Greater transparency for fans funding NIL?

[Sbucketball]

This is one of those posts that will be unpopular on this board but probably generally popular elsewhere, for whatever reason. If the fans are expected to fund the NIL payroll, then the fans should be entitled to more transparency into the program, especially for HM football and men’s basketball.

One example would be the fans who fund NIL for a guy like Copeland to come back and develop – most would contribute to his NIL not because they think he would have crushed it sophomore year, but because he showed potential to develop and be good as an upperclassman. So when he cashes the check but transfers before realizing that full potential, and there’s behavioral reasons and the split was mutual, the fans should receive the details, otherwise they’re wondering if they wasted money on him. Same with a guy like Benny who was dismissed after fans paid him to play this season. There was good reason for his dismissal, but there’s fans out there who paid him to play this year (no matter whether as little as buying his NIL shop hoodie or bigger than that) and probably feel like they got robbed if they don’t know the background.

There were posters upset about the decision not to play in the NIT who said they might stop donations. While I was glad we didn't play, I completely understand why some were upset and why they feel like they're throwing their hard-earned money away. They should be told Red's rationale for his decision.

And same with injuries. The fans should know what they’re paying for, which means these guys should have to sign limited HIPAA authorizations or Congress should amend the Act so that team doctors are not covered entities. If fans are paying Chance $150k, they should be assured he can overcome his back-to-back season ending injuries.

If any of this seems unfair, I would say most fans didn't ask for the new system, but they're left with the bill anyway.

Big donors will have access to this information, but even the fan who donates a few hundred or few thousand should know what s/he’s donating to, especially considering that some small donations are big deals to the donor in comparison to what they have. Small donors who don’t understand what’s going on won't be donors for long. And those small donations add up.

More transparency probably won’t happen, largely because making issues public could be bad PR for the program, but this is a different era – the student-athletes in HM sports are basically paid professionals, and the fans have to pay the salary (as compared to pro team owners who get all of this information before making payment) – so things might have to evolve. Just food for thought. The entire structure of college sports will change before anyone gets used to the new era anyway, so whatever.

And before people misconstrue this post – this has nothing to do with Copeland or Benny or the decision to split with them, they’re just the most recent examples of some fans wondering what they're paying for.

 

[jordoo]

Why not a news letter airing team, coaches and players dirty laundry? I'm sure it would do wonders for recruiting and public relations?

 

[Nicknack]

Sounds more than fair to me. Unfortunately, that level of transparency would create other issues that the school won't embrace.

 

[Sbucketball]

Why not a news letter airing team, coaches and players dirty laundry? I'm sure it would do wonders for recruiting and public relations?

In my second to last paragraph I said that's the main reason it won't happen; but, this system basically has the fans acting as the team owner but making payments blind and oftentimes not getting a ROI. That won't last long.

 

[Newhouser]

In my second to last paragraph I said that's the main reason it won't happen; but, this system basically has the fans acting as the team owner but making payments blind and oftentimes not getting a ROI. That won't last long.

I agree it won't last long. I also don't understand why it's not on the school to fund NIL. A number of schools are going to find out how loyal and deep pocketed their fan bases are.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The OP does a great job of illustrating what I think are major problems with the fan driven collectives. The level of transparency asked for I suspect is extremely detrimental to the successful operation of an athletics program.

The collectives feel they can make a claim to it though because they have no product. In the NIL world, businesses have a route to measuring ROI because they're investing in endorsement of their actual product. If a local sandwich shop owner has a special "meet the athletes day" and has the most popular women's basketball player come and pays her $500 for the appearance, that owner is going to know by the end of the day exactly how well that effort impacted sales. If it works, they'll do it again, if not they won't. But that check on the investment matters.

Collectives don't have that check on investment. And since they don't have a product, they believe that their product is the performance of the programs they support. And that becomes a very tricky game.

I'm a hypocrite because I contribute to some collectives and some of our board members have done good work with the Syracuse ones, but in my heart of hearts I can't say NIL is a problem. I can say collectives are though because the incentive structure is all messed up allowing an entity without a product to be in the NIL game.

 

[jordoo]

I agree it won't last long. I also don't understand why it's not on the school to fund NIL. A number of schools are going to find out how loyal and deep pocketed their fan bases are.

I have no problem with the school asking for donations to NIL. But I do think the school should also be finding it as much as is financially feasible.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Why not a news letter airing team, coaches and players dirty laundry? I'm sure it would do wonders for recruiting and public relations?

Every time a female student-athlete misses her period, I'd expect Thamel to tweet about it.

 

[Brooky03]

If you’re a big dollar donor, I’d bet there’s a good chance you could get the details you want to get in 99% of cases.

If you’re a smaller donor, like hundreds or maybe ‘just’ thousands, then I think you’re rightfully in the same group as the non-donors, in terms of what info you can/should get. To pull a quote from Ozark, you don’t get to “know S about F.”

 

[Cuse181]

If you’re a big dollar donor, I’d bet there’s a good chance you could get the details you want to get in 99% of cases.

If you’re a smaller donor, like hundreds or maybe ‘just’ thousands, then I think you’re rightfully in the same group as the non-donors, in terms of what info you can/should get. To pull a quote from Ozark, you don’t get to “know S about F.”

I think this is right but I would still say if it’s clear someone is going to transfer as of the middle of the season, i think it’d be good the collective to know so the dollars could stop flowing out the door.

Is that right and just? Probably not, but dollars are limited for those outside the Fed and they should be getting invested into creating a winning product versus funding someone’s move to Illinois or California.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

The ROI is the particular program winning. Pretty sure that's why a majority of people are donating. I am entrusting the collective to manage and spend to achieve that goal. If they don't win, donations will dwindle in my estimation.

For the amount I'm donating, I don't expect special information about players. At a certain level of donation, I would believ you can gain a bunch of information the general public isn't privy to.

As for Orange United, my preferred collective, I don't believe you can donate to a specific player. The choices I've seen are All sports or a specific sport. I think it's best like that vs. player specific.

 

[SuFTW]

Hopefully at least a chunk of payments are paid out over time and are not an up front lump sum.

 

[djcon57]

The fans should know what they’re paying for, which means these guys should have to sign limited HIPAA authorizations or Congress should amend the Act so that team doctors are not covered entities. If fans are paying Chance $150k, they should be assured he can overcome his back-to-back season ending injuries.

I get a lot of your points but this one is wild.

"Have to sign". Who's forcing them to sign this.
Congress? Based on what. What's the public concern here?

If you don't want to "donate" to NIL because you are concerned with injuries, don't donate to NIL.

 

[orangecuse]

I agree it won't last long. I also don't understand why it's not on the school to fund NIL. A number of schools are going to find out how loyal and deep pocketed their fan bases are.

It's a complete crock IMO! And, I've paralleled it to being the owner of some multi million dollar business entity where the owner, rather incredulously, get your customers to buy in to paying for your employees raises, promotions, etc. And, just as incredulous, keeping 100% of the financial benefits all to yourself.

Now, that's far more "amazing" than anything Coach K continuously uttered was "amazing."

 

[Sbucketball]

I get a lot of your points but this one is wild.

"Have to sign". Who's forcing them to sign this.
Congress? Based on what. What's the public concern here?

If you don't want to "donate" to NIL because you are concerned with injuries, don't donate to NIL.

It's not wild at all - that's how professional sports work. And college sports are turning into a less talented professional sports league.

If that rule applies to Buddy Boeheim to make 500k on a two-way paid by a billionaire franchise owner, why shouldn't it apply to Hunter Dickenson to make many multiples of that salary paid by fans?

 

[llandz]

I can tell you for a fact, that big donors do not get the information either. I happen to know one or two quite closely. When they have the info, I know it. It depends on what the information is. There are a lot of privacy laws, and also NIL and athletics have to have a degree of separation.

 

[djcon57]

It's not wild at all - that's how professional sports work. And college sports are turning into a less talented professional sports league.

If that rule applies to Buddy Boeheim to make 500k on a two-way paid by a billionaire franchise owner, why shouldn't it apply to Hunter Dickenson to make many multiples of that salary paid by fans?

Because Buddy Boeheim is in a union that has agreed to those terms

 

[Sbucketball]

Because Buddy Boeheim is in a union that has agreed to those terms

Yes, the NBA has a collective bargaining agreement, but that's irrelevant to the point -- the point being why shouldn't the people who write the payroll checks demand a similar level of transparency into injuries, especially since that transparency is available in just about every major sports league where athletes are paid for a living. College sports are currently the outlier, not the norm.

 

[djcon57]

Yes, the NBA has a collective bargaining agreement, but that's irrelevant to the point -- the point being why shouldn't the people who write the payroll checks demand a similar level of transparency into injuries, especially since that transparency is available in just about every major sports league where athletes are paid for a living. College sports are currently the outlier, not the norm.

You can demand it all you want and the player can say "Nah, I'm going to go somewhere that doesn't demand it".

That's the point. There's no way to enforce what you are requesting.

 

[Sbucketball]

You can demand it all you want and the player can say "Nah, I'm going to go somewhere that doesn't demand it".

That's the point. There's no way to enforce what you are requesting.

A CBA applies to all programs - that’s how the NBA does it. It’s not on a team by team basis. It’s universal. Look at every single pro sports league. Anyways, doesn’t matter because as I said the whole structure will probably completely change before any of this stuff is addressed anyway.

 

[BomberOrange]

I agree it won't last long. I also don't understand why it's not on the school to fund NIL. A number of schools are going to find out how loyal and deep pocketed their fan bases are.

Agree! The whole NIL thing was based in the school and coaches getting so much $$$$$ and the players getting nothing. Now the schools and coaches are still getting all that $$$ and the donors are paying for the players. Makes no sense.

 

[ar inj]

Yes, the NBA has a collective bargaining agreement, but that's irrelevant to the point -- the point being why shouldn't the people who write the payroll checks demand a similar level of transparency into injuries, especially since that transparency is available in just about every major sports league where athletes are paid for a living. College sports are currently the outlier, not the norm.

If you are one of the ones "writing" the payroll checks than write that into your contract. If the contract you have entered into does not have those obligations than do not enter into the contract or seek the better deal that you want.

 

[Cusefan0307]

 

[Cuseball]

And that makes perfect sense in this environment. I think if the coach/program is asking for $500k from an individual they should have communication with the donor as to who they are targeting. Letting the big donors and even smaller donors know the direct impact will help. Coach may even need to sell the rationale for who he wants . It’s a different world but to be at the forefront you need to take the extra steps.