Here's an interesting Melo stat

[OrangeDW]

I think his greatness is overstated. Phil also didn't win until Pippin's game matured, he toughened up, and a couple other pieces were added to the team. He got as far in the playoffs his first year as Collins got the previous year, and he was already familiar with the team when he took over since Phil was an assistant under Collins. During the 94-95 season the Bulls were 34-31 without Jordan and 13-4 with him. Why wasn't he working his magic then? He got to the Lakers just as Kobe was becoming Kobe and Shaq was the most dominant center in the league since Wilt. During the threepeat you could argue they were the two best players in the league. He wasn't the first to corral Rodman, Chuck Daly did it first, and Phil did it by mostly letting Rodman do his thing while Jordan demanded his respect. He wasn't even the one that instituted the triangle offense that is credited with forcing all those guys to play as a team. Tex Winter was.

He was great at managing egos. That was his gift. His second gift was putting himself in position to coach 3 of the top 10-20 players of all time in their prime. Just because a couple coaches didn't win with Jordan, Kobe, or Shaq, doesn't mean a bunch others wouldn't have.

I think he was certainly a great coach. But yeah, also very, very lucky.

Ultimately, a coach has gotta have the players.

He's been a clown in NY though.

 

[sufandu]

I think he was certainly a great coach. But yeah, also very, very lucky.

Ultimately, a coach has gotta have the players.

He's been a clown in NY though.

Yeah. And to be clear, I wasn't saying he was a bad coach, just that he gets more credit than he deserves. The only coach that may have coached as much talent was Red Auerbach. And he probably deserves more credit because he was responsible for bringing in the talent.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah. And to be clear, I wasn't saying he was a bad coach, just that he gets more credit than he deserves. The only coach that may have coached as much talent was Red Auerbach. And he probably deserves more credit because he was responsible for bringing in the talent.

I think that Jerry Krause deserves a significant amount of credit too. Getting Pippen and Grant at the spots he got them were fantastic moves. Later, Kukoc was a great pickup and the trade for Rodman paid off big time.

 

[HOFCeluck]

That was a great piece.

 

[Newhouser]

I think his greatness is overstated. Phil also didn't win until Pippin's game matured, he toughened up, and a couple other pieces were added to the team. He got as far in the playoffs his first year as Collins got the previous year, and he was already familiar with the team when he took over since Phil was an assistant under Collins. During the 94-95 season the Bulls were 34-31 without Jordan and 13-4 with him. Why wasn't he working his magic then? He got to the Lakers just as Kobe was becoming Kobe and Shaq was the most dominant center in the league since Wilt. During the threepeat you could argue they were the two best players in the league. He wasn't the first to corral Rodman, Chuck Daly did it first, and Phil did it by mostly letting Rodman do his thing while Jordan demanded his respect. He wasn't even the one that instituted the triangle offense that is credited with forcing all those guys to play as a team. Tex Winter was.

He was great at managing egos. That was his gift. His second gift was putting himself in position to coach 3 of the top 10-20 players of all time in their prime. Just because a couple coaches didn't win with Jordan, Kobe, or Shaq, doesn't mean a bunch others wouldn't have.

Phil and Pat Riley share the same talent - know when a team is going to be good and work your way into that coaching situation, and then know when to get out before the results start changing. Riley gets more respect on my scale because his front office success dwarfs Phils.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Yeah. And to be clear, I wasn't saying he was a bad coach, just that he gets more credit than he deserves. The only coach that may have coached as much talent was Red Auerbach. And he probably deserves more credit because he was responsible for bringing in the talent.

He also won a lot in the minor league he coached in.