Has Boeheim entered the Frank Beamer/Mack Brown zone?

[Czar]

Saw this idea posted elsewhere and I have to say I think I agree. Particularly comparing him to Mack Brown. Very similar arcs going towards the end of their careers.

 

[Ghost]

No. JB is great, I would be far more concerned if this recruiting class sucked. I love Mali, Lydon, and FH. It seems like we're finally rectifying the problems. I think we just had a dreadful stretch for a variety of reasons that I will not get into.

I would still like to mix in some M2M at times, but I can live with it. The defense is always good enough - we just needed to stop recruiting dudes who are one-dimensional, and then not being able to even teach them how to play zone which just exacerbated the problems.

You can't recruit offensive duds, if you can't teach them the defense for 3 years.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Or Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno? I like the Mack Brown comparison as well as the biggest criticism of Mack is that he was running the program too much like a CEO not enough like a college coach.

The problem our offense isn't that we recruit offensive duds... the problem is our offense relies on having a lottery pick at the guard and wings to be remotely successful ... the second problem with our offense is our defense... we just don't get enough possessions so we have to be perfect on the ones that we get which just exacerbates the first problem in that we need lottery pick level talent.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... this program needs a breath of fresh air and some new thinking. I respect JB and thank him for all that he is done but the time to either make a complete overhaul of how he coaches everything but the zone or just hang it up is getting close. Next year is a must-win (whatever that means) for JB because if it doesn't happen with the talent he has coming in then I'm not sure when it will happen again.

We can no longer skate by with a sh!tty offense while relying on our zone to bail us out of games.

 

[NKR1978]

I don't think he goes out like this. Hopefully he plays for the future. Would love to see Howard, Mal, Lydon, Roberson and DC get run together for 5 minutes a half in the NIT.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Becoming a little like Gary Wiliams in how he wont recruit nationally routinely , travel a lot for said recruits, go after kids that will drag things out even though their supremely talented. Dont get me wrong, this 16 class is good but as we all know there have been a lot of misses lately. Just feel hes very apathetic and cynical towards th recruiting scene now. And honestly after 40 years, can u blame em?

 

[OrlandoCuse]

We were two players away this year. It also doesn't help that Cooney and Roberson haven't improved in their time on the hill, and Joseph and Chino have proven they can't play at this level. So basically half of our team was a bust/didn't grow to expectations.

If your players aren't improving from year to year it's very unlikely that the team will improve or stay at an elite level.

Hopefully Mal, Lydon, Battle and Moyer along with an improving Howard step up their games next year.

 

[tbonezone]

 

[orangehomer]

i don't know about this, it's one of the better passing teams we've had and good defensively. we had three rotation players out of 7 that were true frosh, and only one of them was expected heavily this year. we are what we are, a program under sanctions with 9 scholarship players. KJ was a complete whiff and could have completely changed the season, but i don't know if that is the staffs fault or if the kid is a headcase.

 

[Brooky03]

2 rough seasons with a very promising future ahead. Yup, looks like he's washed up. He shoulda quit after those back-to-back NIT seasons in '07 and '08. I don't remember the subsequent teams doing anything good. Dude's washed up for sure.

 

[skurey]

2 rough seasons with a very promising future ahead. Yup, looks like he's washed up. He shoulda quit after those back-to-back NIT seasons in '07 and '08. I don't remember the subsequent teams doing anything good. Dude's washed up for sure.

Failed to make the tournament 4 out of 10 years. That is so beyond unacceptable for a program of our stature.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Becoming a little like Gary Wiliams in how he wont recruit nationally routinely , travel a lot for said recruits, go after kids that will drag things out even though their supremely talented. Dont get me wrong, this 16 class is good but as we all know there have been a lot of misses lately. Just feel hes very apathetic and cynical towards th recruiting scene now. And honestly after 40 years, can u blame em?

I think this is completely wrong. He is out there more than many young coaches. This is something that has been discussed and recruits at times have said that I will see Boeheim at my game and then assistants for the other schools.

 

[br801]

Some amazing stuff in this thread. JB still has a burning passion for the game, it appears he will have the pieces necessary for a deep run next season, and he has the finish line in sight. Sit back and enjoy.

 

[Brooky03]

Failed to make the tournament 4 out of 10 years. That is so beyond unacceptable for a program of our stature.

Oh word? Well lets go get one of those elite coaches who wants to come to central New York and make far less money than his peers. Problem solved.

 

[br801]

Failed to make the tournament 4 out of 10 years. That is so beyond unacceptable for a program of our stature.

You mean the program he was responsible for constructing?

 

[Brooky03]

You mean the program he was responsible for constructing?

Yeah but what has he done for us lately? couchburn

 

[skurey]

Oh word? Well lets go get one of those elite coaches who wants to come to central New York and make far less money than his peers. Problem solved.

Or we can pay a good coach good money.

You mean the program he was responsible for constructing?

Yes. He's had a very successful run. But not even making the tournament 4 out of 10 years is pathetic.

 

[iommi]

I don't think he goes out like this. Hopefully he plays for the future. Would love to see Howard, Mal, Lydon, Roberson and DC get run together for 5 minutes a half in the NIT.

Ain't gonna happen, but I do like this idea. Plus, it would mean putting MR at the top of the zone, where he will be next year. Good dress rehearsal for that. JB always thinks about winning the game he's coaching, so he will likely continue this year's rotation and lineups. He did give Hak more minutes in the NIT his frosh year, so there is that.

 

[Delmar]

No.

 

[br801]

Or we can pay a good coach good money.



Yes. He's had a very successful run. But not even making the tournament 4 out of 10 years is pathetic.

Sadly, I feel a "Coyle needs to buy out Hop and open up a coaching search" thread coming on.

 

[FrancoPizza]

not even making the tournament 4 out of 10 years is pathetic.

more importantly that means we have a 40% chance of feeling absolutely depressed in March in any given year.

 

[Shark58]

We were two players away this year. .

those 2 players were Diange and KJ being who we hoped he would be

 

[We Are Syracuse]

A lot of people here will deny this but JB has concerned me after this year. 4 years out of 10 not making the tourney. Making no adjustments year to year based on personnel that his team has. Just troubling IMO

 

[FrancoPizza]

A lot of people here will deny this but JB has concerned me after this year. 4 years out of 10 not making the tourney. Making no adjustments year to year based on personnel that his team has. Just troubling IMO

I think there's only a few people here in denial. The rest are in depression stage. And acceptance is just not an option.

 

[Orangeman]

i don't know about this, it's one of the better passing teams we've had and good defensively. we had three rotation players out of 7 that were true frosh, and only one of them was expected heavily this year. we are what we are, a program under sanctions with 9 scholarship players. KJ was a complete whiff and could have completely changed the season, but i don't know if that is the staffs fault or if the kid is a headcase.

What?!?!

It's the worst passing team I've ever seen, they don't even look up or ahead in unsettled situations

Oh man

 

[Zelda Zonk]

No. JB is great, I would be far more concerned if this recruiting class sucked. I love Mali, Lydon, and FH. It seems like we're finally rectifying the problems. I think we just had a dreadful stretch for a variety of reasons that I will not get into.

I would still like to mix in some M2M at times, but I can live with it. The defense is always good enough - we just needed to stop recruiting dudes who are one-dimensional, and then not being able to even teach them how to play zone which just exacerbated the problems.

You can't recruit offensive duds, if you can't teach them the defense for 3 years.

I don't know what any of this means.

JB is not "great," unless you consider a large number of coaches to be "great."
I'd love to hear the reasons for the dreadful stretch.
You would like to mix in some M2M? Based on what, exactly, as a demonstration that this staff is capable of coaching it? The last few times we tried, weren't we torched by D2 schools? Are you suggesting that this team, horrible in zone, would have been better in man, in spurts, even though we have stopped practicing man?

This one, though, wobbles the mind:
"The defense is always good enough - we just needed to stop recruiting dudes who are one-dimensional, and then not being able to even teach them how to play zone which just exacerbated the problems."

So, the defense ISN'T good enough, because we HAVE been recruiting one-dimensional dudes? And, the coach is "great," but he can't even teach them how to play zone? I'm so confused... Seems like half of the post was written in sarcasm, and the other half as a JB apologist. So, the defense IS good enough, when we can recruit the best player in all of the NCAA one year out of 40?

"You can't recruit offensive duds, if you can't teach them defense for 3 years." I think you're saying that if the coaches are certain, before a kid gets to campus, that the kid won't 'master' the zone within three years, they should not recruit him unless he's certain to be a volume scorer. Or something like that. Did i get it? So, if the coach is great, then is it the kid's fault for not being able to learn the defense in 3 years? Does it take longer than that? If so, the coach probably isn't so great if he expects it takes 3 years to learn a defense. During which time, the best players will have declared, and then we're stuck with the not so best players struggling until they become seniors. Or, something like that. This makes it sound like the Triangle... It's the perfect defense, if you have the perfect set of players for it, after the requisite amount of time it takes to learn it. But, the zone isn't that complicated. It's just made to look like that when JB screams at his dog house kids when a shot is made against it, even though that kid was covering a space when the ball USED to be there... But, the ball is faster than the kid. Soooooo, JB has installed a defense that obligates him to scream at/yank a kid every other possession.