Hokies

[cuseguy]

College sports is on the verge of killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

:bang:

 

[WickedOrange]

this is giving me diarrhea

 

[Faegan]

Well, we're going to see what Swofford is, or isn't, capable of now. He's operated from a position of relative strength... until now. I don't know what the protocol is, but he needs to get some candor out of the 13/14 programs still in the room. As of right now the ACC is a viable conference. Can he hold it together?

 

[NKR1978]

Ugh

The bro on the left is a Hoya. Of course.

http://deadspin.com/5962215/deadspin-i+team-who-are-those-amazing-lakers-bros

Links to his facebook page.

 

[rrlbees]

Makes perfect sense because NC State and Va Tech to SEC solve the political concerns of UVA and UNC to the B1G. Once the SEC and B1G go to 16, the Pac will have to act and pick off four Big 12 teams. At that point the ACC and Big 12 leftovers - which include some pretty appealing schools - merge. Then we'll have the four super conferences.

I said the same thing the other day. I still believe they go 4x16. The B10, SEC and Pac10 aren't going anywhere. What is left of the B12 and ACC will merge for the last 16 regardless of what it is called, ACC, B12, something else.


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[zeekay]

Well, we're going to see what Swofford is, or isn't, capable of now. He's operated from a position of relative strength... until now. I don't know what the protocol is, but he needs to get some candor out of the 13/14 programs still in the room. As of right now the ACC is a viable conference. Can he hold it together?

He did the most extreme thing of any conference. 50 million to leave. Everyone said ACC is set, impossible for teams to get out. BigTen waved their wads of cash and laughed at that. Swofford got beat. So yeah will need to come up with something else.

 

[cuseguy]

I said the same thing the other day. I still believe they go 4x16. The B10, SEC and Pac10 aren't going anywhere. What is left of the B12 and ACC will merge for the last 16 regardless of what it is called, ACC, B12, something else.


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I was going to like this. I don't like it but I agree with your thinking. Expansion in the coming months is going to make our heads spin. I want to crawl under a blanket and be back in the old Big East.

If anything, these conferences need to work on their names. It's a new world, folks.

 

[NKR1978]

I said the same thing the other day. I still believe they go 4x16. The B10, SEC and Pac10 aren't going anywhere. What is left of the B12 and ACC will merge for the last 16 regardless of what it is called, ACC, B12, something else.


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It's funny that I'm completely calm about it. For football we get to be with WVU, Pitt, Clemson, Miami, FSU, TCU, Baylor, Georgia Tech and (my guess) Texas. Basketball we get to rule the conference with Duke and either Louisville or UConn. The Syracuse/Duke rivalry replaces Duke/Carolina (wishful thinking).

 

[KaiserUEO]

BC has edge on SU because of its TV market and Boston.

Boy, the Big XII, or whatever they'd call it, would be pretty unattractive.

At least Syracuse can still offer a game at Giants Stadium. It's about all we got.

Still can't see unc walking away from their conf. All this could be used by the ACC to drop nd from the Orange Bowl and drop them into the group of 5 pool.

Thus forcing them all in.

 

[NKR1978]

At least Syracuse can still offer a game at Giants Stadium. It's about all we got.

Still can't see unc walking away from their conf. All this could be used by the ACC to drop nd from the Orange Bowl and drop them into the group of 5 pool.

Thus forcing them all in.

Haven't we seen from the ACC's experience with BC that it doesn't bring in anything.

 

[cuseguy]

It's funny that I'm completely calm about it. For football we get to be with WVU, Pitt, Clemson, Miami, FSU, TCU, Baylor, Georgia Tech and (my guess) Texas. Basketball we get to rule the conference with Duke and either Louisville or UConn. The Syracuse/Duke rivalry replaces Duke/Carolina (wishful thinking).

This would be funny. Florida State and Clemson leave for the Big 12 and wind up back in a conference with former Big East schools and some Big 12 castoffs.

 

[kingottoiii]

ACC basically got screwed by Texas.

Texas decided not to join the Pac-12 which would have killed the BigXII last year.

There is only room for 4 major conferences in the endgame. So we'll need some chips to fall in ACC's favor now to destabilize BigXII again.

Why even have 4? Why do we all assume 16 is the ideal number? The P12, B1G, and SEC could all easily go to 18 or even 20. How exactly is 18 worse than 16? It actually is easier to keep rivalries in tact as they are more like two conferences in one. The schools leftover would be crap. Power would be consolidated to the North, South, and Western conferences. Why not just go all in? Playoff will be the 3 conference champs plus the highest at large (which leaves a possibility for the now Power 3 schools however unlikely).

B1G adds ND/UNC/UVA/Pitt for 18 or SU/BC for 20
SEC adds FSU/Clemson/VT/NC St for 18 or Miami/GA Tech for 20
P12 adds Texas/Tech/OU/Okie St/K St/KU for 18 or New Mexico/Nevada for 20

Left over schools with 18: Miami/WV/GA Tech/SU/BC/TCU/Baylor/ISU/Wake/Duke
Left over with 20: WV/TCU/Baylor/ISU/Wake/Duke

 

[HtownOrange]

Some points to remember:

Texas is NOT joined at the hip with TTech, especially after TAMU split that coalition.
OU and Okie State are not joined at the hip, though there is a preference to remain together
Kansas and KState are not joined at the hip.
If the Big 12 is not raided, if FSU and Clemson go their way, they will take as many eastern teams with them as possible. WVU will fight for this, too. This would make for an East/West split.
The PAC is willing take Texas and three others (excluding religious and military schools, with a strong preference for research universities).
The PAC can live with Kansas, Iowa State, OU, without Texas, but Baylor and TCU fail on religion and TTech, Okie State and KState lack academics, which will only be overlooked with Texas in the mix or if one more is necessary for 16.
The SEC can go FSU and Clemson/GATech or VPI and UNC/NCState, depending on whether they want new states or not. Texas and OU would also be accepted, but Texas is unlikely to go SEC.
The B1G would take Texas and OU, but none of the other Big 12 schools.
The ACC may be the prime target to solidify the eastern seaboard between N/S or B1G/SEC and to force ND's hand.

Assuming the ACC is the sacrificed conference, and UNC/UVA go to the B1G, with VPI and NCState to the SEC, there are still six slots for the Big 12 from FSU, Clemson, GATech, Duke, Wake, Pitt and Syracuse. You can add Louisville and Cincy in the mix, and possibly BYU, however, I'm not convinced that the Big 12 would take them with so many other choices. Duke and Wake are probably dead in the water. WVU would probably fight hard for Syracuse and Pitt, two long time rivals.

This still leaves the PAC with no expansion or choices far below their standards, which is why they may make a move quickly against the Big 12. The B1G, and possibly the SEC, could assist in this by taking 1 or 2 schools each, too. (i.e. UT, OU, TTech and Okie state to the PAC, with Kansas and ISU to the B1G and SEC taking WVU). This is the ACC's best hope.

 

[riskylogic]

Why even have 4? Why do we all assume 16 is the ideal number?

Yep, this is the basic problem. There are no fixed top 64 schools/programs. Change is constant. If there were some sort of promotion/relegation system then maybe it could work. The next best thing is at-large berths. A playoff system with some combination of automatic berths with a few at large spots would do it. D1 college football needs (at least) an 8 team playoff. The rest is just cable subscription BS.

 

[cuseguy]

I said the same thing the other day. I still believe they go 4x16. The B10, SEC and Pac10 aren't going anywhere. What is left of the B12 and ACC will merge for the last 16 regardless of what it is called, ACC, B12, something else.


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If the ACC and Big 12 implode, you'll be left with an open market. Syracuse would be back where it started.

 

[PeteCalvin]

I am going with door #3. I'm not ready to count Swofford out yet. He's got one more hand to play. Let's see what he does.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

How is 18 worse than 16?

In an 18 team conference, you have two 9 team divisions. That's 8 conference games just against your divisional opponents alone, with only 1 conference game against the other side. 9 years to rotate through all the other teams on the other side, 18 years to get everyone at home at least once.

Unless you move to play 10 conference games ... or 11 ... or all 12.

Even a 16 team conference is awkward. Two 8 team divisions. 7 Division games, and 2 cross-divisional games. Now you can play all your cross-divisional opponents in only 4 years, with 8 years to get everyone at home at least once.

The WAC tried a 16 team football league years ago, and it was a failure. Eventually 8 teams got pissed off and formed the MWC.

 

[raf4488]

David Teel ‏@DavidTeelatDP
Weaver continued: "There's nothing happening in regard to Virginia Tech going anywhere. I don't know how to say it any clearer than that."

23m​

David Teel ‏@DavidTeelatDP
More Weaver: "We've always wanted to be in the Atlantic Coast Conference, and we're pleased to be there."



David Teel ‏@DavidTeelatDP
Just spoke w/#Hokies AD Jim Weaver about #SEC: "I just can't believe people are misrepresenting what I said."

 

[cuseguy]

How is 18 worse than 16?

In an 18 team conference, you have two 9 team divisions. That's 8 conference games just against your divisional opponents alone, with only 1 conference game against the other side. 9 years to rotate through all the other teams on the other side, 18 years to get everyone at home at least once.

Unless you move to play 10 conference games ... or 11 ... or all 12.

Even a 16 team conference is awkward. Two 8 team divisions. 7 Division games, and 2 cross-divisional games. Now you can play all your cross-divisional opponents in only 4 years, with 8 years to get everyone at home at least once.

The WAC tried a 16 team football league years ago, and it was a failure. Eventually 8 teams got pissed off and formed the MWC.

These 16 team conferences will last four, five years, schools will get fed up with the enormity and go their separate ways. Ideal size is 12 teams, 14 at most.

 

[Upstate]

He did the most extreme thing of any conference. 50 million to leave. Everyone said ACC is set, impossible for teams to get out. BigTen waved their wads of cash and laughed at that. Swofford got beat. So yeah will need to come up with something else.

It's interesting. Depending on how the Maryland/ACC negotiations go, and if they get really crummy, that makes SU a much more attractive option, since I'd imagine that SU would find a way to TCU it.

 

[raf4488]

Also,

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Still hearing informed talk that #UNC and #UVA are likely top choices for two more #BigTen spots. May have offers -- can't confirm that yet.

This guy runs the 247.com Maryland site and was all over the UMD to the B1G story before ESPN picked it up.

 

[NKR1978]

David Teel ‏@DavidTeelatDP
Weaver continued: "There's nothing happening in regard to Virginia Tech going anywhere. I don't know how to say it any clearer than that."

23m​

David Teel ‏@DavidTeelatDP
More Weaver: "We've always wanted to be in the Atlantic Coast Conference, and we're pleased to be there."



David Teel ‏@DavidTeelatDP
Just spoke w/#Hokies AD Jim Weaver about #SEC: "I just can't believe people are misrepresenting what I said."

I was actually impressed with him with the first quote about his interest in the SEC. Would have been the first time a college AD or president was actually honest about their school's intentions.

 

[kingottoiii]

How is 18 worse than 16?

In an 18 team conference, you have two 9 team divisions. That's 8 conference games just against your divisional opponents alone, with only 1 conference game against the other side. 9 years to rotate through all the other teams on the other side, 18 years to get everyone at home at least once.

Unless you move to play 10 conference games ... or 11 ... or all 12.

Even a 16 team conference is awkward. Two 8 team divisions. 7 Division games, and 2 cross-divisional games. Now you can play all your cross-divisional opponents in only 4 years, with 8 years to get everyone at home at least once.

The WAC tried a 16 team football league years ago, and it was a failure. Eventually 8 teams got pissed off and formed the MWC.

But the old conferences were all 9-10 team leagues. Having an 18/20 team conference really is two separate FB leagues under one umbrella. Isn't that the ideal for rivalries? There would be no need for cross over games. If the original 10 B1G/SEC/P12 teams are on one side why would they care if they never play the other side? What keeps everyone together and happy is a ton of money, something the WAC could not offer. Having 16 schools means some of those B1G/SEC/P12 schools would have to play their old conferences mates less often and instead play teams they have zero history with.

Wouldn't this make a lot of people happy:

P12 Old Division: Wash, WSU, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, Cal, USC, ULCA, ASU, Zona
Do they really need to play Colorado or Utah more than once in 10 years?

B1G Old Division: tOSU, Mich, Neb, Mich St, Wiscy, Iowa, Minny, Illinois, UP, Indiana
Do they really need to play NW, PSU, MD, or RU?

SEC Old Division: Bama, LSU, Fla, Tenn, UGA, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, UK, Vandy
Do they really need to play South Carolina, Arkansas, A&M, or Mizzou?

We would pretty much be going back to the 80s which was when the leagues were better IMO. Everyone played a round robin schedule. IMO 9 or 10 team conferences are the ideal number for the sport. For $ we have seen that the ideal number is >14 and who knows where it stops.

If they keep the playoff to only 4 teams, 3 of which are the conference champions, then schools will be more willing to fill those 2 OOC slots with cross sectional games. Heck you can even freeze out the G5 by having a conference challenge. For instance a P12 school would play one B1G and one SEC school OOC every year. That would take care of all 12 games and leave the G5 schools having crappy SOSs and never make the playoffs.

 

[WickedOrange]

Also,

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Still hearing informed talk that #UNC and #UVA are likely top choices for two more #BigTen spots. May have offers -- can't confirm that yet.

This guy runs the 247.com Maryland site and was all over the UMD to the B1G story before ESPN picked it up.

If Swofford can't hold on to North Carolina that is an epic fail.

 

[cuse522]

But the old conferences were all 9-10 team leagues. Having an 18/20 team conference really is two separate FB leagues under one umbrella. Isn't that the ideal for rivalries? There would be no need for cross over games. If the original 10 B1G/SEC/P12 teams are on one side why would they care if they never play the other side? What keeps everyone together and happy is a ton of money, something the WAC could not offer. Having 16 schools means some of those B1G/SEC/P12 schools would have to play their old conferences mates less often and instead play teams they have zero history with.

Wouldn't this make a lot of people happy:

P12 Old Division: Wash, WSU, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, Cal, USC, ULCA, ASU, Zona
Do they really need to play Colorado or Utah more than once in 10 years?

B1G Old Division: tOSU, Mich, Neb, Mich St, Wiscy, Iowa, Minny, Illinois, UP, Indiana
Do they really need to play NW, PSU, MD, or RU?

SEC Old Division: Bama, LSU, Fla, Tenn, UGA, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, UK, Vandy
Do they really need to play South Carolina, Arkansas, A&M, or Mizzou?

We would pretty much be going back to the 80s which was when the leagues were better IMO. Everyone played a round robin schedule. IMO 9 or 10 team conferences are the ideal number for the sport. For $ we have seen that the ideal number is >14 and who knows where it stops.

If they keep the playoff to only 4 teams, 3 of which are the conference champions, then schools will be more willing to fill those 2 OOC slots with cross sectional games. Heck you can even freeze out the G5 by having a conference challenge. For instance a P12 school would play one B1G and one SEC school OOC every year. That would take care of all 12 games and leave the G5 schools having crappy SOSs and never make the playoffs.

One spin that would be interesting if this happened would be in addition to the conference title game, having the 2, 3, 4, 5, etc all the way on down teams in each division play each other at the end of the year... While also rotating through to get each team once every 8 or 9 years. So if you went to 18 team conferences and nine team divisions, you'd have 10 conference games - your 8 division games, your rotating one game and your end of year game. For the second through fifth place teams in each division it would be almost like a bracket buster game in college hoops, looking to improve/solidify your bowl possibilities.

Of course, none of any of that is particularly likely.