Group Develops Backup Plan for Aging Carrier Dome

[sutomcat]

Tastes and technology change.

Cookie cutter multi-purpose stadiums were all the rage in the 60's and 70's (Shea, The Vet, Three Rivers, Riverfront, Busch). 30 years later, every MLB team wanted "friendlier confines", so more intimate stadiums were build (Citi, CBP, PNC, Great American, Busch II).

In the NFL. the only stadiums built in the 80's-90's were either outdoor (Sun Life, BoA, FedEx, M&T, RayJames, First Energy, LP, PBS, Mile High), or fixed roof domes (Georgia, Ed Jones).

I'm not sure the technology needed for the Georgia Dome (opened 1992) or the Edward Jones Dome (1995) was readily available in 1979 when the Carrier Dome was built. At least not for $27 mil.

In the 21st Century, even fixed roof domes have been supplanted by retractable roof facilities (Reliant, UofP, Lucas, ATT).

Who knows what the rage will be in the next 15-30 years?

The technology to build fixed roof domes existed well before the air supported domes started getting built. The Astrodome was built in 1965, the SuperDome was built in 1975, the Kingdome was built in 1976, etc.

The problem with this type of dome was the cost. Even a small, low feature fixed roof dome like the Kingdome cost $67 million in 1976 ($278 million today), while the MetroDome, which opened in 1982, cost $68 million ($195 million in dollars today).

Air supported domes are by far the cheapest way to build a dome; this is inherent in how they are built and all the costs that are saved when you go with a solution with a dramatically lighter roof.

Unfortunately, true cost includes initial outlay of funds and ongoing upkeep/maintenance. History has proven that the ongoing costs for air supported domes has been an issue.

Props to Pete Sala and his crew for doing a remarkable job keeping the Carrier Dome from ever having a catastrophic failure, despite all the near misses. Props also to the Chancellor for doing due diligence regarding studying what the true risks are depending on an air supported dome and looking at ways to mitigate them.

I am not advocating replacing the Dome. I am not advocating renovating it either.

I am saying that given the history of the air supported domes and the climate of Syracuse, NY, catastrophic failures of the Carrier Dome roof are only a question of time. I hope this can be addressed before we have one, because if we do, it is going to be a really ugly and expensive mess for SU and the SU fanbase.

 

[Millhouse]

Possible?

while others have had rips

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/manager_of_syracuses_carrier_d.html

“It’s our worst nightmare,” Sala said of the Metrodome’s collapse under 2 feet of snow early Sunday morning. “Those guys are going through hell right now.”

Sala said what happened in Minnesota could just as easily happen in Syracuse. “I’ve been telling everybody at the university,” said Sala, “you’re as vulnerable as the next big snowstorm.”

A major snowstorm walloped the Central New York region just last week, dumping roughly 4 feet of snow on Syracuse over the course of four days. “I didn’t sleep from Sunday night to Thursday,” Sala said. “You get so stressed out, it’s just incredible. It’s a nightmare.”

In Minneapolis, workers were on the Metrodome’s roof for seven straight hours on Saturday. But on Saturday evening, high winds forced workers to come down off the roof around 6 p.m. The roof collapsed around 5 a.m. on Sunday.

“They did everything they should have done,” Sala said of the Metrodome officials.

Far be it from me to impugn the motives of the great Pete Sala but maybe the best option is to risk his guys going through hell and pay them handsomely to do it. If I were him, I'd be saying the exact same thing. There's no upside for him to have risk anything. But just because he wants the least risk possible doesn't mean it's the best idea for those paying for it

 

[Millhouse]

not misleading. here's the key point: there is a pattern failure with air supported Domes

This creates significant risk.

his point is not misleading as long as you ignore everything that you don't think is key

 

[OrangePA]

Possible?

while others have had rips

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/manager_of_syracuses_carrier_d.html

“It’s our worst nightmare,” Sala said of the Metrodome’s collapse under 2 feet of snow early Sunday morning. “Those guys are going through hell right now.”

Sala said what happened in Minnesota could just as easily happen in Syracuse. “I’ve been telling everybody at the university,” said Sala, “you’re as vulnerable as the next big snowstorm.”

A major snowstorm walloped the Central New York region just last week, dumping roughly 4 feet of snow on Syracuse over the course of four days. “I didn’t sleep from Sunday night to Thursday,” Sala said. “You get so stressed out, it’s just incredible. It’s a nightmare.”

In Minneapolis, workers were on the Metrodome’s roof for seven straight hours on Saturday. But on Saturday evening, high winds forced workers to come down off the roof around 6 p.m. The roof collapsed around 5 a.m. on Sunday.

“They did everything they should have done,” Sala said of the Metrodome officials.

So, yes it's possible.

 

[OrangeDW]

There is certainly one thing wrong. The air-supported fabric roof is vulnerable to rips. That's why it is the only one of its kind remaining. A rip at the wrong time will result in a bit of chaos and revenue lost for the university and CNY businesses while waiting for it to be fixed. I agree with it being a good place to watch a game. I love the dome too but the roof is an accident waiting to happen especially in the winter during basketball season.

It hasn't been a problem for 34 years...if they keep replacing it when needed, why would it be a problem going forward?

 

[xc84]

It hasn't been a problem for 34 years...if they keep replacing it when needed, why would it be a problem going forward?

Read what Sala said. It's not about what has or has not happened in the past. It is about the risk related to the technology...the fabric of the roof. It's like a car manufacturer decides not to recall a model because most people had no issue...yet. They always screw themselves when that happens. It is inevitable the roof rips. Sala basically craps his pants every major snowfall. When it rips, it will be chaotic. They can't really plan for it because no one can plan for the exact date of it to ensure another facility is available for those dates. It will result in losses for the university and for CNY.

 

[SmilinBob]

The answer is actually pretty simple. Build 81 over the dome. New roof new highway.

 

[OttoMets]

Far be it from me to impugn the motives of the great Pete Sala but maybe the best option is to risk his guys going through hell and pay them handsomely to do it. If I were him, I'd be saying the exact same thing. There's no upside for him to have risk anything. But just because he wants the least risk possible doesn't mean it's the best idea for those paying for it

Right. He's a biased, interested party; he's in a position to exaggerate; and he's being quoted by a newspaper that has a history of publishing quotes in articles that fall somewhere between inaccurate and deliberately misleading.

I'm not excited about participating in another of these threads, but certainly everyone can agree that the merits of this can be discussed without invoking that newspaper quote attributed to Pete Sala again.

 

[cpatrocks]

As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with the Dome - nothing.

I guess you don't sit on the aluminum benches.

 

[xc84]

Right. He's a biased, interested party; he's in a position to exaggerate; and he's being quoted by a newspaper that has a history of publishing quotes in articles that fall somewhere between inaccurate and deliberately misleading.

I'm not excited about participating in another of these threads, but certainly everyone can agree that the merits of this can be discussed without invoking that newspaper quote attributed to Pete Sala again.

Yeah... because we all know more about the dome than the manager of the dome.

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah... because we all know more about the dome than the manager of the dome.

every single thread about the dome gets derailed by people who are really bad at reading

 

[xc84]

every single thread about the dome gets derailed by people who are really bad at reading

Yeah... I should trust our resident expert on every topic (that's you) v. the person who manages it. "We can't trust him because he works there!!! For that reason, he would be more inclined to lie and exaggerate."

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah... I should trust our resident expert on every topic (that's you) v. the person who manages it. "We can't trust him because he works there!!! For that reason, he would be more inclined to lie and exaggerate."

that's better than your prior post

whatever sala wants, sala gets! money shmoney!

 

[CuseOnly]

that's better than your prior post

whatever sala wants, sala gets! money shmoney!

Good, I hope he wants me to get a new truck...and a new solid retractable roof for the Dome.

 

[SU2NASA]

every single thread about the dome gets derailed by people who are really bad at reading

Seriously, it's not rocket science.

 

[xc84]

 

[xc84]

 

[TexanMark]

My thoughts: I was for a new retractable roofed stadium when announced.

A Carrier Dome redo does has certain advantages:

1. Being on campus in the original spot of Archbold Stadium and is iconic and we are emotionally attached to it.
2. Probably the easiest location for students to get too
3. Local businesses around Marshall Street will continue to prosper on game day after the redo
4. The Dome should be able to stay open for most of Football Season and all of the Basketball Season
5. Lacrosse could easily be moved to a different venue during renovations
6. Major work on the Dome could be spread over 2-3 years (this will add costs)
7. I would close the Dome from early March to late September for 2 or 3 consecutive years for the renovations
8. Schedule more road games in September, Have a Met Life game each season of the redo, consider a 1-AA home game at Cornell versus Colgate or play two years in a row at Buffalo versus the Bulls.
9. Get with the Lawyers and see if Carrier Corp (UTC) first will agree to pay more money, then see if legally you can resell the naming rights.
10. Using the existing RR Line for fan transport from Destiny/Downtown is a must and minimum needed action
11. Investigate a lightrail line from the Airport/RTC/Destiny/Inner Harbor/Franklin Square/Downtown/Armory/East Genesee St/University/Skytop
12. Incorporate the light rail Right of Way access into the I-81 plan during the design phase
13. Improve existing lots to enhance aesthetics, tailgating and safety
14. Part of the redo I would: Build a motel/recruiting lounge/restaurant/TV production center/big donor indoor parking on the west side, install individual seat backs in premium areas, wire up seats
15. Improve concessions to actually cook food inside on game day
16. The TV production Center should be part of Newhouse. Work with the ACC to have these Syracuse facilities as a Conference asset in TV/Radio/Media productions for the conference.