HCSS - Dont forget your home State (lessons learned from GRob)!

[chakka3421]

I really dont have any gripes about HCSS coaching style.

However, I am critical of HCSS recruiting and he seems that doesn't yet realize that he making a huge mistake by following the same path as Grob regarding NYS recruiting and is currently in the process of burning many of the bridges that FHCDM rebuilt with the NY high school coaches around NYS (especially NYC coaches yes I have inside knowledge about what's going on around NYC and its really a shame but there is still time).

As HC of the only BCS team in NY, the NY high school coaches expect the HC from Syracuse to personally recruit instate. NO other coach in the nation has this opportunity to do this with the NYS high school coaches as the door is always open to the HC from SU - high school coaches have egos too and they need that TLC a HC from SU can give them. Its a tradition dating back to the Coach Mac years (maybe even before). I heard a speech given by Coach Mac a long time ago stating that once he regularly recruited the top 6-7 annually from NY, he started winning and winning big - same with Coach P.

As we know GRob literally "burned" all those bridges by going "national" in recruiting (idiot).

Early on FHCDM realized that Grob burned those relationships with NYS high school coaches leading to the "build a fence around NYS" campaign (remember that?). FHCDM understood this important lesson and went on every instate recruiting visit mainly to not only get quality recruits but to rebuild the recruiting relationships in NYS and especially NYC with the long term goal of getting the top 6-7 every year from NY - same as his mentor Coach Mac who gave him this advice!

GRob made the mistake of "going national" in recruiting...and its starting to smell like the same recruiting style is occurring with HCSS and his staff. Dont forget your home state HCSS - youre about to make the same huge mistake that GRob made!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think HCSS' issue is that he doesn't have an Anselmo. Instead, he's got Moore, and, well...

 

[AlbCuse]

Nas Howard, Thomas Holley, Wayne Williams, Chad Mavety?

Seems like they're still pushing for NY guys to me.

 

[javadoc]

As HC of the only BCS team in NY, the NY high school coaches expect the HC from Syracuse to personally recruit instate. NO other coach in the nation has this opportunity to do this with the NYS high school coaches as the door is always open to the HC from SU - high school coaches have egos too and they need that TLC a HC from SU can give them. Its a tradition dating back to the Coach Mac years (maybe even before). I heard a speech given by Coach Mac a long time ago stating that once he regularly recruited the top 6-7 annually from NY, he started winning and winning big - same with Coach P.

I hear what you are saying, but to be honest, my gut reaction is similar to the sentiments that Moore expressed about prospects from down near NYC. As a coach, you should see to it that your kids go to schools that will be good for THEM. It's not about having your freaking ego stroked.

:bang:

 

[TheCusian]

So NY HS coaches are not feeling the love? I don't have insight or sources - but to expect the same treatment that Marrone gave (a NYC guy) is probably a bit much.

Playing devils advocate here - but if Marrone was so great for them, where are all the NY recruits? Maybe Shafer and co. looked at the results from their previous efforts and looked at their connections/talent levels in other states and made a decision to focus on where they would have success? I think it's a practical decision (if true). Only so much time and money - onus is on these guys to bring in the best talent they can. Their jobs are on the line.

Perfect world the build a fence around NY and pull high level recruits from the new areas (FL, IL, GA) and traditional old areas (NJ, PA, OH). But I'd bet you have to take a stand somewhere.

 

[dollarbill44]

The only coach I can recall getting a big share of the NYS talent was Coach Mac. My recollection is that Coach P got a lot of his talent from CT, MA, NJ and PA. Marrone went after a lot of NY guys but didn't seem to close on too many of the big ones, although he did seem to be making inroads.

It's also a two-way street. How many times does a girl have to say no before you stop asking her out?

 

[OrangeAl]

So NY HS coaches are not feeling the love? I don't have insight or sources - but to expect the same treatment that Marrone gave (a NYC guy) is probably a bit much.

Playing devils advocate here - but if Marrone was so great for them, where are all the NY recruits? Maybe Shafer and co. looked at the results from their previous efforts and looked at their connections/talent levels in other states and made a decision to focus on where they would have success? I think it's a practical decision (if true). Only so much time and money - onus is on these guys to bring in the best talent they can. Their jobs are on the line.

Perfect world the build a fence around NY and pull high level recruits from the new areas (FL, IL, GA) and traditional old areas (NJ, PA, OH). But I'd bet you have to take a stand somewhere.

Hunt, Broyld, Morgan, Reddish, MacFarlane are all young NYS players we're counting on.

 

[GoSU96]

So NY HS coaches are not feeling the love? I don't have insight or sources - but to expect the same treatment that Marrone gave (a NYC guy) is probably a bit much.

Playing devils advocate here - but if Marrone was so great for them, where are all the NY recruits? Maybe Shafer and co. looked at the results from their previous efforts and looked at their connections/talent levels in other states and made a decision to focus on where they would have success? I think it's a practical decision (if true). Only so much time and money - onus is on these guys to bring in the best talent they can. Their jobs are on the line.

Perfect world the build a fence around NY and pull high level recruits from the new areas (FL, IL, GA) and traditional old areas (NJ, PA, OH). But I'd bet you have to take a stand somewhere.

8 out of 22 starters are from NY, all three active kickers, and 5 second unit guys. Total lack of success.

25% of the scholarship players are from NY.

 

[TheCusian]

Hunt, Broyld, Morgan, Reddish, MacFarlane are all young NYS players we're counting on.

Agreed. I think NYS players can be very good for us and they shouldn't give up on NYS altogether - nor is there any indication that's happening. Shafer extended an offer to a player Marrone didn't want from Rochester.

Shafer has said as much - he's focusing on kids who have passion for football and want to be here - irregardless from where they come from.

 

[chakka3421]

The only coach I can recall getting a big share of the NYS talent was Coach Mac. My recollection is that Coach P got a lot of his talent from CT, MA, NJ and PA. Marrone went after a lot of NY guys but didn't seem to close on too many of the big ones, although he did seem to be making inroads.

It's also a two-way street. How many times does a girl have to say no before you stop asking her out?

Coach P built upon the NY High School coaching relationships and was very much loved and still talked about here in NYS. As soon as he got the job at UConn he was invited to the NYS Coaches Association annual meeting to speak. He did pick up some NY recruits because of his long standing relationships.

I hear what you are saying, but to be honest, my gut reaction is similar to the sentiments that Moore expressed about prospects from down near NYC. As a coach, you should see to it that your kids go to schools that will be good for THEM. It's not about having your freaking ego stroked.
:bang:

Its simply called relationship management. HCSS could attend and provide for clinics for NYS high school coaches just like Coach P and FHCDM did...from game planning to conditioning, etc.

The HC from Syracuse can have a huge influence on NYS high school coaching politics if nurtured properly - I just dont see HCSS leveraging that or maybe he just doesnt know how to do that without Anselmo.

 

[CUSU]

here is an example of them still in NYC from today.

Haris Mrkulic ‏@HMrkulic4h
Syracuse in the building today. Lets hope things go my way

he is from queens and goes to nassau, 6'4 305 OL

 

[chakka3421]

here is an example of them still in NYC from today.

Haris Mrkulic ‏@HMrkulic4h
Syracuse in the building today. Lets hope things go my way

he is from queens and goes to nassau, 6'4 305 OL

Now that is great news to hear! Thank you for that one! Do you know who is visiting?

 

[CUSU]

Now that is great news to hear! Thank you for that one! Do you know who is visiting?

not sure

 

[Legendof44]

Rob Moore is constantly in NYC for recruiting. Im assuming HCSS will be doing camps there when time allows it.

 

[javadoc]

Its simply called relationship management. HCSS could attend and provide for clinics for NYS high school coaches just like Coach P and FHCDM did...from game planning to conditioning, etc.

Again, I understand what you are saying, but it also sounds to me like non-productive lead time. How much time and effort does HCSS - or any coach - have to spend jumping through hoops to win the approval of NYSHS coaches? What if he could go elsewhere and get players as good or better without having to spend so much unproductive lead time?

And what happens with the next coaching change? The next guy has to go through the same grinder? Prospects from your own state are supposed to be easier to get than guys from other states. Isn't that the way it works in the places where the state school is a powerhouse? How is Syracuse ever going to be NYS's team if there are conditions and qualifications, and that status needs to be re-established for every new coach?

 

[Dcuse]

Coach P built upon the NY High School coaching relationships and was very much loved and still talked about here in NYS. As soon as he got the job at UConn he was invited to the NYS Coaches Association annual meeting to speak. He did pick up some NY recruits because of his long standing relationships.



Its simply called relationship management. HCSS could attend and provide for clinics for NYS high school coaches just like Coach P and FHCDM did...from game planning to conditioning, etc.

The HC from Syracuse can have a huge influence on NYS high school coaching politics if nurtured properly - I just dont see HCSS leveraging that or maybe he just doesnt know how to do that without Anselmo.

I understand that Shafer DID conduct clinics AND camps down in NYC this past summer. I think you may be mistaken about his efforts in that area.He has attempted
damage control since Marrone and Anselmo left. I guess Moore will be our guy in that area going forward and to be honest, I don't know how much relationship he has with High School coaches there.

 

[anomander]

So NY HS coaches are not feeling the love? I don't have insight or sources - but to expect the same treatment that Marrone gave (a NYC guy) is probably a bit much.

Playing devils advocate here - but if Marrone Maybe Shafer and co. looked at the results from their previous efforts and looked at their connections/talent levels in other states and made a decision to focus on where they would have success? I think it's a practical decision (if true). Only so much time and money - onus is on these guys to bring in the best talent they can. Their jobs are on the line.

Perfect world the build a fence around NY and pull high level recruits from the new areas (FL, IL, GA) and traditional old areas (NJ, PA, OH). But I'd bet you have to take a stand somewhere.

I totally disagree with this. The core of our team is made up of NYS kids. There is this perception that we haven't recruited NY well just because we missed out on the top guy each year, when in fact we did a great job of getting very productive players in each season. Just off the top of my head Hunt, Mackey, Robinson, Foy, Palmer, McFarland, Broyld, Kobena Welsh, Bromley, Reddish, Morgan, and Norton are all key contributors this season, and you still have guys like Simmons, Cornelius, Scissum, and Sloan. For a state that allegedly doesn't produce a lot of talent we have a ton of kid who turned out to be pretty good players. NYS has a horrible reputation, but a lot of that is just a lack of coverage compared to the southeast. You can find players around here and Marrone proved that. Not to mention it's a hell of a lot easier to recruit the area. Just look how hard it is for us to get kids up on visits. Sure were pulling some Illinois and Florida kids, but were never going to get the best players from those areas. We can find the same type of kids right in our backyard. Sure you still need to be in FLA for the speed positions, and hit Illinois where our coaches have good relationships, but we also need to get some coaches on this staff with deep roots in the northeast. I always find it very surprising that people got so upset missing out on Ishaq, Jones, and Ebo. Why did we expect these kids to commit? Out of blind loyalty? We were basically just getting started replanting our roots in the area. We were still building the relationships, and the sense that we want the NYS kids on our roster. I think we were starting to see the payoff last season, while not getting Ebo, we basically had every one of the other best kids in the state. We were really going to see the fruits of the labor pay off down the road once we established ourselves both in the area, and more importantly on the field. We have to make it second nature for in state kids just to assume that Syracuse is the only option, but it looks like we have strayed from that, and honestly I am a bit worried about it. Very few schools win not being able to keep home state kids home. Marrone proved that there is more the enough talent here, despite not having 3 or 4 stars, you just have to be able to go out and find out.

 

[CUSU]

Here ya go. This is from tonight I believe.

@MattPark1: .@Coach_Shafer on recruiting NY: "it's a huge priority for me." http://t.co/sDTSgxw52Q @CuseFootball #OrangeNation


iPhone 7 using Tapatalk

 

[OrangeAl]

We know we need more fan support. As a NYS fan, it's just more interesting to root for players who come from places I'm familiar with.

 

[Dcuse]

Here ya go. This is from tonight I believe.

@MattPark1: .@Coach_Shafer on recruiting NY: "it's a huge priority for me." http://t.co/sDTSgxw52Q @CuseFootball #OrangeNation


iPhone 7 using Tapatalk

That is from tonight and it was his answer to my question which came to me from this thread

 

[anomander]

Here ya go. This is from tonight I believe.

@MattPark1: .@Coach_Shafer on recruiting NY: "it's a huge priority for me." http://t.co/sDTSgxw52Q @CuseFootball #OrangeNation


iPhone 7 using Tapatalk

Sounded a lot like we just want the Thomas Holleys, Curtis Samuels, and Qadree Ollisons of the state

 

[TheCusian]

I totally disagree with this. The core of our team is made up of NYS kids. There is this perception that we haven't recruited NY well just because we missed out on the top guy each year, when in fact we did a great job of getting very productive players in each season. Just off the top of my head Hunt, Mackey, Robinson, Foy, Palmer, McFarland, Broyld, Kobena Welsh, Bromley, Reddish, Morgan, and Norton are all key contributors this season, and you still have guys like Simmons, Cornelius, Scissum, and Sloan. For a state that allegedly doesn't produce a lot of talent we have a ton of kid who turned out to be pretty good players. NYS has a horrible reputation, but a lot of that is just a lack of coverage compared to the southeast. You can find players around here and Marrone proved that. Not to mention it's a hell of a lot easier to recruit the area. Just look how hard it is for us to get kids up on visits. Sure were pulling some Illinois and Florida kids, but were never going to get the best players from those areas. We can find the same type of kids right in our backyard. Sure you still need to be in FLA for the speed positions, and hit Illinois where our coaches have good relationships, but we also need to get some coaches on this staff with deep roots in the northeast. I always find it very surprising that people got so upset missing out on Ishaq, Jones, and Ebo. Why did we expect these kids to commit? Out of blind loyalty? We were basically just getting started replanting our roots in the area. We were still building the relationships, and the sense that we want the NYS kids on our roster. I think we were starting to see the payoff last season, while not getting Ebo, we basically had every one of the other best kids in the state. We were really going to see the fruits of the labor pay off down the road once we established ourselves both in the area, and more importantly on the field. We have to make it second nature for in state kids just to assume that Syracuse is the only option, but it looks like we have strayed from that, and honestly I am a bit worried about it. Very few schools win not being able to keep home state kids home. Marrone proved that there is more the enough talent here, despite not having 3 or 4 stars, you just have to be able to go out and find out.

I agree 1000% with this. I was playing devils advocate. We are at our best with good NYS talent, FL/OH/PA/NJ kids sprinkled in.

 

[Chip]

This stuff gets said quite a bit, but GRob did get NYS recruits, and I can't imagine that Shafer doesn't prioritize it at all.

Sure, the Marrone era, thanks to his first assistant choice Anselmo, had NYC as a priority. But he took Anselmo with him. Anselmo was kind of unique (in a good way) when it came to NYC recruiting.

To me, a lot of this stuff seems overblown. And hearing how a few 4 stars or 5 star NYC guys picked ND or Ohio State instead doesn't really prove the point.

It would just be easier to digest this if we could hear which recruits we're ignoring. Or which HS coaches we're making no attempt to build a relationship with, as well as where that HS coach's players are ending up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[cuseinchina]

I think people expecting us to get the top kids out of NYC every year just because we are in New York state and have some relationships built ignores the reality of what teenagers in New York City are all about. For the most part, regardless of whether it suits their best interests or not, the top players are going to go to the biggest name school they can because ego and brand are the overriding factors driving decision making. They are big fish in a relatively small pond and get outsized attention locally because they are in NYC. Having said that we should nail down the next tier and think we have done a decent job of doing that. I seriously doubt Shafer is giving up on NYC - I just think he may have given up wasting resources on 4 star talent out of there that is never going to pick Syracuse anyway (again despite their interests). I also would say Shafer is pure midwest - you can bet he's way more at home talking to a HS coach in Ohio or Chicago then he is talking to a guy in Brooklyn - it's just culturally very very different and difficult to penetrate. But if we start winning 8 games plus a year and keep putting in the effort on the best guys we have a shot at down there, we should have not trouble doing very well there.

 

[anomander]

This stuff gets said quite a bit, but GRob did get NYS recruits, and I can't imagine that Shafer doesn't prioritize it at all.

Sure, the Marrone era, thanks to his first assistant choice Anselmo, had NYC as a priority. But he took Anselmo with him. Anselmo was kind of unique (in a good way) when it came to NYC recruiting.

To me, a lot of this stuff seems overblown. And hearing how a few 4 stars or 5 star NYC guys picked ND or Ohio State instead doesn't really prove the point.

It would just be easier to digest this if we could hear which recruits we're ignoring. Or which HS coaches we're making no attempt to build a relationship with, as well as where that HS coach's players are ending up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk -

I want to say Justin Noye (East High), Jalen Williams (Newburgh Free) and the interior lineman from Tottenville were offered by the prior staff, but weren't upheld by Shafer. Could be more, that's all I got for now.