Greg Robinson didn't do much for Syracuse

[LeMoyneCuse]

But he did bring in Nassib, Sales, Lemon and Pugh.

I'd venture to guess that we're not where we are now without any one of those four.

But do you really think Nassib, Lemon, and Pugh would have developed into the players they are right now thanks to Greg Robinson's coaching staff? If you want to give Robinson credit, fine. But you have to admit that's about 5% of the equation at best.

 

[Obie9]

Randy Trivers. Who was retained for 1 season.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Bees. Randy did not recruit Alec or convince him to stay after the staff was let go. I don't claim to know much on the football side of su athletics, but this I know for sure. I'm friends with Desmond, speak to him regularly, and have met alec's family on a few occasions. Don't want to get into specifics because of my relationship with Desmond.

 

[rrlbees]

Bees. Randy did not recruit Alec or convince him to stay after the staff was let go. I don't claim to know much on the football side of su athletics, but this I know for sure. I'm friends with Desmond, speak to him regularly, and have met alec's family on a few occasions. Don't want to get into specifics because of my relationship with Desmond.

Check your inbox.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[OttoinGrotto]

But do you really think Nassib, Lemon, and Pugh would have developed into the players they are right now thanks to Greg Robinson's coaching staff? If you want to give Robinson credit, fine. But you have to admit that's about 5% of the equation at best.

That's a different discussion completely.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

That's a different discussion completely.

How is that a different discussion? Give Robinson all of the credit you want for getting Lemon, Pugh, Nassib, and Sales on campus. It's true.

But how much did Sales and Nassib develop while red-shirting in 2008? Would they be nearly as successful as they are right now if they had played under Robinson for a longer stretch of time?

Would these four players even be relevant or even matter if Robinson was the coach for more time? Who cares who recruited them if they didn't develop into quality players. And they didn't spend the majority of their college careers developing under the guy who first identified them.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

How is that a different discussion? Give Robinson all of the credit you want for getting Lemon, Pugh, Nassib, and Sales on campus. It's true.

But how much did Sales and Nassib develop while red-shirting in 2008? Would they be nearly as successful as they are right now if they had played under Robinson for a longer stretch of time?

Would these four players even be relevant or even matter if Robinson was the coach for more time? Who cares who recruited them if they didn't develop into quality players. And they didn't spend the majority of their college careers developing under the guy who first identified them.

I think the length of your post suggests why that's a different discussion. You asked a bunch of hypothetical questions that we can't ever really answer, we can just discuss. So... yeah, different discussion. People want to debate whether Lemon and Pugh were Marrone recruits, fine. The Robinson staff is what got their initial interest.

Look, all I know is this - when those four guys were all eligible to play our record was 14 and 7. That seems meaningful to me. We all know Robinson fell short, but it seems he did enough to provide a better coach with the chance at more success.

I have no idea why this thread is getting so many people's boxers in a bunch.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[billsin01]

Lemon and Pugh committed in 2009 which was Morrone's first class. Many of them were holdover verbals (Lemon for sure) from GRob.

DM purged a bunch of other verbals as well. Since DM had the final say over who signed...I think both Lemon and Pugh should be credited to HCDM.

Come on. If those dudes sucked you can be damn well sure everyone would be throwing them in the "See, GRob couldn't recruit!" arguments. This is absolutely inarguable. Plus, recruiting isn't like a 2-month process. The previous staff identified, offered early and impressed them enough to get verbals. I'm not a GRob fan by any means but the fact remains -- he found some pretty good players from time to time. His recruiting was far from great, but it was in no way, shape or form as bad as most folks here want to say it was.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I have no idea why this thread is getting so many people's boxers in a bunch.

Because it gives the unintentional implication that Marrone isn't that good of a coach- he has to rely on players brought in by his immense failure of a predecessor.

 

[RMH44]

Come on. If those dudes sucked you can be damn well sure everyone would be throwing them in the "See, GRob couldn't recruit!" arguments. This is absolutely inarguable. Plus, recruiting isn't like a 2-month process. The previous staff identified, offered early and impressed them enough to get verbals. I'm not a GRob fan by any means but the fact remains -- he found some pretty good players from time to time. His recruiting was far from great, but it was in no way, shape or form as bad as most folks here want to say it was.

DM pretty much purged most of the GRob verbals because he felt they couldn't/wouldn't play. Lemon and Pugh were two of the very few verbals that were honored, therefore, DM and staff had the last say.

I'm not attempting to take anything away from GRob. In fact, I think he did a above average job recruiting considering the mess he inherited and exacerbated.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Because it gives the unintentional implication that Marrone isn't that good of a coach- he has to rely on players brought in by his immense failure of a predecessor.

What? You can't be serious.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

What? You can't be serious.

I don't post unless I've completely over-thought something.

 

[Obie9]

Maybe im missing something here. You are doing the same with grobs former coaching staff. Based on the many comments here, im surprised any of grobs staff ever got coaching jobs. They all suck, right. I think many of grobs coaches are just as happy to be away from the su program as you are.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't post unless I've completely over-thought something.

I can't fault you for it.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[xc84]

Because it gives the unintentional implication that Marrone isn't that good of a coach- he has to rely on players brought in by his immense failure of a predecessor.

You are right. There is that implication by many and many say it flat out. Yes, you can be serious about that. In fact, to imply that Marrone had nothing to do with the recruitment of Lemon and Pugh is utterly ridiculous. In the end, both of those players signed to play for Doug Marrone. GRob was long gone by Feb. 2009 when they signed.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

In fact, to imply that Marrone had nothing to do with the recruitment of Lemon and Pugh is utterly ridiculous.

Ugh. Who's implying that? I'm not saying that.

I should have known better. Heaven forbid a post tries to portray Robinson as anything but an idiot.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[OrangeAl]

Two things are clear about each coach:
1. GROB brought some good players to SU, but the program went in a bad direction under his leadership.
2. HCDM has gotten the program back in shape and his recruiting seems to improve every year.

 

[xc84]

Ugh. Who's implying that? I'm not saying that.

I should have known better. Heaven forbid a post tries to portray Robinson as anything but an idiot.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Who said he was an idiot? Not me. Heaven forbid someone posts that Marrone had something to do with two recruits who signed for him in Feb. 2009.

 

[kirbivore]

wanted to clear up the recruiting timeline and please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone playing in year five this season signed their LOI in February 2008, so they are the final complete GROB class. HCDM took the job in December 2008 and his first season was 2009. The Feb. 2009 LOI day included GROB verbals that Marrone kept on and any late signings that HCDM picked up. That class will play it's 5th season in 2013. Are there any GROB verbals from recruiting class 2009 that will play a 5th year in 2013?

 

[SmilinBob]

GRob could get some pretty good players to come play on the Hill but a lot of the recruits were huge reaches with guys with little talent/size or speed. The overall depth of Marrone's classes each year have been better/faster/stronger.

 

[xc84]

I believe that GRob had 6 verbal commitments when he was removed. Marrone re-recruited and offered only 3 of them...Phillips, Pugh and Lemon. So, 50% of the recruits were deemed by Marrone to be not worthy of an offer. Add to them, the 20+ who left or were pressured to leave and you get a good picture of GRob's recruiting legacy. Why on earth someone would want to devote a thread to how GRob was a good recruiter is beyond me.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why on earth someone would want to devote a thread to how GRob was a good recruiter is beyond me.

There is a big difference between making the statement that for all his shortcomings Robinson at least gave us 4 core players on offense, and making the statement that Robinson was a good recruiter. Go ahead and let that distinction get lost amid your chest thumping, by all means.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[longislandcuse]

Omg you people need to relax. Im on board with Marrone, this team, and our future as a program under him. We are clearly an infinitely better team than at any time under GROB. All OIG is trying to say is that our "Core 4" Nassib, Lemon, Sales, Pugh were GROB recruits, yes HCDM had to decide to keep them/re-recruit them but do you think if GROB never had them in the fold already that HCDM wouldve went out a gotten them here on his own? Its 4 good players that committed to a GROB team and HCDM kept them and probably coached them into better players than they couldve ever dreamed of under GROB.

 

[xc84]

GRob recruited 2 players and had a hand in recruiting the other 2...so what? I read some idiot on another forum say that Jerome Smith was a GRob recruit too because GRob talked to him in 11th grad (I have no idea if that is true)! I just don't get the point of saying that 4 good players are "GRob's"at this time. Why bother? It ignores the many of his recruits who were not good. It ignores the fact that GRob's classes had no theme. It ignores the fact that these 4 players were coached by the current staff...and who knows, maybe became good/reached their potential because of the current staff. I'm relaxed as I write this.

 

[longislandcuse]

GRob recruited 2 players and had a hand in recruiting the other 2...so what? I read some idiot on another forum say that Jerome Smith was a GRob recruit too because GRob talked to him in 11th grad (I have no idea if that is true)! I just don't get the point of saying that 4 good players are "GRob's"at this time. Why bother? It ignores the many of his recruits who were not good. It ignores the fact that GRob's classes had no theme. It ignores the fact that these 4 players were coached by the current staff...and who knows, maybe became good/reached their potential because of the current staff. I'm relaxed as I write this.

Im pretty sure OttointheGrotto agrees with everything you wrote, hes just pointing out the irony of our Core 4 being recruited when GROB was here. Thats all. I dont think hes saying we should bow down before GROB and thank him for these 4, because if GROB was here those 4 probably would have never reached the levels they have under a real coach in Marrone.

 

[SWC75]

I agree with he point that crediting Robisnon with some of the current success just because of when they verbaled is a stretch. You'd also have to give Robinson some "credit" for the 7 game losing streak, which involved a bunch of his recurits, as well.

The other question, of course, is how well will we replace these players? They represent major losses but the Marrone recruits that will be competing for their positions look like they could turn out to be pretty good.