Here is what I can PROMISE all the "fire Shafer" people

[Dcuse]

The EXACT same position we are in right now in 3 years. Probably worse- and I don't care if we hire Bill Belichek. Brand new recruiting grounds which will take time to infiltrate- brand new systems to teach with painful growing pains-a depleted recruiting class and- very likely- major transfers from current team.
Other than that we should be just fine.

 

[jekelish]

The EXACT same position we are in right now in 3 years. Probably worse- and I don't care if we hire Bill Belichek. Brand new recruiting grounds which will take time to infiltrate- brand new systems to teach with painful growing pains-a depleted recruiting class and- very likely- major transfers from current team.
Other than that we should be just fine.

I've been told straight up by some younger players they'll transfer if Shafer gets fired. I'm talking about some younger guys even the naysayers are excited about. And no, obviously I'm not going to name names.

 

[storange]

I've been told straight up by some younger players they'll transfer if Shafer gets fired. I'm talking about some younger guys even the naysayers are excited about. And no, obviously I'm not going to name names.

Unless things really go south I think there is little chance fo Shafer going anywhere until after next year. Coyle seems like a smart man

 

[K Otto XLIV]

The EXACT same position we are in right now in 3 years. Probably worse- and I don't care if we hire Bill Belichek. Brand new recruiting grounds which will take time to infiltrate- brand new systems to teach with painful growing pains-a depleted recruiting class and- very likely- major transfers from current team.
Other than that we should be just fine.

I highly doubt that. First this transfer talk is silly. It just doesn't happen. This isn't basketball. If a kid wants to leave their options are limited to 1AA. Secondly you are assuming that the new HC isn't a better recruiter than Shafer and doesn't have recruiting ties to high schools already. Then you are also assuming that the new HC is as bad at actually coaching football as Shafer has been. Unless you bring in GRob it is almost impossible to be worse than we currently are. Even if Shafer makes it to next year he will have our 2nd worst winning % of our last 7 coaches. He is not even as good as Maloney.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I've been told straight up by some younger players they'll transfer if Shafer gets fired. I'm talking about some younger guys even the naysayers are excited about. And no, obviously I'm not going to name names.

Honestly, I think the "FireHCSS" crowd is being a little premature.
Last year was a wash with all the injuries and turmoil, and there certainly wasn't a Dungey to turn to for relief. Most of us just want to see SOME progress, not this regression that's been evident...throughout the defense especially. I'm sick and tired of seeing other programs trending in the right direction, yet we seem to be stuck in the mud.
I think HCSS gets another year, but make no mistake, another dud and he should definitely lose his job.

 

[Frozen]

and I don't care if we hire Bill Belichek. .

Do you think he'd come?

 

[dasher]

I highly doubt that. First this transfer talk is silly. It just doesn't happen. This isn't basketball. If a kid wants to leave their options are limited to 1AA. Secondly you are assuming that the new HC isn't a better recruiter than Shafer and doesn't have recruiting ties to high schools already. Then you are also assuming that the new HC is as bad at actually coaching football as Shafer has been. Unless you bring in GRob it is almost impossible to be worse than we currently are. Even if Shafer makes it to next year he will have our 2nd worst winning % of our last 7 coaches. He is not even as good as Maloney.

This sounds a lot like the fire P crowd back in the day. Firing SS will set this program back. Way back. Maybe in the long run it would be worth it. Probably not. We really aren't that far away. Let's not forget the sac mac crew back in the mid-80's. Then we broke out in '87. I believe we are close to that. By the way, coach mac rarely knew how many time outs we had. They had to get him off the head sets because he rambled. SS is Vince Lombardi next to Mac.

 

[NineOneSeven]

That's a little over dramatic but some of that is for sure possible. I guess I'm on board with one more year to see how it plays out. Honestly I'm just numb to syracuse football.

However, Anything less than six wins next year and that's it.

It's a stringent results oriented gig. If you don't cut it, you're gone. It's tough, but then I remember you're making over a million dollars to coach a sport.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

This sounds a lot like the fire P crowd back in the day. Firing SS will set this program back. Way back. Maybe in the long run it would be worth it. Probably not. We really aren't that far away. Let's not forget the sac mac crew back in the mid-80's. Then we broke out in '87. I believe we are close to that. By the way, coach mac rarely knew how many time outs we had. They had to get him off the head sets because he rambled. SS is Vince Lombardi next to Mac.

We really cannot fall much further back. I think that is what many of you are missing. Our O is not producing. Our D is not producing. And it is not just this year but all 3 years. We are young on D but we are not seeing much promise from those young players. We have had plenty of young players in the past on D show us glimpses. We haven't seen that this year. Our O talent has been so bad that people are mistakenly thinking we have anything but average ACC players. Shafer has brought us back into a 3-4 win program. Hard to get worse.

 

[dasher]

That's a little over dramatic but some of that is for sure possible. I guess I'm on board with one more year to see how it plays out. Honestly I'm just numb to syracuse football.

However, Anything less than six wins next year and that's it.

It's a stringent results oriented gig. If you don't cut it, you're gone. It's tough, but then I remember you're making over a million dollars to coach a sport.

I think we have seen enough improvement in our recruiting that this staff deserves the chance to coach their kids. The only problem is that recruiting will take a hit next year when other schools tell recruits that SS is on the last or next to last year of his contract.

 

[dasher]

We really cannot fall much further back. I think that is what many of you are missing. Our O is not producing. Our D is not producing. And it is not just this year but all 3 years. We are young on D but we are not seeing much promise from those young players. We have had plenty of young players in the past on D show us glimpses. We haven't seen that this year. Our O talent has been so bad that people are mistakenly thinking we have anything but average ACC players. Shafer has brought us back into a 3-4 win program. Hard to get worse.

How old are you? We can fall a lot further back. Our O is much better than what it was (without Nassib as a jr and sr). We have a freshman qb and a freshamn rb.. Our team is very young.

 

[rrlbees]

I've been told straight up by some younger players they'll transfer if Shafer gets fired. I'm talking about some younger guys even the naysayers are excited about. And no, obviously I'm not going to name names.

I am a supporter of Shafer and not only want him to succeed but find silly any talk about letting him go this year or even next. BUT, if discussions are taking place or will take place on whether to let him go, player transfers or recruiting losses should never ever be considered.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think we have seen enough improvement in our recruiting that this staff deserves the chance to coach their kids. The only problem is that recruiting will take a hit next year when other schools tell recruits that SS is on the last or next to last year of his contract.

I agree. Like I said, I'll don't consider myself knowledgeable or bold enough to clamor for anyone's firing. I just roll with whatever happens.


However, your key word here is coaching. We need to find out where the line is between just having better talent, and well coached players. Obviously you want positive overlap, but you see examples of both extremes all the time. My fear is while we might get better players, we don't maximize their ability. This remains to be seen, of course, hence next year. But if I have a choice between poor coaching with bad players and poor coaching with good players, we know what the better option is.

 

[GoSU96]

He gets through next year.

Last year was an incomplete, he had the bad luck of an experienced roster getting crushed by injuries.

This year was always going to be staging for 2016, even more so once Hunt got hurt. This isn't hindsight, focusing on wins/losses was always going to lead to disappointment this year.

Start spotting in some of the second unit OL, get the other guys in the secondary reps and get ready for next year.

You have a fearless QB that can make plays, he's not Troy Nunes being reckless and trying to do more than he is capable of, shift the play mix to more pass/more distribution, run more plays, and let the chips fall where they may. Feed the ball to Fredricks, rotate in Custis and Womack and other guys in the WR unit.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

How old are you? We can fall a lot further back. Our O is much better than what it was (without Nassib as a jr and sr). We have a freshman qb and a freshamn rb.. Our team is very young.

Statistically our O isn't' much better though. That is the issue. It is perception. We are producing at a 2013 level on O. We are young but just because they are young doesn't mean they will end up being good. Whigham looked great when he was young too. As did McFarlane and Morris. Now that these guys are older they suck and the young guys are playing. Our young defenders have shown us nothing so far.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

This sounds a lot like the fire P crowd back in the day. Firing SS will set this program back. Way back. Maybe in the long run it would be worth it. Probably not. We really aren't that far away. Let's not forget the sac mac crew back in the mid-80's. Then we broke out in '87. I believe we are close to that. By the way, coach mac rarely knew how many time outs we had. They had to get him off the head sets because he rambled. SS is Vince Lombardi next to Mac.

Coach P went 39-33 over his last 6 seasons, and the majority of the internet wanted him fired.

GRob and Marrone COMBINED didn't get to 39 wins, in 8 seasons.

Silly internet.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I've been told straight up by some younger players they'll transfer if Shafer gets fired. I'm talking about some younger guys even the naysayers are excited about. And no, obviously I'm not going to name names.

Yeah, well, if it comes to that, maybe that's not a great decision for them and if faced with that actual decision things shake out a little bit differently.

 

[TheCusian]

We really cannot fall much further back. I think that is what many of you are missing. Our O is not producing. Our D is not producing. And it is not just this year but all 3 years. We are young on D but we are not seeing much promise from those young players. We have had plenty of young players in the past on D show us glimpses. We haven't seen that this year. Our O talent has been so bad that people are mistakenly thinking we have anything but average ACC players. Shafer has brought us back into a 3-4 win program. Hard to get worse.

Proper context: all our best players are young outside of Thompson.

I've not given up on any of the freshman and sophomore defensive players. They can all play, they are just inconsistent. Cordy a sophomore returns a fumble for a TD. Winfield has 2 nice INT and caused a fumble on a sack vs UVa. No one runs inside on Clark well. Q. Shepherd caught a INT vs UVa. Franklin is a damn fine leader. Bennett has had more than a glimpse. He's been good.

I don't think Dungey is average. I'm fine with average ACC players (for now) because they are better than what we've had. It should also be said that Moe Neal is above average recruit at a skill position - and we just landed a 5* TE.

We have 3 wins now. Unless you know the future, we have a chance at winning more games.

 

[Jack_Ball]

If we are in that bad of shape we mite as well drop down a level? I want Shaf to succeed as much as anyone else does but if we go 3-9 again or 4-8 with attendance being what it is I don't see how you can keep him around? There are not too many Power 5 programs ranked lower than us...

 

[TheCusian]

Statistically our O isn't' much better though. That is the issue. It is perception. We are producing at a 2013 level on O. We are young but just because they are young doesn't mean they will end up being good. Whigham looked great when he was young too. As did McFarlane and Morris. Now that these guys are older they suck and the young guys are playing. Our young defenders have shown us nothing so far.

Bennett? I mean he's our leading tackler with 41.

Cordy is 11th in the ACC in TFL.

Winfield is tied for 5th in INT.

They've shown us that they are inexperienced.

 

[RF2044]

I would prefer to see Shafer succeed, so that he renders the point moot.

But if we do move on, the one thing I'd point out to Dcuse is that setting the program back might not happen if we hired an experienced coach with a track record of success. Doesn't mean its a guarantee [obviously there are exceptions] but a coach who's proven his system and ability to build a program is far more likely to be successful than someone who's never been a HC before.

Our resources now, today are better than they have ever been for football. If Shafer flops, then the way to avoid a backslide is to invest in the program.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Bennett? I mean he's our leading tackler with 41.

Cordy is 11th in the ACC in TFL.

Winfield is tied for 5th in INT.

They've shown us that they are inexperienced.

I like Bennett a lot. I think our DEs have played well. Outside of that we have struggled everywhere else. The main point is that most of the young players have not stood out. On top of that our D players the last few years seem to always regress. That is the worry. Our young D players this year have not looked as good as our young D players in years past. Our young D players in years past have seemed to get worse. So just because a young player is playing doesn't guarantee they will be good when they are older.

 

[dasher]

I would prefer to see Shafer succeed, so that he renders the point moot.

But if we do move on, the one thing I'd point out to Dcuse is that setting the program back might not happen if we hired an experienced coach with a track record of success. Doesn't mean its a guarantee [obviously there are exceptions] but a coach who's proven his system and ability to build a program is far more likely to be successful than someone who's never been a HC before.

Our resources now, today are better than they have ever been for football. If Shafer flops, then the way to avoid a backslide is to invest in the program.

I think his point,and it's one I agree with it, is that the relationships that this staff has made with high school coaches go right out the window. I think we are on the verge. Go back and look at Mac's first 3 years. Take a look at Mac's first 6 years. It takes time. We have Neal coming in. We have a 5 star tight end coming in. I don't care to repeat Ray Rice again.

 

[jekelish]

I think his point,and it's one I agree with it, is that the relationships that this staff has made with high school coaches go right out the window. I think we are on the verge. Go back and look at Mac's first 3 years. Take a look at Mac's first 6 years. It takes time. We have Neal coming in. We have a 5 star tight end coming in. I don't care to repeat Ray Rice again.

Agree, regarding the potential pipelines they've opened up. They've made HUGE inroads at some major schools that produce a ton of big time talent (particularly in Florida, and to an extent New Jersey). It would suck to see that all get thrown way.

 

[Millhouse]

Statistically our O isn't' much better though. That is the issue. It is perception. We are producing at a 2013 level on O. We are young but just because they are young doesn't mean they will end up being good. Whigham looked great when he was young too. As did McFarlane and Morris. Now that these guys are older they suck and the young guys are playing. Our young defenders have shown us nothing so far.

people are getting fooled by 28 defensive/overtime points in 5 games.

"i don't know why we are so bad at gaining yards and so good at scoring but whatever, keep it up"

we have a great QB, a promising RB, talented WR and the offense is still pretty bad at moving the ball. that means someone's gotta go. doesn't have to be shafer