Has Boeheim entered the Frank Beamer/Mack Brown zone? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Has Boeheim entered the Frank Beamer/Mack Brown zone?

I am not trying to speak for him, but Francis03 has stated many times that JB won't go after the kids who are not local and doesn't get into the long recruitment battles that don't end until the Spring. He wants it wrapped up by November and the top players don't sign then. Take the kid from NJ who transferred to TX as an example. Top 5 kid from our geography, and we are out, because we didn't want to play around there. Porter as well. Top 10 2017 kid, who had interest, but we are not pursuing. Also, not denying this team had a ton of flaws, I agree Mali is a 2 guard not a SF, and G is a Sf not a pg. Not sure how that condemns the notion we play a very predictable brand of basketball? No question we had issues with the roster this year that were probably too much to overcome whether we made the tourney or not, but I don't think Syracuse should ever be a middle of the pack ACC team. Hopefully next year we won't be. I wouldn't mind bringing in a 5th year guard to help out though.
Regarding Porter. We are recruiting the kid. We made is top 10 but his godfather is Lorenzo Romar so he is either going to Kentucky/Kansas/Duke or to University of Washington. It's not that Boeheim is not going after these kids but we have to have other plans. When we lose out to the kid because he goes to Tobacco Road or KU or UK we then are left with nothing. The basis of recruiting almost anywhere is to recruit your area really well and then branch out to other areas. This is what everyone outside of Kentucky, Kansas, Duke and NC do. This is what we do. Recruit New York and surrounding areas as best we can and do our best in other areas that we have had success (Philadelphia, D.C. etc).
 
It's funny how it was unacceptable to hire a football coach with no HC experience at all, but let's entrust our all time top ten basketball program to Mike Hopkins.

"Funny" 'peculiar,' or "funny" 'ha-ha?'

That's the thing about 'us.' Anything tinged with 'orange' automatically gets bonus points in the assessment game. We have a staff of former orange, and the board seems to 'trust' that that staff is competent (or beyond), with no actual reason to believe such. Never mind the fact that they've not really experienced anything other than what JB has shown them, which, to me, is a colossal disadvantage. Even if you think JB is god, Shirley you can't believe that exposure to other systems of thought (even DRILLS for chrissake) would be beneficial. But, no... We are great because we are great. Which, actually, is some sort of narcissism, in that our program 'represents' us, so of course it cannot be flawed. How dare anyone suggest that 'the right/best way' can/should be found elsewhere.

That all said, i like Hopkins. As a dude. But, that's also how i used to feel about JB. I liked him, as a dude. Just never liked his coaching. We'll see with Hopkins. He comes across as knowledgable and enthusiastic. Two great components. But, those nine games scared me. There's more to coaching than attributes you can put on paper. Forget about him not having 'his team,' because what's he really going to do differently, recruiting-wise? It was a matter of not having game command. I can 'get' that it can take time to get up to game speed with your thought processes, and a lot of those types of reactions are exactly that, rote reactions, which will develop. Maybe what we need to be concerned with is that Hopkins will feel compelled to maintain 'the system,' because it was 'successful' for his predecessor, or will play it safe in keeping it because defining a new system might take a decade... But, systems are probably tied to the personalities of the people who run them, so if there's a mismatch, well, shoot.
 
I think this is completely wrong. He is out there more than many young coaches. This is something that has been discussed and recruits at times have said that I will see Boeheim at my game and then assistants for the other schools.
:rolling::rolling::rolling:

That must have been said in the 80's and 90's. The only thing that JB hates more than Jim Calhoun at this point is recruiting. Over the last 2-3 years, he has not attended a single HS game that didn't include his sons. Sure he'll attend an AAU event here and there or check out a player at their school if the flight is within a couple of hours. Ask anybody that follows recruiting over the past few years and they'll tell you how other schools when checking out a top prospect will have their HC's rolled out, while SU is mainly represented by the assistant. Our recruiting at this stage is pretty much all on the assistants. It's basically them doing their best to get the player to visit and hoping that JB can put the final touches on closing. Matt Moyer is a clear example of this. JB was able to land him without ever having to step foot in Ohio, because GMac was able to get him on campus. At his age and 40 years in the game, I can understand JB losing the lust to recruit, but let's not act like he's out there grinding hard on the circuit.
 
exploding-head.jpg
 
:rolling::rolling::rolling:

That must have been said in the 80's and 90's. The only thing that JB hates more than Jim Calhoun at this point is recruiting. Over the last 2-3 years, he has not attended a single HS game that didn't include his sons. Sure he'll attend an AAU event here and there or check out a player at their school if the flight is within a couple of hours. Ask anybody that follows recruiting over the past few years and they'll tell you how other schools when checking out a top prospect will have their HC's rolled out, while SU is mainly represented by the assistant. Our recruiting at this stage is pretty much all on the assistants. It's basically them doing their best to get the player to visit and hoping that JB can put the final touches on closing. Matt Moyer is a clear example of this. JB was able to land him without ever having to step foot in Ohio, because GMac was able to get him on campus. At his age and 40 years in the game, I can understand JB losing the lust to recruit, but let's not act like he's out there grinding hard on the circuit.

Ughhh...this sounds EXACTLY like the last years of Gary Williams.
 
How many programs since 2007 have been to a Final Four, Elite 8 and two additional Sweet 16's?
Off the top of my head: Duke, UNC, Lousiville, UK, KU, Arizona*, OSU, UConn*, Florida ...

* Alright I looked some up and ASU hadn't done quite as well in the tourney as I had thought. UConn has been hit or miss, but three NCs in 13 seasons eases a whole lot of that pain. Also Wisconsin. Baylor has been respectable, but misses out.

Looking back, Syracuse got a big run when they had AO, RJ, Scoop, Triche and CJ. That was a real solid set of recruits who were augmented by a couple of 1-2 year NBA talents like Wes, Dion, and MCW.
 
And last year Ennis and Grant, had they had been there, which Jb expected them to be we are looking at a completely different team, of course it wouldn't have mattered with the sanctions.

Who did we get to replace them with? Bottom line we should be in this position. Maybe it’s time for a change. No more excuses we are Syracuse!!
 
Off the top of my head: Duke, UNC, Lousiville, UK, KU, Arizona*, OSU, UConn*, Florida ...

* Alright I looked some up and ASU hadn't done quite as well in the tourney as I had though. UConn, has been hit or miss, but three NCs in 13 seasons eases a whole lot of that pain. Also Wisconsin. Baylor has been respectable, but misses out.

Butler, 2 NC Runnerup and a S16. Michigan State. Xavier doesn't have a FF, but more S16 and E8s
 
Who did we get to replace them with? Bottom line we should be in this position. Maybe it’s time for a change. No more excuses we are Syracuse!!

We had Ennis leave after a year, and a top 50 PG recruit look like a total bust. Not sure anyone saw that coming.
 
Butler, 2 NC Runnerup and a S16. Michigan State. Xavier doesn't have a FF, but more S16 and E8s
Forgot to add MSU. I knew that. Xavier is a good one. Butler was a one-off thing thanks to Brad Stevens and two and half NBA players.
 
Probably somewhere around 10-15

Got teams like Butler, VCU & Wichita State with a similar resume in that time frame.
 
Xavier has no final fours, one elite eight, and four additional sweet 16s since 2007.
 
We had Ennis leave after a year, and a top 50 PG recruit look like a total bust. Not sure anyone saw that coming.
Meh, when you recruit top-40 talent (basically the best HS player from each state), you have to expect that these guys aren't planning on staying four years. That's on the staff to prepare. Lots of people saw preternatural talent in Ennis, including SU. He was given the keys to the offense from day 1, with no other options considered, because they saw a finished PG from the start. Grant had an NBA pedigree and everyone could see he had NBA athleticism. It was just a matter of time til his skill caught up with his body enough to go pro.

Joseph ... everybody misses occasionally, but the staff either missed or jumped the gun on clearing scholarships by transferring BJ and Buss, too. That's basically four scholarships (including Chinoso) where they're not getting any production. That's tough. That's on the staff, too.
 
They each have 7 tourney wins and a final four in the last 5 years and they are Virginia Commonwealth and Wichita frickin State.
 
Meh, when you recruit top-40 talent (basically the best HS player from each state), you have to expect that these guys aren't planning on staying four years. That's on the staff to prepare. Lots of people saw preternatural talent in Ennis, including SU. He was given the keys to the offense from day 1, with no other options considered, because they saw a finished PG from the start. Grant had an NBA pedigree and everyone could see he had NBA athleticism. It was just a matter of time til his skill caught up with his body enough to go pro.

Joseph ... everybody misses occasionally, but the staff either missed or jumped the gun on clearing scholarships by transferring BJ and Buss, too. That's basically four scholarships (including Chinoso) where they're not getting any production. That's tough. That's on the staff, too.

While I don't think anyone expected Ennis to stay four years, no one expected him to be OAD either until deep in the season, and by then it's too late (because we don't bring in fifth year transfers for reasons unknown to everyone but Boeheim)

I do think we reached too much on the class of 2013 (ie Patterson BJ and Chino) and that's on the staff. Hell I thought for sure we were getting Rysheed Jordan, and then next thing you know Patterson commits. What happened there?
 
They each have 7 tourney wins and a final four in the last 5 years and they are Virginia Commonwealth and Wichita frickin State.

The sample being discussed is 2007-now, not 2011 to now. And they still dont' have a similar resume to us. ESPECIALLY VCU who has done nothing since 2011.
 
The sample being discussed is 2007-now, not 2011 to now. And they still dont' have a similar resume to us. ESPECIALLY VCU who has done nothing since 2011.

I must've missed those 2007 & 2008 tournaments for those to matter in such a sample, along with last year and this year. You're probably right, their resume isn't similar since they seem to be in the tourney every year.
 
They each have 7 tourney wins and a final four in the last 5 years and they are Virginia Commonwealth and Wichita frickin State.

The sample being discussed is 2007-now, not 2011 to now. And they still dont' have a similar resume to us. ESPECIALLY VCU who has done nothing since 2011.

Yeah, I'm bored at work and went through the last 9 tournaments (2007-15)
Teams clearly above us:
Florida, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Connecticut, Michigan State, North Carolina.

Teams in our neighborhood:
Wisconsin (3 S16, 1 FF, 1 Runner Up)
UCLA (2 FF; 2 S16)
Ohio State (1 S16; 1 E8; 1 FF; 1 RU)
Butler (2 RU; 1 S16)

I was responding to a post saying that we've been out of the tournament 4 times in the last 10 years and that was "mid major level." We're in pretty good company with respect to our tournament success over the last 9-10 tournaments with a definite top 13 tournament resume since 2007.
 
Yeah, I'm bored at work and went through the last 9 tournaments (2007-15)
Teams clearly above us:
Florida, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Connecticut, Michigan State, North Carolina.

Teams in our neighborhood:
Wisconsin (3 S16, 1 FF, 1 Runner Up)
UCLA (2 FF; 2 S16)
Ohio State (1 S16; 1 E8; 1 FF; 1 RU)
Butler (2 RU; 1 S16)

I was responding to a post saying that we've been out of the tournament 4 times in the last 10 years and that was "mid major level."
We're in pretty good company with respect to our tournament success over the last 9-10 tournaments with a definite top 13 tournament resume since 2007.

You, with your facts and statistics. Those are not welcome here! :p

We now return you to your Hot Taeks, hyperbole and irrationality, already in progress. :D
 
I must've missed those 2007 & 2008 tournaments for those to matter in such a sample, along with last year and this year. You're probably right, their resume isn't similar since they seem to be in the tourney every year.

No, but you also excluded 2009 and 2010. Would you like to look up how VCU and Wichita State did, or do you want me to tell you?
 
it, I'll just put it out there.

Since 2007:

Syracuse: 2 sweet 16, one elite 8, one final four.

Virginia Commonwealth: one final four

Wichita State: One sweet 16, one final four

SIMILAR RESUMES IMO.
 
We were two players away this year. It also doesn't help that Cooney and Roberson haven't improved in their time on the hill, and Joseph and Chino have proven they can't play at this level. So basically half of our team was a bust/didn't grow to expectations.

If your players aren't improving from year to year it's very unlikely that the team will improve or stay at an elite level.

Hopefully Mal, Lydon, Battle and Moyer along with an improving Howard step up their games next year.
"Two players away". that could apply to the 300-something D1 programs who don't win the last game
 

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