and the constant media attention and keeping up with the joneses is a little different these days.

 

[NashvilleOrange]

It really depends on the situation. People were writing off Bielema and all of the sudden he's leading the hottest team in college football. At the same time two of the best offensive minds - Malzahn and Petrino have been great right away.

 

[dasher]

I don't mean to sound snarky but those are all ages and ages ago.

Not snarky at all but still, learning a craft can take time. SS felt he could hire his friends and they could take off. They couldn't. In every case I used, people wanted those coaches out. Here at Syracuse we had the sack mac and I know you remember that.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Our two best coaches Coach Ben first 7 years 4-5, 5-5, 5-4, 7-3, 5-3-1, 4-4, 5-3 Okay, maybe not Ben but coach Mac turned this program over night. His first 6 years 4-6-1, 2-9, 6-5, 6-5, 7-5, 5=6, Okay not Coach Mac but in the pros they turn it right around. Take coach Parcells first year 3-12-1. Many Giant fans wanted him out. The Giant brass went as far as talking to Snellingberger. Bill Belichicks first 4 years, 6-10, 7-9. 7-9 and I think his first year with the Pats was a disaster. Oh. and 4 time super bowl winner Chuck Noll went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8. Sometimes it takes time guys. And while I'm at it, Coach K was 27-30 in his first two years at Duke. They must have loved him.

Tow to three seasons is not enough…it can take a little longer. We have made some progress O feel in recruiting and that will eventually translate to the field.

 

[texascpa]

We all know these numbers ad nauseam - I have been guilty of posting them myself. The problem is that there are just as many (probably a great many more) coaches that started out poorly and stayed that way. If someone figures out how to tell them apart let everyone know.

And yet, we have many on here who believe they know the difference.

 

[OrangePA]

Good post.

Point well taken.

If we are talking about Scott Shafer, it is important to note that he did not inherit a program headed in the wrong direction or at the bottom.

He inherited a program with improved top to bottom athletic ability. And, he won seven games his first year.

Lets hope he is another Ben, or Bill or Bill or Mac.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I am willing to give coaches time if they do smart things and don't do dumb things.

I've seen some dumb things this season.

I'll be really disappointed if we see dumb things next season.

 

[Millhouse]

Not snarky at all but still, learning a craft can take time. SS felt he could hire his friends and they could take off. They couldn't. In every case I used, people wanted those coaches out. Here at Syracuse we had the sack mac and I know you remember that.

I'm not seeing much evidence of learning. Lots of coaches are just who they are

 

[KaiserUEO]

Not snarky at all but still, learning a craft can take time. SS felt he could hire his friends and they could take off. They couldn't. In every case I used, people wanted those coaches out. Here at Syracuse we had the sack mac and I know you remember that.

Tom Coughlin won in year 2 at BC, Jax & the Giants. Bill Parcells won in year 2 with Giants and won everywhere else basically right away.

SS has crashed and burned in year 2, and seems exposed as a an overmatched meathead to punt, I mean boot.

Some people need a year and some people should be fired.

I've seen enough and I have no problem spending other people's $$$...FIRE SS!!

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I don't mean to sound snarky but those are all ages and ages ago.

Nowadays fans expect six wins and a bowl berth at the minimum. And considering a lot of schools get two fairly easy wins out of the gate you really only need to go 4-6 at that point. Or you could be like Rutgers and get four easy wins and then go 2-6 in conference and be bowl eligible.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/164/rutgers-scarlet-knights

 

[xc84]

It's still wins and losses, whether it's 1914 or 2014. Do coaches just jump into greatness now as opposed to then?

Name a great coach who was hired for his first HC job within the last 3 years!!

 

[xc84]

Tom Coughlin won in year 2 at BC, Jax & the Giants. Bill Parcells won in year 2 with Giants and won everywhere else basically right away.

SS has crashed and burned in year 2, and seems exposed as a an overmatched meathead to punt, I mean boot.

Some people need a year and some people should be fired.

I've seen enough and I have no problem spending other people's $$$...FIRE SS!!

Shafer won in year one at SU.

 

[xc84]

Good post.

Point well taken.

If we are talking about Scott Shafer, it is important to note that he did not inherit a program headed in the wrong direction or at the bottom.

He inherited a program with improved top to bottom athletic ability. And, he won seven games his first year.

Lets hope he is another Ben, or Bill or Bill or Mac.

No...but the timing for Marrone quitting didn't really help Shafer's recruiting a whole heck of a lot that first signing period.

 

[Scooch]

Can we move this thread to the Correlation Is Not Causation forum?

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Our two best coaches Coach Ben first 7 years 4-5, 5-5, 5-4, 7-3, 5-3-1, 4-4, 5-3 Okay, maybe not Ben but coach Mac turned this program over night. His first 6 years 4-6-1, 2-9, 6-5, 6-5, 7-5, 5=6, Okay not Coach Mac but in the pros they turn it right around. Take coach Parcells first year 3-12-1. Many Giant fans wanted him out. The Giant brass went as far as talking to Snellingberger. Bill Belichicks first 4 years, 6-10, 7-9. 7-9 and I think his first year with the Pats was a disaster. Oh. and 4 time super bowl winner Chuck Noll went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8. Sometimes it takes time guys. And while I'm at it, Coach K was 27-30 in his first two years at Duke. They must have loved him.

I don't remember ever liking a post as much as this one in a very long time. Sane, logical, factual and to the point.
Great job, great post!

Thank You!!

Have a Great Thanksgiving.

 

[Crusty]

I don't remember ever liking a post as much as this one in a very long time. Sane, logical, factual and to the point.
Great job, great post!

Thank You!!

Have a Great Thanksgiving.

Just remember, using that logic GRob would still be here!

 

[SUskibum]

A lot of other factors now - we're talking college so money and recruiting and the constant media attention and keeping up with the joneses is a little different these days.

More money (and games) have been lost at the hands of that logic (it's different this time) than almost any other. Basic tenets don't change as often as most people think they do.

 

[SUskibum]

I am willing to give coaches time if they do smart things and don't do dumb things.

I've seen some dumb things this season.

I'll be really disappointed if we see dumb things next season.

It's really really hard to argue with anything in that post.

 

[007]

I don't remember ever liking a post as much as this one in a very long time. Sane, logical, factual and to the point.
Great job, great post!

Thank You!!

Have a Great Thanksgiving.

Mrs. Dasher? The lion avatar threw me off.

 

[CuseOnly]

I'm not seeing much evidence of learning. Lots of coaches are just who they are

In Bellichik's (insert good coach's name here that failed initially) first 4 seasons I didn't see much evidence of learning either, same with coach Mac...same decisions, same strategy. They seemed to change who they are...

So you are saying you can tell who is going to change and be a good coach? What about good coaches that are going to fail eventually? Are you Nostradamus?

EDIT: I would like to know who Michigan and Florida are going to hire and if they are going to be successful. If you don't mind.

 

[Deano]

Our two best coaches Coach Ben first 7 years 4-5, 5-5, 5-4, 7-3, 5-3-1, 4-4, 5-3 Okay, maybe not Ben but coach Mac turned this program over night. His first 6 years 4-6-1, 2-9, 6-5, 6-5, 7-5, 5=6, Okay not Coach Mac but in the pros they turn it right around. Take coach Parcells first year 3-12-1. Many Giant fans wanted him out. The Giant brass went as far as talking to Snellingberger. Bill Belichicks first 4 years, 6-10, 7-9. 7-9 and I think his first year with the Pats was a disaster. Oh. and 4 time super bowl winner Chuck Noll went 1-13, 5-9, and 6-8. Sometimes it takes time guys. And while I'm at it, Coach K was 27-30 in his first two years at Duke. They must have loved him.

In regards to Coach K, until he got a little assistance (boosters and $$$) Dook was never a huge program. One final four before then doesn't say much.