Great exposure for the program...

[Alsacs]

Wins in how long? If it takes more that 2.5 years, he is toast. Remember, like Shafer right...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

EDIT: If I were a coach, I would avoid SU like the plague unless I was overly compensated to do the job.

It's as easy as doing a Ben Franklin and looking at the positives and negatives of the job. The negatives are huge, the positives are very small.

BC giving Spaziani a 4th year was such a great decision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Spaziani

If you suck as a coach you shouldn't automatically get 4 years. Dasher nailed it. SS makes bad decision after bad decision and we still have people refusing to acknowledge it.

No coach is guaranteed a certain set of years. If a coach can move from the school to another job after 1 or 2 years then a school should be able to make the same move. If we keep SS we are praying for 6 wins next year. Sorry I don't want to pray for a miracle. SS is a good man but if we care about FB as a school we need to actually attempt to upgrade at HC and invest in the program.

 

[Scooch]

What coaches this year so far have been fired after 2-3 years?

8 weeks into the season?

 

[iommi]

What coaches this year so far have been fired after 2-3 years?

How many coaches in their 2nd and 3rd years have been as inept as Shafer? Have some coaches in their 2nd or 3rd years improved? Has Scott Shafer?

 

[anomander]

Wins in how long? If it takes more that 2.5 years, he is toast. Remember, like Shafer right...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

EDIT: If I were a coach, I would avoid SU like the plague unless I was overly compensated to do the job.

It's as easy as doing a Ben Franklin and looking at the positives and negatives of the job. The negatives are huge, the positives are very small.

If he doesn't win in 2.5 years, and is losing the way Shafer is then you get rid of him too.

And what HC would go into a job thinking well if i'm getting my asss beat for 2.5 years straight they might fire me. That's not how coaches think. They think they'll go in there and turn it around right away. This isn't a profession where HC's lack confidence. I guarantee they aren't going into this thinking "what if I lose".

 

[Alsacs]

What coaches this year so far have been fired after 2-3 years?

So basically the best our program can do is Scott Shafer as HC?

 

[CuseOnly]

Apparently nobody did the Ben Franklin of taking the job at Syracuse.

 

[Willy75]

BC giving Spaziani a 4th year was such a great decision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Spaziani

If you suck as a coach you shouldn't automatically get 4 years. Dasher nailed it. SS makes bad decision after bad decision and we still have people refusing to acknowledge it.

No coach is guaranteed a certain set of years. If a coach can move from the school to another job after 1 or 2 years then a school should be able to make the same move. If we keep SS we are praying for 6 wins next year. Sorry I don't want to pray for a miracle. SS is a good man but if we care about FB as a school we need to actually attempt to upgrade at HC and invest in the program.

Actually Spaz is a good comparison, although I think he had better career hc results than SS. I have BC friends who were apoplectic about him near the end.

 

[TheCusian]

We don't though. That's the thing.

Then we have an offense that scores 30. It's one or the other. That 30ppg isn't a typo.

 

[SUbear]

Not defending anyone, answer the question that I asked...

No coach will come here knowing that he has 2.5 years to get it right or he is fired. Period. Unless of course we are willing to overpay, which you know full well we won't.

You are implying that we should keep a bad coach just because he was hired, that is ridiculous. Do that and just give up all hope of filling the dome or even getting to a break even record.
We kept Gerg longer than we should have and we are still paying for that folly.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Then we have an offense that scores 30. It's one or the other. That 30ppg isn't a typo.

Not tonight, man. Not doing this. Stick to your story. It's fine.

 

[CuseOnly]

So basically the best our program can do is Scott Shafer as HC?

Not sure yet, I don't believe the verdict is in. In most programs loaded with talent, the coaching is evident and can make a difference immediately.

Not here, everyone thinks the rebuild was done under Marrone and Shafer ddin't have to do much to maintain the momentum. I completely disagree and believe that there was a shlit ton of work that still needed to be done.

Unless this administration and AD are willing to over-compensate coaches to come here then I think we are stuck at mediocre at best.

 

[TheCusian]

Very good coaches don't need to spend years tearing down a program an rebuilding. Hell, Marrone won 8 games in his second year. Hire the right guy and we'll be bowling in his second year, if not his first. People are needlessly afraid of changing coaches. Trust Coyle to find the find the right one.

Shafer would have won 8 vs that schedule. (He kinda did, the offense was so bad that year. I kid, I kid).

I do agree that the right guy can win enough to get to 6 with this talent. And that Shafer and this team left 2 wins on the table in UVa and Pitt.

 

[CuseOnly]

You are implying that we should keep a bad coach just because he was hired, that is ridiculous. Do that and just give up all hope of filling the dome or even getting to a break even record.
We kept Gerg longer than we should have and we are still paying for that folly.

Not implying anything, just asking a question that you seem to not want to answer.

 

[Alsacs]

Even including the 47 from URI we have added 20 points from OT. The offense has vastly improved and that is probably he best thing SS has going for him. However, this guy was a secondary coach and supposed defensive guru. Our secondary is 1-AA bad and the coaching is awful.
Speilman embarrassed this staff with his commentary on how secondary were playing. Keeping this coach does nothing but deflate and the taken the air out of a frustrated fanbase. SS is a good man but is in overhead as HC. Next year needs to be a 7 win season for this staff or pointless. Getting to 6-6 next year wouldn't be enough after 2014 and 2015.

 

[Alsacs]

Not implying anything, just asking a question that you seem to not want to answer.

You seem to think no coach will come here. How do you know that. You aren't answering that question. I believe we could get a coach here as we would pay that coach 2.5 million per year and give them a 5 year contract. I think a lot of coaches we would be interested in making 12.5 million dollars.
If a coach thinks SS got a raw deal your living in a bubble. 80 teams of 120 FBS teams go postseason. If you can't make a bowl and be in the top 67% of your profession 2 years in a row with the amount money in the sport good luck keeping your job.

 

[TheCusian]

Not tonight, man. Not doing this. Stick to your story. It's fine.

Me neither. Just thought it was funny.

- our offense scores 20ish ppg
- our team averages 30ish ppg
- but we don't score defense and special teams points to effect the total? I get that it's not as dependable, but I don't see another way to read those numbers

 

[CuseOnly]

You seem to think no coach will come here. How do you know that. You aren't answering that question. I believe we could get a coach here as we would pay that coach 2.5 million per year and give them a 5 year contract. I think a lot of coaches we would be interested in making 12.5 million dollars.
If a coach thinks SS got a raw deal your living in a bubble. 80 teams of 120 FBS teams go postseason. If you can't make a bowl and be in the top 67% of your profession 2 years in a row with the amount money in the sport good luck keeping your job.

Why would I answer the same question that I asked? I am asking the Shafer detractors.

The point is...WHAT GOOD IS A 5 YEAR CONTRACT THAT WE ARE NOT WILLING TO HONOR??????? We gave Shafer the same deal, why would the next coach feel that we would honor the whole contract? Regardless of what you are willing to pay him.

You are an attorney, you know that contract wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on and neither would the next coach or his attorney/agent.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Me neither. Just thought it was funny.

- our offense scores 20ish ppg
- our team averages 30ish ppg
- but we don't score defense and special teams points to effect the total? I get that it's not as dependable, but I don't see another way to read those numbers

I believe Coyle is smart enough to interpret our scoring numbers the way they should be.

 

[Scooch]

Even including the 47 from URI we have added 20 points from OT. The offense has vastly improved and that is probably he best thing SS has going for him. However, this guy was a secondary coach and supposed defensive guru. Our secondary is 1-AA bad and the coaching is awful. Speilman embarrassed this staff with his commentary on how secondary were playing. Keeping this coach does nothing but deflate and the taken the air out of a frustrated fanbase. SS is a good man but is in overhead as HC. Next year needs to be a 7 win season for this staff or pointless. Getting to 6-6 next year wouldn't be enough after 2014 and 2015.

The O still stinks, even if it's better than the worst O ever fielded last year.

 

[Alsacs]

Why would I answer the same question that I asked? I am asking the Shafer detractors.

The point is...WHAT GOOD IS A 5 YEAR CONTRACT THAT WE ARE NOT WILLING TO HONOR??????? We gave Shafer the same deal, why would the next coach feel that we would honor the whole contract? Regardless of what you are willing to pay him.

If you get paid the money on the contract you have nothing to complain about. ND is still paying Charlie Weis. I don't shed a tear as the coach would get his money.

I don't give a crap beyond that. I am not keeping a bad coach another year because I have to pay them if I fire them. That is beyond dumb.

 

[SUbear]

Not implying anything, just asking a question that you seem to not want to answer.

You are implying, that is exactly what implication is. Get a dictionary.

I will make it plain for you, any coach as soon as it is determined his job performance is inadequate should be let go, if he shows no sign of improving his performance. Time on the job is not relevant to that dismissal given an adequate sample size of job performance. In my book 2.5 years is a sample size large enough to make that determination.
I know many jobs where you would not be given that amount of time.

 

[TheCusian]

I believe Coyle is smart enough to interpret our scoring numbers the way they should be.

Yeah that's a completely different question from where this originated (can we somehow score 40 vs NC State of all things).

I'd judge the offense by the 20 ppg.

 

[Ozcuse]

Then we have an offense that scores 30. It's one or the other. That 30ppg isn't a typo.

It's actually 27.7 but whose counting

 

[Willy75]

Why would I answer the same question that I asked? I am asking the Shafer detractors.

The point is...WHAT GOOD IS A 5 YEAR CONTRACT THAT WE ARE NOT WILLING TO HONOR??????? We gave Shafer the same deal, why would the next coach feel that we would honor the whole contract? Regardless of what you are willing to pay him.

You are an attorney, you know that contract wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on and neither would the next coach or his attorney/agent.

Maybe this is too obvious, but the good is that the coach gets paid for the whole five years irrespective of whether he actually coaches. Btw I'm an attorney.

 

[CuseCactus]

Why would I answer the same question that I asked? I am asking the Shafer detractors.

The point is...WHAT GOOD IS A 5 YEAR CONTRACT THAT WE ARE NOT WILLING TO HONOR??????? We gave Shafer the same deal, why would the next coach feel that we would honor the whole contract? Regardless of what you are willing to pay him.

You are an attorney, you know that contract wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on and neither would the next coach or his attorney/agent.

I'm also an attorney. Don't feel sorry for Shafer - or any other P5 coach for that matter. There are virtually 0 jobs in America where you get a 5 year contract, with an automatic buyout if you are fired early - and you are paid north of $1 million a year. It's a joke that this crap is tolerated, much less worried about. Promote performance. Walk away from incompetence.