History Repeating

[David321]

Numbers aren’t transparent. Lot of the rumors are inflated. Then again Florida state has spent a ton the last two years and you see the talent infusion.

Reality is we have made up a lot of ground in the past year. We were in a bad spot last year. The last few months have been a marked improvement. The key is sustaining it year after year.

We’ve had some donors step up. Now we need local businesses to up their game and we need a grassroots effort to pile on (the new collective in an ideal world adds 5-10M on its own but we’re a long way away from that). 6-10M gets you in a very good spot for football and basketball.

Basketball is easy in that 2M is probably a base case for us and say 4M a year puts you in a very good spot. That’s very attainable. It’s football that’s harder. But not every player chooses a college originally for money. You have to be able to retain guys. We weren’t able to do that as well with football last year. I don’t think it’ll be an issue this year. Guys will leave for other reasons though.

Thanks for this explanation, feel like I understand it a bit better. It’s so odd how it’s so important, and talked about so much, while at the same time still being so shadowy.

 

[Cusefan95]

Well, every coach is flawed, so you can't say P wasn't. He did a lot of things right and was respected in the fraternity. And the university did not give him the support he deserved to keep things going. But if the single only issue had been lack of investment, other schools would have been drooling to snatch him up to run their program. All of those AD's and other coaches were aware of how we had fallen behind and understood how good P was.

I agree no coach is perfect - but using nobody hiring Coach P after Cuse fired him is pretty terrible evidence. Part of the issue is every AD wants to “win the press conference”, and the way Syracuse played the last 3 years Coach P was here made that impossible. There was interest in P in the early 90s - and the way Coach P’s career played out is part of why I don’t begrudge a coach for jumping to a better situation when the opportunity presents itself.

(He might have thought Paterno would retire after he’d successfully transitioned Penn St to the Big Ten, so that might have been an option for him after a strong ‘93 season. Instead, that season was a train wreck, and Coach P was never as viable a head coaching candidate after that season. We’ll never know for sure, but there’s a chance Coach P bet on himself and lost).

 

[MGDCuse]

But let’s hire the 7-4 Holy Cross coach!!!

This is such a bad argument. The 7-4 guy won the patriot league 5 out of his 6 years there, including this year. He also made the FCS playoffs 4 out of his 6 years there. By your standard, we shouldn't consider Mullen either. His record got progressively worse every year at Florida and was fired before his last game there with a 5-6 record. I get if you don't like Chesney, but don't try to turn him into some terrible coach. He tied for first this year in his league with a team racked with injuries including his all league QB who will be a hot commodity in the transfer portal this off season.

 

[sufandu]

I agree no coach is perfect - but using nobody hiring Coach P after Cuse fired him is pretty terrible evidence. Part of the issue is every AD wants to “win the press conference”, and the way Syracuse played the last 3 years Coach P was here made that impossible. There was interest in P in the early 90s - and the way Coach P’s career played out is part of why I don’t begrudge a coach for jumping to a better situation when the opportunity presents itself.

(He might have thought Paterno would retire after he’d successfully transitioned Penn St to the Big Ten, so that might have been an option for him after a strong ‘93 season. Instead, that season was a train wreck, and Coach P was never as viable a head coaching candidate after that season. We’ll never know for sure, but there’s a chance Coach P bet on himself and lost).

Head coaches are recycled all the time after being fired. For whatever reason, he wasn't. As I said, he was a good coach. The administration didn't give him the support he should have had. To say he wasn't flawed is inaccurate.

People on here seem to want to either tear him down to being some terrible coach or elevate him to saint like status. Why can't we be more even keeled? He was a great teacher and understood fundamentals and technique. His teams were largely disciplined and organized. His length of time in the NFL as a position coach at a number of stops speak strongly to that. I'm not sure he was real creative or dynamic which may be why he never stuck as a coordinator in the NFL. He did a good job of surrounding himself with those types of people for a good chunck of his time here. That was a great complementary situation.

 

[kcsu]

We should be in a bowl every year. Win 7 as a floor and once every four or five years have a great year. Dino ended up failing and i believe it was because of a few factors. First i don't think he ever embraced the region for recruiting. Second, he made some horrible hires. Third he is one of the worst in game coaches I have ever seen. He did have lots of positives most of which were culture based which doesn't always transfer as easily as being a good recruiter and coach. We can and will do better. JW is an SU guy. Not some clown with two phones to his ears dreaming of LA or a coach who wears Hawaiian shirts in February in Syracuse.
JW is spot on in our need to have a guy with east coast experience. Most of the candidates who have been mentioned are solid. Mullen Ches Al and Bronco would do well here. I like Mullen but think that anyone of these guys will be a major upgrade over Dino.

 

[chuck]

The same is happening with Boeheim. Only with a former player as are head coach. Wish Autry the best either way.

 

[IthacaMatt]

At HOLY CROSS

On the one hand, Chesney could be like when BC hired the Cornell basketball coach, Steve Donohue. He beat us as BC coach, but after 4 years, he went back to the Ivys to coach at Penn. He lacked the charisma to draw top tier recruits.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We've never had first mover advantage on tangibles... Jake sat on his hands when the facilities races started and doing anything satisfactory in that regard was outside TGD's skill set... The board had their heads in the sand for way too long, convincing themselves we didn't need to do anything and it was just big schools wasting big dollars on nonsense (was a seriously flawed perspective, of course.)... The result - it's taken us forever to catch up... But with the dome renovations and new Lally complex, we should at least be more competitive in that space. Wildhack deserves a lot of credit for that part of his job. NIL is going to be tough. As a northeast private school with relatively small undergrad footprint, it's impossible to generate close to the same coffers of the big state schools and SEC powerhouses can... but the good news is, players love playing time and many don't want to sit 2 or 3 deep on the depth chart at a powerhouse school when they could be starting on a competitive team elsewhere .. The portal and NIL helps facilitate that dynamic now and we need to leverage it and leverage it well... it's not easy (as we saw with Dino, he had a real hard time keeping the cupboards stocked/depth), but that's the new dynamic...

I keep hearing that all these business leaders, sports announcers and pro athletes graduated from SU. Isn't it time they started supporting more on par with our peers schools? I think the people are out there.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Head coaches are recycled all the time after being fired. For whatever reason, he wasn't. As I said, he was a good coach. The administration didn't give him the support he should have had. To say he wasn't flawed is inaccurate.

People on here seem to want to either tear him down to being some terrible coach or elevate him to saint like status. Why can't we be more even keeled? He was a great teacher and understood fundamentals and technique. His teams were largely disciplined and organized. His length of time in the NFL as a position coach at a number of stops speak strongly to that. I'm not sure he was real creative or dynamic which may be why he never stuck as a coordinator in the NFL. He did a good job of surrounding himself with those types of people for a good chunck of his time here. That was a great complementary situation.

Pasqualoni & DeLeone got gun shy. Their clock management was as bad as Dino's for years, beginning with the McNabb teams. The last several years, their play calling became stale - 40 different shifts and formations to run about 5 plays. We always had quality line play, and our LBs hit hard. They had good athletes for the first 10 years, but they ran out.

 

[CNYGuy]

We should be in a bowl every year. Win 7 as a floor and once every four or five years have a great year. Dino ended up failing and i believe it was because of a few factors. First i don't think he ever embraced the region for recruiting. Second, he made some horrible hires. Third he is one of the worst in game coaches I have ever seen. He did have lots of positives most of which were culture based which doesn't always transfer as easily as being a good recruiter and coach. We can and will do better. JW is an SU guy. Not some clown with two phones to his ears dreaming of LA or a coach who wears Hawaiian shirts in February in Syracuse.
JW is spot on in our need to have a guy with east coast experience. Most of the candidates who have been mentioned are solid. Mullen Ches Al and Bronco would do well here. I like Mullen but think that anyone of these guys will be a major upgrade over Dino.

A bowl game every year is setting up for failure for anyone that's not an annual playoff contender, and we don't have the resources to come close to that.

Including this season, the only teams in the ACC with an active streak of 5+ bowl appearances is Clemson (soon to be 19) and North Carolina (soon to be 5).