Harvard Gameday...

[cuselaxss26]

I don’t think kittleberger went over as he was completely stationary when camera pan over. If look back ya see him run to the corner of midfield but never see him cross. Still would have given 3 guys baxk. Now bowen def went over n was on his way back to let dwan go. But i don’t think kittleberger ever crossed leaving figgy dwan n kittleberger baxk. Honestly hard with that camera angle at all n ref didn’t even seem to move or look when camera pan over. Also possible he didn’t see chuck go off n mis counted who knows. Either way something like that can’t happen that late in game n just got ball back n chance to win.

Which brings me to my next thing. Our guys need to stop wouldnt say arguing with refs but if call made can be upset but get back n be ready. Their not gonna wait to continue while u argue to never change thing mind or call. Times call made n we stand staring at refs to show our distraught n other team gets jump on us for not being ready. Drop ball n get to where need be. Never once saw player argue with refs n actually changed their mind or hold game up to let them change refs mind.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

Kittleberger was actually over with Bowen but Hottle was back on the box side. For some reason as we were moving up field he stepped over one step and the ref saw him. Game of inches.

 

[PhatOrange]

I don’t think kittleberger went over as he was completely stationary when camera pan over. If look back ya see him run to the corner of midfield but never see him cross. Still would have given 3 guys baxk. Now bowen def went over n was on his way back to let dwan go. But i don’t think kittleberger ever crossed leaving figgy dwan n kittleberger baxk. Honestly hard with that camera angle at all n ref didn’t even seem to move or look when camera pan over. Also possible he didn’t see chuck go off n mis counted who knows. Either way something like that can’t happen that late in game n just got ball back n chance to win.

Which brings me to my next thing. Our guys need to stop wouldnt say arguing with refs but if call made can be upset but get back n be ready. Their not gonna wait to continue while u argue to never change thing mind or call. Times call made n we stand staring at refs to show our distraught n other team gets jump on us for not being ready. Drop ball n get to where need be. Never once saw player argue with refs n actually changed their mind or hold game up to let them change refs mind.

The comment I bolded is the only question I have. Count forward, not back. Was there 7 guys in the offensive end? If the answer is yes then we were offsides.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

The comment I bolded is the only question I have. Count forward, not back. Was there 7 guys in the offensive end? If the answer is yes then we were offsides.

When Hottle stepped over we had too many.

 

[cuselaxss26]

yea couldn’t count forward as camera angle only showed single player n the 2 feet around him. Either way like said can not make a mistake like that. But i also think it happens to us cause we have guys going up who have no reason to like dwan or even grave when here or both of them. If dwan had ball clearly that’s reason. But times seen him or even lsm not have ball n just go running up anyway why? Dwan unless he’s got ball or a head start or his passing lane sets it up then fine. But if not stay baxk why make a middie stay just so ya can try to score. Same with the last LSm specially if their guy isn’t behind them. If ur guy is with ya running up or even ahead just get off. As think some of confusion n offsides happens cause of this kind stuff. Maby i’m wrong but can’t make those mistake at critical point of game.

Also is it me or is joey more looking to score then feed this year. He is prob one if not best feeders in game. He needs to use it. Feel he has not pass to open guys at times n then direct them to help him get to goal instead just making pass. Not saying he’s selfish but possibly could want that all time cuse record bad enough to force himself more. Love seeing leo with 4 assist, think bear has to now improve on his passing specially off dodge. As he had made terrible passes prob are even his Turnovers when he tries to dish rock off a dodge.

I think we could put beck baxk at close to guard burns who to me seems more of finisher or offball player. So then chuck can go back to lsm n help guard the midfield of princeton. Whatever they do or plan they better come out ready n hustle from start to finish. Isn’t a must win not with schedule we have but it’s a big game n not getting harvard win think need to win both these games vs ivies n help the acc. Also think really need maryland to win.

 

[CLTOrange]

fwiw, it was likely a result of 1 or 2 things or both.. far side ssdm has some sort of instructions about going over while ball is still deep with D-G-D low (don't know what those instructions are)
and
kuczynski @ close. if subbing a close d man has been the plan/m.o... shorties subbing on have been seeing #26 come off since the fall as an lsm... with no instructions about staying onside, and likely even to go deep and clear out. and the close d's sub is to stay onside initially. all so 1 of D-G-D can go over if need be, or create a 2 on 1 on one of the corners with a shorty (basically a 5v4 in back end vs say a 7v6 with people everywhere. more space, simpler). in just CK's 2nd game there, my guess is the mid didn't make the connection in the moment that he was close d. and not subbing off as the lsm he was used to.

have run a similar clear for years.

There’s a video floating around that was posted after the last IMCLA conference where Coach O details their base clear of anyone needs the visual.

 

[JeremyCuse]

There’s a video floating around that was posted after the last IMCLA conference where Coach O details their base clear of anyone needs the visual.

I think the team needs to watch it a few times again.

 

[LaxAddict38]

2-3-2 (2 man base, 3 across middle, 2 high) is a very popular clear in the modern game.

The benefit is it spaces the field well and gives short sticks tons of room to operate, especially compared to a traditional 3-4 (3 on base 4 middies across)

The drawback is that the mechanics can be confusing, and teams that run it can be prone to off-sides. This can be magnified in big moments, when players are more nervous than normal…

For example, Maryland, gods of discipline and execution (I say somewhat sarcastically), went off-sides 4-5 times in the national championship running the 2-3-2 clear that we are currently running.

Our middie jumped off-sides in the aforementioned clip near end of Harvard game. My bet is he got nervous and botched in the big moment, just as the MD players did.

I am hopeful that we will execute better as the season goes on, as the 2-3-2 appeared to help us in the clear against SJU and has been effective for the last year-ish.

 

[PhatOrange]

The clear really shouldn't be prone to offsides. If you're clearing opposite box and you've just run a pole off the shorty going on I assume would have onsides responsibility. If this was Hottle and he stepped over it's a major screwup.

 

[upst8]

I wonder if the team is tentative in certain clearing situations knowing the issues they've had with offsides. Rather than reading and reacting players are thinking, hesitating, and making mental errors. All it takes is one to take an extra second to go over/get back and the count is off. I can't think of another explanation at this point.

 

[LaxAddict38]

The clear really shouldn't be prone to offsides. If you're clearing opposite box and you've just run a pole off the shorty going on I assume would have onsides responsibility. If this was Hottle and he stepped over it's a major screwup.

2-3-2 sends two d-mids opposite in a stack and the LSM and Close D work off. Meaning two more o-mids come on the box side.

If shorties go over opposite then one needs to stay onside on the box side. If the pole in the middle goes over, both low shorties on both sides need to stay onside.

I'm not saying it's prone to offsides by definition but the reality is that it is a bit more wonky than the traditional 3-4 clear, and teams that run it tend to clear well but randomly go off-sides.

 

[wgdsr]

2-3-2 sends two d-mids opposite in a stack and the LSM and Close D work off. Meaning two more o-mids come on the box side.

If shorties go over opposite then one needs to stay onside on the box side. If the pole in the middle goes over, both low shorties on both sides need to stay onside.

I'm not saying it's prone to offsides by definition but the reality is that it is a bit more wonky than the traditional 3-4 clear, and teams that run it tend to clear well but randomly go off-sides.

it may, but they don't run a 2-3-2. or at least i haven't seen it much. and they weren't running it on that clear.

 

[LaxAddict38]

it may, but they don't run a 2-3-2. or at least i haven't seen it much. and they weren't running it on that clear.

They swung the 2nd pole down (not sure why). Looks like it was actually on Bowen as the ball was being cleared up the box side, so Hottle had to stretch over midline. Opposite side middie should have onsides responsibility.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Syracuse won pretty much every statistical category, but they absolutely need to shoot the ball better. They outshot Harvard by nine, but had the same amount of shots on goal (26). That's not a winning formula. I love Joey Spallina, but there is no need for him to lead the team in shooting by seven in a single game. He now has 19 more shots than his closest competitor on the team. That's just not sustainable, especially on a team with such good players.

I don't want to say it, but I might as well, I hope his quest for the top scoring mark doesn't overwhelm him this year. In all the interviews I've read it's clear there is a lot of pressure on him, not in terms of the scoring mark, but this teams performance. I hope that doesn't get too big for him. That shot at the end of the game made me worry it might be.

Only area I would disagree with you is here. Looking back at the replay, I do not really think Spallina was forcing his shots, just taking the opportunities the defense was giving him. Several were when he got the switch on the short stick. A few were late in the shot clock or time in the quarter. He was creating several looks as a passer, but we had a couple we should have finished. Two where Hahn should have buried it, one where Anderson should have buried it, one where Thomson did not handle the pass and probably should have, among others. I am not surprised we kept putting the ball in his stick as it was creating quality looks. Certainly wish he found the back of the cage on some of those more open shots though.

The only one I have a major issue with is unfortunately his final shot of the game, as you mentioned, where we needed the goal most. He already got the switch on the short stick and instead of pulling it out and dodging on that matchup with plenty of time, he forces a low angle shot right away. Certainly not impossible for him to score from there, but a lot more could have happened with a more drawn out dodge on the short stick matchup he just acquired. That was really the only 100% ill advised play from him I could find. He probably saw the sliver of goal and got too excited, but as a senior he should be more aware of the situation there.

I really do not think that him having that many more shots than others is a reflection of anything to do with him chasing records. A part of it is not having a locked down left wing attack spot, with both of the candidates there having played middie virtually their entire careers here (Anderson played 2 or 3 at attack last year and Leo a couple in 2024). Hiltz took our most shots by almost 20 last year. Left wing has been partially Anderson and partially Leo to start the year. With Leo now more locked into that spot, I think we see him close that gap as time goes on. Leo actually outshot spallina by one shot last year, which I did not realize until today.

With Spallina being the only guy on attack who has played his same role since day one, it is less surprising to see him outshooting others by that much early. In every game so far this year Spallina has created several looks against his matchup. If he is doing that, there is nothing wrong with going back to the well. He has never been a ball hog in his time here, and I think the new roles for others in the O, as well as the opportunities he is getting, are the main factors in the increased shots.

 

[SUbear]

He was 50% yesterday. If that's him at his worst, then there shouldn't be a peep about his play from anyone on this site. It's embarrassing watching you all spin out and spout nonsense.

If you think he played well in that game there is nothing more to say, I think he was mediocre at best.

 

[wgdsr]

They swung the 2nd pole down (not sure why). Looks like it was actually on Bowen as the ball was being cleared up the box side, so Hottle had to stretch over midline. Opposite side middie should have onsides responsibility.

ok, took about 5-10 min to scroll the first 1 1/2 q's each of umd and harvard to confirm the setup (and more). they run a 3-2-2 (counting from back) you (and i) are correct that they levering either side of the field, just with middle open, & 2 d flanking the goalie.

in that sample size, dwan always stayed on, either fig or ck came off (mostly ck), along with lsm.
- ssdms go opposite box
- subs stay box side
those 4 shorties are starting: 1 on d side corner, with the other partner probably 8+ yds deep, pinched, on offensive end.

the rules for once a d man wide is hoofing it up... both mids that side are free to go over. that means:
- opposite shorty on def corner must be back as the ball is sent to that pole opposite of him.
- if the pole is looking to chug over, the pinched opposite mid has to be back on d end before he crosses.
- if goalie is bringing it up, eyes up -- the corner look he is favoring (left or right) can go over to offense (rule is likely if he's both looking in your direction AND you would be open). if he crosses over himself, only 1 of the corners can then go to help as an outlet.

couple things --
- i'll walk back what i said about misidentifying CK as an lsm, that likely did not happen based on the above (i should've looked at more than 1 semi-blind clear).
- on the offending play, mccool had to face dodge an attackman, then as moving up field a few steps flipped it to BD on box side.
- what happened next -- kittleberger stepped over. he should not have. he never was in mccool's sights. even if he was open, he needed to be back before BD had the ball and started moving upfield.
- bowen? would've been back per his instructions it looks like by the time if BD crossed also.
- hottle has authority to go anywhere once BD has ball on his side of the field and is moving up.

there needs to be non-verbal communication between hottle and kittleberger for anything in-between the extremes at all times, but they also have to be able to watch the play/defense as well.

verdict: kittleberger was over when he shouldn't have been.

this clear CAN get a little complicated because they want to have all 3 ball-side guys avail without worrying about midline. you're effectively putting your 3 guys back (+ goalie) on the opposite side of the field so you have more options nearer the ball. i have never installed the 2nd mid come back thing bc didn't think it would be consistent.

but this was a simple miscue that kittleberger should know/react better if this has been their most practiced clear.

peeps on here, you can get (probably a much better) feel for the above by clicking thru the first several clears in the harvard game.

 

[LaxAddict38]

ok, took about 5-10 min to scroll the first 1 1/2 q's each of umd and harvard to confirm the setup (and more). they run a 3-2-2 (counting from back) you (and i) are correct that they levering either side of the field, just with middle open, & 2 d flanking the goalie.

in that sample size, dwan always stayed on, either fig or ck came off (mostly ck), along with lsm.
- ssdms go opposite box
- subs stay box side
those 4 shorties are starting: 1 on d side corner, with the other partner probably 8+ yds deep, pinched, on offensive end.

the rules for once a d man wide is hoofing it up... both mids that side are free to go over. that means:
- opposite shorty on def corner must be back as the ball is sent to that pole opposite of him.
- if the pole is looking to chug over, the pinched opposite mid has to be back on d end before he crosses.
- if goalie is bringing it up, eyes up -- the corner look he is favoring (left or right) can go over to offense (rule is likely if he's both looking in your direction AND you would be open). if he crosses over himself, only 1 of the corners can then go to help as an outlet.

couple things --
- i'll walk back what i said about misidentifying CK as an lsm, that likely did not happen based on the above (i should've looked at more than 1 semi-blind clear).
- on the offending play, mccool had to face dodge an attackman, then as moving up field a few steps flipped it to BD on box side.
- what happened next -- kittleberger stepped over. he should not have. he never was in mccool's sights. even if he was open, he needed to be back before BD had the ball and started moving upfield.
- bowen? would've been back per his instructions it looks like by the time if BD crossed also.
- hottle has authority to go anywhere once BD has ball on his side of the field and is moving up.

there needs to be non-verbal communication between hottle and kittleberger for anything in-between the extremes at all times, but they also have to be able to watch the play/defense as well.

verdict: kittleberger was over when he shouldn't have been.

this clear CAN get a little complicated because they want to have all 3 ball-side guys avail without worrying about midline. you're effectively putting your 3 guys back (+ goalie) on the opposite side of the field so you have more options nearer the ball. i have never installed the 2nd mid come back thing bc didn't think it would be consistent.

but this was a simple miscue that kittleberger should know/react better if this has been their most practiced clear.

peeps on here, you can get (probably a much better) feel for the above by clicking thru the first several clears in the harvard game.

Great analysis. Clears can sometimes shift and morph based on the ride of the opposing team. Perhaps they had gotten used to pressure rides and struggled with Harvard's more dropped back approach (with their midfielders).

Agreed that non-verbal communication from middies on opposite sides needs to be better, can't have 7 over. You can see Odierna screaming at Hottle to stay onside, but he steps over.

It's February, we aren't the only team failing clears. I'm not concerned... yet.