Have you ever been fired?

[Crusty]

Crusty - he wasn't fired. He is still employed at the same place, at the same rate. Re-assigned/demoted maybe but not fired.

Splitting hairs. If he was "fired" they would still have to pay him under his contract. I guarantee you that in the industry he will forever face the notion that he was fired as OC. Nobody will be using the term demoted two years from now. He will never get a D-1 OC job again.

 

[SUbear]

Really? Then Shafer is a fool.

I do not think his title was taken or any monetary penalty was imposed, if they were then certainly it should have been in person, but barring that, can not see why a face to face would be considered important. Especially if it was not intended to be made public, remember McD was the guy that talked.

Whether Shafer is a fool or not I will not speculate, although I felt he was foolish not to hire an experienced OC rather than this guy.

 

[SUbear]

Splitting hairs. If he was "fired" they would still have to pay him under his contract. I guarantee you that in the industry he will forever face the notion that he was fired as OC. Nobody will be using the term demoted two years from now. He will never get a D-1 OC job again.

Maybe fired now for shooting his mouth off, and he may actually lose his contractual payments because now that firing will be for cause, most contracts have riders that say you do not receive payments if you violate confidentiality.

 

[SWC75]

You do not know this is factual or that he actually fired/demoted him. I think Shafer regarded it as a change of coaching assignments.

I doubt MacDonald saw it that way.

 

[SWC75]

I do not think his title was taken or any monetary penalty was imposed, if they were then certainly it should have been in person, but barring that, can not see why a face to face would be considered important. Especially if it was not intended to be made public, remember McD was the guy that talked.

Whether Shafer is a fool or not I will not speculate, although I felt he was foolish not to hire an experienced OC rather than this guy.

We've learned from the Pasqualoni firing and Marrone leaving that the toughest time to change coaching staffs is after a bowl game. The pickings are usually pretty slim by then. You are going to get people who have never done this job before or who were fired for a reason.

Shafer went to guys he knew. You can't blame him for that.

 

[SUbear]

We've learned from the Pasqualoni firing and Marrone leaving that the toughest time to change coaching staffs is after a bowl game. The pickings are usually pretty slim by then. You are going to get people who have never done this job before or who were fired for a reason.

Shafer went to guys he knew. You can't blame him for that.

Never said I was laying blame just felt it was a foolish hire for him to make as an OC given he is not really knowledgeable on the offensive side of the ball, he needed a really good OC and McD did not make that standard. It is too early to tell but may end up costing him the SU head position unless he can right the ship ASAP.
I do generally feel it is usually a mistake to bring in your friends to fill professional positions under you. Makes it harder to maintain the professional separation necessary between superiors and subordinates.

 

[SUbear]

I doubt MacDonald saw it that way.

Really does not matter how McD saw it because Shafer was the one making the call and the changes. McD just needed to follow orders and keep his mouth shut.

 

[Timonen]

I can understand why GMac was upset. He was "an up and comer, the rising star". He was shown the door after 20 months of very subpar results. You can quantify his results, they haven't been good. I can see why he is upset. I would be as well.

he's too old to be the rising star. i think there are NFL coaches his age. of course he can be upset, but he's in a business where he's been around hiring and firing for 15+ years. It shouldn't be a shock and even if it was, he should have the maturity and self awareness to know how to best handle himself to promote his employers AND HIS OWN best interests!

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I was fired from a job at SU earlier this year. Because of their firing policy, my organization had to give me 1 month "probation" before they could let me go.

Now, I'd been on the job for a month and a half before they put me on probation. I had no idea what I was doing, no idea what they wanted, and little accommodation to figure either of those things out.

The writing was on the wall from the word go, but I had to sit there and take it because I foolishly kept convincing myself I could turn things around. At least I got severance. But it was hell on earth trying to get through it.

 

[Mr Peabody]

Splitting hairs. If he was "fired" they would still have to pay him under his contract. I guarantee you that in the industry he will forever face the notion that he was fired as OC. Nobody will be using the term demoted two years from now. He will never get a D-1 OC job again.

I really hope this is not the case . He came here with little to no OC experience, first gig is a P5 OC, and he no doubt has learned some tough and painful lessons. Would be a shame to put that to waste and give up on a career he seems to have passion for.

When the emotion blows over you reflect on what went right and what didn't, learn from that, seek counsel of people who have succeeded and start anew. I can't imagine that with the right situation and mentoring he doesn't get his career back on track. Coaching fraternity seems pretty tight and supportive of each other

 

[retro44]

I am getting real good at it.....call me a high 4 star or 5 star recruit.

but please...just let this go away as it does the program no good starting thread after thread about the same thing

 

[Orangepace]

I was like 22 and was hired by a catalog store for security during Christmas season. It was the most boring day of my life. At the end of my one and only shift they informed I wouldn't be needed anymore. Not sure if I kissed them when they told me.

So you're the one who took down MCW!?! Brought such negative publicity to Lord and Taylors!

 

[Orangepace]

Splitting hairs. If he was "fired" they would still have to pay him under his contract. I guarantee you that in the industry he will forever face the notion that he was fired as OC. Nobody will be using the term demoted two years from now. He will never get a D-1 OC job again.

He will find a job next year and he will OC again. The guy is 37 and hot to trot. Wouldn't expect him to get an OC gig in the next 4 years, at least, though. It will blow over for him, but the guy has a lot of connections and his recruiting abilities will carry him to another day. He really needs to be sent to a few Professional Development courses the next few years. Hopefully his next boss will make it a condition of his employment.

Maybe fired now for shooting his mouth off, and he may actually lose his contractual payments because now that firing will be for cause, most contracts have riders that say you do not receive payments if you violate confidentiality.

Doubt he'd lose payments if fired because Shafer and the University went public before McDonald (he may have leaked, but it was annonymous). He merely responded to comments after they went public. I'm no lawyer, but I have to believe he would have a better than 50/50 chance of winning this fight.

 

[SUbear]

He will find a job next year and he will OC again. The guy is 37 and hot to trot. Wouldn't expect him to get an OC gig in the next 4 years, at least, though. It will blow over for him, but the guy has a lot of connections and his recruiting abilities will carry him to another day. He really needs to be sent to a few Professional Development courses the next few years. Hopefully his next boss will make it a condition of his employment.


Doubt he'd lose payments if fired because Shafer and the University went public before McDonald (he may have leaked, but it was annonymous). He merely responded to comments after they went public. I'm no lawyer, but I have to believe he would have a better than 50/50 chance of winning this fight.

I believe asst contracts are year to year anyway so would not be that big a deal either way. Having said that this guy through his mouth has I believe violated confidentiality and brought disrespect to his employer, it may or not be cause to withhold payments. Litigation would almost assuredly occur so SU might just decide better just to pay.

 

[cto]

Since my name has been mentioned here a few times...

I, sadly, have had to terminate the employment of several people. But these terminations take two forms.

1) If a person is being terminated for cause (e.g., lying on expense account or otherwise violating company policy), it is easy. You go to his office with someone from HR and security (always do it in his office, not yours), tell him why he is being terminated, tell him he has X minutes to clean out his office .. and have security escort him off the premises. (Obviously, you have cut off his email account prior to visiting him).

2) If it is an employee who just isn't hacking it anymore, it is more difficult. HR knows you are going to his office, but you do it alone. You have a nice chat. You thank him for all his contributions, but explain why it is time for the company to move on. You pick a date in the future for his last day, you give him an overview of the benefits he will receive and you let him vent and try to answer his questions. You let him know who will be his go-to person in HR. Then you usually wind up either hugging each other or shaking hands. My experience is .... It is never really a surprise to the employee in question. He has gotten enough signals to know he is not "hacking it." Oddly enough, some of the people I had to let go in this way... have remained close friends.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Since my name has been mentioned here a few times...

I, sadly, have had to terminate the employment of several people. But these terminations take two forms.

1) If a person is being terminated for cause (e.g., lying on expense account or otherwise violating company policy), it is easy. You go to his office with someone from HR and security (always do it in his office, not yours), tell him why he is being terminated, tell him he has X minutes to clean out his office .. and have security escort him off the premises. (Obviously, you have cut off his email account prior to visiting him).

2) If it is an employee who just isn't hacking it anymore, it is more difficult. HR knows you are going to his office, but you do it alone. You have a nice chat. You thank him for all his contributions, but explain why it is time for the company to move on. You pick a date in the future for his last day, you give him an overview of the benefits he will receive and you let him vent and try to answer his questions. You let him know who will be his go-to person in HR. Then you usually wind up either hugging each other or shaking hands. My experience is ... It is never really a surprise to the employee in question. He has gotten enough signals to know he is not "hacking it." Oddly enough, some of the people I had to let go in this way... have remained close friends.

Thanks for chiming in CTO

 

[HeaterCuse22]

I believe asst contracts are year to year anyway so would not be that big a deal either way. Having said that this guy through his mouth has I believe violated confidentiality and brought disrespect to his employer, it may or not be cause to withhold payments. Litigation would almost assuredly occur so SU might just decide better just to pay.

Overheard Axe say it was a two year deal but could be wrong.

 

[Crusty]

I believe asst contracts are year to year anyway so would not be that big a deal either way. Having said that this guy through his mouth has I believe violated confidentiality and brought disrespect to his employer, it may or not be cause to withhold payments. Litigation would almost assuredly occur so SU might just decide better just to pay.

Nonsense. Truth is a perfect defense. I guarantee you there is no confidentiality clause with respect to those sort of things. He has 1st Amendment rights as well. They would have to pay him.

 

[Crusty]

I really hope this is not the case . He came here with little to no OC experience, first gig is a P5 OC, and he no doubt has learned some tough and painful lessons. Would be a shame to put that to waste and give up on a career he seems to have passion for.

When the emotion blows over you reflect on what went right and what didn't, learn from that, seek counsel of people who have succeeded and start anew. I can't imagine that with the right situation and mentoring he doesn't get his career back on track. Coaching fraternity seems pretty tight and supportive of each other

There are a lot of coaches that will feel as if he did not have a decent shot. The team made a bowl and was 7-6 in his first season and was only five games in with loses to #6 team and a #5 defense. That probably includes Saint Doug. Problem is the competition in this industry if fierce. I wish him the best.

 

[OttoMets]

Nonsense. Truth is a perfect defense. I guarantee you there is no confidentiality clause with respect to those sort of things. He has 1st Amendment rights as well. They would have to pay him.

First Amendment rights aren't a defense to violation of an NDA.

But, yeah, even in this austerity period, SU would definitely pay him through the year. Not worth litigation expense.

 

[Crusty]

First Amendment rights aren't a defense to violation of an NDA.

But, yeah, even in this austerity period, SU would definitely pay him through the year. Not worth litigation expense.

CA's are not inviolate. Besides, what would SU's damages be? Nothing quantifiable or provable and LD clauses aren't worth the paper on whihc they they are written. The court would have to weigh his rights versus SU's with respect to what he said. There was nothing he said that would fall under a CA. He would get paid.

 

[SUbear]

Overheard Axe say it was a two year deal but could be wrong.

If so he would be into that second year.

 

[SUbear]

Nonsense. Truth is a perfect defense. I guarantee you there is no confidentiality clause with respect to those sort of things. He has 1st Amendment rights as well. They would have to pay him.

Sorry, but first amendment does not apply to contractual obligations. This is because you agree to it when you accept the contract.

 

[SUbear]

Nonsense. Truth is a perfect defense. I guarantee you there is no confidentiality clause with respect to those sort of things. He has 1st Amendment rights as well. They would have to pay him.

Nonsense. Truth is a perfect defense. I guarantee you there is no confidentiality clause with respect to those sort of things. He has 1st Amendment rights as well. They would have to pay him.

Simply not true that telling the truth is a perfect defense in contractual issues. Example: If you agree to a legal damage settlement and are paid out with a no tell agreement and you then talk about it, the payer has every right even if you spoke truely to get the payment back plus penalties for you talking even if you spoke the truth. In other words the payer would be able to sue the payee and would likely win that suit.
Not knowing the language of his contract, neither you nor I can say for certain if he would be entitled to payment. I do agree that SU might just pay out his contract to avoid litigation however.

 

[Crusty]

Simply not true that telling the truth is a perfect defense in contractual issues. Example: If you agree to a legal damage settlement and are paid out with a no tell agreement and you then talk about it, the payer has every right even if you spoke truely to get the payment back plus penalties for you talking even if you spoke the truth. In other words the payer would be able to sue the payee and would likely win that suit.
Not knowing the language of his contract, neither you nor I can say for certain if he would be entitled to payment. I do agree that SU might just pay out his contract to avoid litigation however.

A contract CA would make the terms of the contract confidential and nothing else. He certainly would not have received any consideration for something not in the contract.

If he spoke the truth SU would have no case for defamation.

If he signed a settlement agreement, which I highly doubt, that is an entirely different issue.