Holy Fluck, this place resembles the bar scene from Gremlins

[Chip]

Wow. Don't ask, don't tell

I was referring to the likely alcohol abuse. But I probably shouldn't have served that up, softball style.

 

[Moontan]

In Barrel's defense, he does a great Barrel in person.

I haven't had that privilege yet... maybe this will be the year.

I haven't met CIL yet (I don't think anyway), but it's certainly on my bucket list.

Probably best not to do that in New Orleans.

 

[Chip]

I'm kind of enjoying the who gets it who doesn't get back and forth. Both are flawed in my opinion.

You can't really compare Marrone's closing of practice, cancelling recruiting presentations, etc. to the University's tailgating situation. Not even in a big picture view. They are completely different things, they are decisions made my completely different people.

I'm sure Marrone and Gross do not like the fact that we're losing tailgating lots. That's the last thing they'd like to see. But the University is obviously about much more than the football team, they need to stay competitive with academic facilities, and those facilities are going to get priority of any space on campus.

You guys could give me the names of 5,000 former season ticket holders who gave them up because of the parking situation and I would still maintain the following. You get a ranked SU team, with an exciting offense containing a couple star quality players, put them against Florida State in the Dome, and the place will get 48k easily.

You take a mediocre SU team, with an average (at best) offense, put them against Maryland, and play in our new South Campus stadium that has parking for one and all right around the stadium, and it will be half full.

My point being that parking, while inconvenient for anywhere from some to many, is not the problem.

It also wouldn't be hard to look back at SU attendance trends and see that the one constant when we drew well wasn't just a good team, it was a good team with star quality on offense, dual threat QBs who you couldn't wait to watch. WRs who stretched the field. While I'm skeptical that our offense is really going to change at all, if it is in fact changing, I bet that was a big part of the conversation. You've recruited more athletic QBs, it's in your best interest to figure out how to start using them, and soon.

End of the day, I think by now Gross gets it on attendance, I doubt he's going to spend too much capital right now on improving gameday for everyone. He put his effort into the ACC, and his hope that Marrone will turn the offense around by the time we get there. That, more than anything else, will have the material impact on our crowd size that they are looking for.

 

[rrlbees]

II'm going to do my best IB impersonation here (maybe with a little Kaiser and Stevenson mixed in). What is wrong with most of you? Half this board wants the campus bulldozed and the hills flattened so they can fit all 25,000 tailgaters into one huge lot, then proceed to the game without having to burn an extra fifty calories or so. Even better, some are concerned that SU is moving it's campus to New York City and they'll never see a home game again.

A select few a so disenfranchised with the schedule they decided to cancel their season tickets and punish those responsible - the players. It's those selfish little bastards that got us into this mess anyway. "Hey, you Ryan Nassib. I'm pissed that you penciled in Stony Brook. My one hundred dollar seat is too expensive to see you play, and my fat ass is too tires to watch the game anyway after climbing all those stairs. Oh yeah, and up yours Wayne Morgan. Those weren't real offers from big time BCS schools. I read Marrone hasn't recruited anyone anyway."

And what balls does Marrone have shutting practice to the four posters on this board that actually attend. Nevermind the fact that we are probable installing a new offense that people clamored for, we need to see how Macky looks in spanx.



In all seriousness, you do realize this year's schedule is a mess due to WVU and TCU bolting at the last second, and it is not a permanent issue. As to the games in NYC, if it's once every five years or so, it's not a big deal. Great road trip, enjoy it! We are going from UConn, Cincinnati, RU to UNC, FSU, Miami, Clemson. You can wait a goddamned year for it.

As to bitching about Friday night games - it's called pto. Take a half day; and if you don't have pto, get a job with benefits.

In going to hand out copies of "who moved my cheese" at the next board tailgate.

I know you're embellishing to get a point across, I do that too, but to be clear nobody asked for the hill to be bulldozed (though I can't wait until we move to South Campus and the Dome becomes academic property). Also, nobody is punishing the players, they are making personal financial decisions.

Someone else mentioned someplace about the big OOC game's being played in NJ only every 5 years. It's actually just less than ever 2 years. The exact years are 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016 (4 of the next 5 years), along with every other year starting in 2019 for the next 20 years. Hopefully that contract can be broken at some point.

 

[ImperialOrange]

A select few a so disenfranchised with the schedule they decided to cancel their season tickets and punish those responsible - the players. It's those selfish little bastards that got us into this mess anyway. "Hey, you Ryan Nassib. I'm pissed that you penciled in Stony Brook. My one hundred dollar seat is too expensive to see you play, and my fat ass is too tires to watch the game anyway after climbing all those stairs. Oh yeah, and up yours Wayne Morgan. Those weren't real offers from big time BCS schools. I read Marrone hasn't recruited anyone anyway."

I read those posts and see this

I want an Oompa Loompa now!

 

[Marsh01]

I'm kind of enjoying the who gets it who doesn't get back and forth. Both are flawed in my opinion.

You can't really compare Marrone's closing of practice, cancelling recruiting presentations, etc. to the University's tailgating situation. Not even in a big picture view. They are completely different things, they are decisions made my completely different people.

I'm sure Marrone and Gross do not like the fact that we're losing tailgating lots. That's the last thing they'd like to see. But the University is obviously about much more than the football team, they need to stay competitive with academic facilities, and those facilities are going to get priority of any space on campus.

You guys could give me the names of 5,000 former season ticket holders who gave them up because of the parking situation and I would still maintain the following. You get a ranked SU team, with an exciting offense containing a couple star quality players, put them against Florida State in the Dome, and the place will get 48k easily.

You take a mediocre SU team, with an average (at best) offense, put them against Maryland, and play in our new South Campus stadium that has parking for one and all right around the stadium, and it will be half full.

My point being that parking, while inconvenient for anywhere from some to many, is not the problem.

It also wouldn't be hard to look back at SU attendance trends and see that the one constant when we drew well wasn't just a good team, it was a good team with star quality on offense, dual threat QBs who you couldn't wait to watch. WRs who stretched the field. While I'm skeptical that our offense is really going to change at all, if it is in fact changing, I bet that was a big part of the conversation. You've recruited more athletic QBs, it's in your best interest to figure out how to start using them, and soon.

End of the day, I think by now Gross gets it on attendance, I doubt he's going to spend too much capital right now on improving gameday for everyone. He put his effort into the ACC, and his hope that Marrone will turn the offense around by the time we get there. That, more than anything else, will have the material impact on our crowd size that they are looking for.

I still say that it is different than 20 years ago. I am 41 and growing up going to games where we had a full house was great. You know how many of my friends and their parents have since moved out of the Syracuse area since HS that used to be either season ticket holders or would go to most games? I probably could rattle off 15-20 people. Times that by everyone who knows 15-20 people. I just think the "diehard fans" are so few and far between now as opposed to back in the 1980's.

Its different for basketball. Zero to do in the winter and hoops gets a lot of us through the winter and makes you actually want to leave your house 1-2 times a week. The attitude with football has been, its too nice out to go to the game, I have something else I would rather do and will just watch it on tv, id rather stay home and watch it in high def, etc etc etc.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I still say that it is different than 20 years ago. I am 41 and growing up going to games where we had a full house was great. You know how many of my friends and their parents have since moved out of the Syracuse area since HS that used to be either season ticket holders or would go to most games? I probably could rattle off 15-20 people. Times that by everyone who knows 15-20 people. I just think the "diehard fans" are so few and far between now as opposed to back in the 1980's.

Its different for basketball. Zero to do in the winter and hoops gets a lot of us through the winter and makes you actually want to leave your house 1-2 times a week. The attitude with football has been, its too nice out to go to the game, I have something else I would rather do and will just watch it on tv, id rather stay home and watch it in high def, etc etc etc.

I think your post hit the nail on the head, the diehard fanbase has been shrinking slowly since the Coach P and get a life days and save for maybe two years ago when we had a good year on the road its getting smaller and smaller each year. The reasons are numerous - people moving out of the area, atrrition through death/old age, starting families, and in some cases people have just giving up for whatever reason and would rather watch the game from home. Theres a % of the fan base thats not coming back to the dome no matter what the record where the dome is or even if Chip and CIL picked them up personally in a limo.

I know Chip feels that if we can get a good offense and a competitive team on the field we can draw 48K for the FSU's of the world. Maybe if we can sustain a couple years of success but right now I dont see how were going to get that many locals out, we havent come close to 48K in nearly two decades.

 

[Rocco]

The attitude with football has been, its too nice out to go to the game, I have something else I would rather do and will just watch it on tv, id rather stay home and watch it in high def, etc etc etc.

Spot on. The all-time best excuse came from a poster on this board saying she had to rake the leaves. Give me a freaking break. You really aren't a fan if raking the leaves takes higher priority than watching SU football.

 

[Marsh01]

I think your post hit the nail on the head, the diehard fanbase has been shrinking slowly since the Coach P and get a life days and save for maybe two years ago when we had a good year on the road its getting smaller and smaller each year. The reasons are numerous - people moving out of the area, atrrition through death/old age, starting families, and in some cases people have just giving up for whatever reason and would rather watch the game from home. Theres a % of the fan base thats not coming back to the dome no matter what the record where the dome is or even if Chip and CIL picked them up personally in a limo.

I know Chip feels that if we can get a good offense and a competitive team on the field we can draw 48K for the FSU's of the world. Maybe if we can sustain a couple years of success but right now I dont see how were going to get that many locals out, we havent come close to 48K in nearly two decades.

It is the reason. Noone wants to admit it (for some reason) but what you stated above is a huge reason why attendance is down. There were WAAAY more football diehards when I was growing up than there is now. Not even close.

I have said this before. When we start playing "new" teams like Fla st, Clemson, Virginia, Wake, NIT St, etc people will come out because its different. People love different. Come up and watch Pitt? Meh, I'd rather stay home. Come up and watch Clemson? Hell yes, we have never played them. It will get better and I am hoping that coupled with some success on the field can keep that momentum going forward.

 

[xc84]

I still say that it is different than 20 years ago. I am 41 and growing up going to games where we had a full house was great. You know how many of my friends and their parents have since moved out of the Syracuse area since HS that used to be either season ticket holders or would go to most games? I probably could rattle off 15-20 people. Times that by everyone who knows 15-20 people. I just think the "diehard fans" are so few and far between now as opposed to back in the 1980's.

Its different for basketball. Zero to do in the winter and hoops gets a lot of us through the winter and makes you actually want to leave your house 1-2 times a week. The attitude with football has been, its too nice out to go to the game, I have something else I would rather do and will just watch it on tv, id rather stay home and watch it in high def, etc etc etc.

You're referring to when SU has winning football records regularly. When that happens again, attendance will increase. I suspect the difference for hoops is they have not had a really bad stretch in 35 years.

 

[suloyalfan]

SU has very few fans. Mostly, they are consumers. If you don't understand the difference, you are probably a consumer.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk

Just win, baby. The "fringe" consumers show up when the team is winning and it's convenient for them... the rest (us, the diehards) are there whenever possible and go out of our way to make it to games and events.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Spot on. The all-time best excuse came from a poster on this board saying she had to rake the leaves. Give me a freaking break. You really aren't a fan if raking the leaves takes higher priority than watching SU football.

I have heard them all the Fair, Apple Picking, Applefest, trying to squeeze in vacations during the last of the warm weather, Noon start, I could go on for hours.

 

[TexanMark]

It is the reason. Noone wants to admit it (for some reason) but what you stated above is a huge reason why attendance is down. There were WAAAY more football diehards when I was growing up than there is now. Not even close.

I have said this before. When we start playing "new" teams like Fla st, Clemson, Virginia, Wake, NIT St, etc people will come out because its different. People love different. Come up and watch Pitt? Meh, I'd rather stay home. Come up and watch Clemson? Hell yes, we have never played them. It will get better and I am hoping that coupled with some success on the field can keep that momentum going forward.

Agreed...One way to help is creative efforts to get more fans here...With high gas prices SU could set up some fan buses from Eastview Mall, Marketplace in Rochester and several other cities like Watertown, Utica and Binghamton.

 

[Marsh01]

You're referring to when SU has winning football records regularly. When that happens again, attendance will increase. I suspect the difference for hoops is they have not had a really bad stretch in 35 years.

True but there are more excuses in the fall than there are in the winter as to why not attend a game. Weather was too nice, I had plans to go to applefest, we went to the fair, we travel in the fall. I know a lit of people who just want to stay home and watch it on TV. Stop televising the games locally and attendence will certainly go up.

 

[Marsh01]

I have heard them all the Fair, Apple Picking, Applefest, trying to squeeze in vacations during the last of the warm weather, Noon start, I could go on for hours.

LOL I just posted the same thing

 

[Chip]

I think your post hit the nail on the head, the diehard fanbase has been shrinking slowly since the Coach P and get a life days and save for maybe two years ago when we had a good year on the road its getting smaller and smaller each year. The reasons are numerous - people moving out of the area, atrrition through death/old age, starting families, and in some cases people have just giving up for whatever reason and would rather watch the game from home. Theres a % of the fan base thats not coming back to the dome no matter what the record where the dome is or even if Chip and CIL picked them up personally in a limo.

I know Chip feels that if we can get a good offense and a competitive team on the field we can draw 48K for the FSU's of the world. Maybe if we can sustain a couple years of success but right now I dont see how were going to get that many locals out, we havent come close to 48K in nearly two decades.

We had 48k for the Minnesota game in Marrone's debut. That was a pretty legit # too, having been there. Granted, they gave tix away, but still, people were in the building and it certainly wasn't the dozen Minnesota fans that got us there (insert point about away teams in the ACC helping crowd size some weeks...).

I think the biggest problem to getting the band back together on those former crowds is the pricing variance for premium vs food stamp or other spots. But doesn't seem to be an issue in hoops. If it's determined to be broken, as I suspect, it's fixable.

I know Syracuse, and the surrounding area, isn't exactly booming these days. But you guys are acting like it's Sandusky, OH after the Callahan factory shut down, as soon as you older guys move on, the city ceases to exist. It's not that bad, the entire CNY area has enough younger people that will go if we are a relevant and exciting team, playing in a relevant league, against relevant opponents. Hopefully our play on the field improves to the point that I can be proven right.

The only season since 1998 that we've really played to a level that SU fans would want is 2001 (talking offense alone, nothing since 1998). Crowds were ok to good that year, especially later in the season. That year also started off with us being 0-2, which can be a death blow in this particular sport.

 

[JeremyCuse]

We had 48k for the Minnesota game in Marrone's debut. That was a pretty legit # too, having been there. Granted, they gave tix away, but still, people were in the building and it certainly wasn't the dozen Minnesota fans that got us there (insert point about away teams in the ACC helping crowd size some weeks...).

I think the biggest problem to getting the band back together on those former crowds is the pricing variance for premium vs food stamp or other spots. But doesn't seem to be an issue in hoops. If it's determined to be broken, as I suspect, it's fixable.

I know Syracuse, and the surrounding area, isn't exactly booming these days. But you guys are acting like it's Sandusky, OH after the Callahan factory shut down, as soon as you older guys move on, the city ceases to exist. It's not that bad, the entire CNY area has enough younger people that will go if we are a relevant and exciting team, playing in a relevant league, against relevant opponents. Hopefully our play on the field improves to the point that I can be proven right.

The only season since 1998 that we've really played to a level that SU fans would want is 2001 (talking offense alone, nothing since 1998). Crowds were ok to good that year, especially later in the season. That year also started off with us being 0-2, which can be a death blow in this particular sport.

I agree with your post especially the price point for premium and the fact that Syracuse is not as economically depressed as people make it out to be. Despite the loss of numerous big factories there are still a lot of employment opportunities in Syracuse. However, I think you overestimate younger people flocking to the dome if SU suddenly started playing better. The truth is for most younger people and those in there 20's SU football is not even an afterthought at this point it simply doesnt register on their radars. Most of them have no idea who SU is playing week to week and dont really follow the program. Theres a much better chance of SU getting back those middle aged fans who have left the program then getting the younger crowd.

 

[Chip]

I agree with your post especially the price point for premium and the fact that Syracuse is not as economically depressed as people make it out to be. Despite the loss of numerous big factories there are still a lot of employment opportunities in Syracuse. However, I think you overestimate younger people flocking to the dome if SU suddenly started playing better. The truth is for most younger people and those in there 20's SU football is not even an afterthought at this point it simply doesnt register on their radars. Most of them have no idea who SU is playing week to week and dont really follow the program. Theres a much better chance of SU getting back those middle aged fans who have left the program then getting the younger crowd.

I agree that right now, there wouldn't be 20 somethings knocking down the doors of the Dome to get into a football game. It's been a depressed product for quite some time, 2010's bowl year notwithstanding.

But those same people flock to the Dome for a hoops game. That's the important part. And my whole point, football used to be as relevant nationally as basketball was. And that's the biggest fix of all. If it were to happen, they will show up at games.

If we continue to be a battle with Rutgers and UConn for ok recruits and play at an ok level with the offense scoring 20 and we win by 2, then nothing Gross or Marrone or the academic decision makers at SU decide to do as a fan friendly initiative will make enough of an impact on crowd size. A stadium on south campus wouldn't be a fix (maybe a pop for the first couple games), Marrone spending every free minute at meet & greets, all practices open to the public, tailgating parties on the Quead, none of it matters. At least not in a material crowd size increase type of way.

ACC without RU and UConn was a big step to getting us back. The rest is on Marrone. This vehicle can lead to more $ for the program, access to better recruits, get back to the advantages we used to have, advantages that made us a nationally relevant program. If we fix it, they will come.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I agree that right now, there wouldn't be 20 somethings knocking down the doors of the Dome to get into a football game. It's been a depressed product for quite some time, 2010's bowl year notwithstanding.

But those same people flock to the Dome for a hoops game. That's the important part. And my whole point, football used to be as relevant nationally as basketball was. And that's the biggest fix of all. If it were to happen, they will show up at games.

If we continue to be a battle with Rutgers and UConn for ok recruits and play at an ok level with the offense scoring 20 and we win by 2, then nothing Gross or Marrone or the academic decision makers at SU decide to do as a fan friendly initiative will make enough of an impact on crowd size. A stadium on south campus wouldn't be a fix (maybe a pop for the first couple games), Marrone spending every free minute at meet & greets, all practices open to the public, tailgating parties on the Quead, none of it matters. At least not in a material crowd size increase type of way.

ACC without RU and UConn was a big step to getting us back. The rest is on Marrone. This vehicle can lead to more $ for the program, access to better recruits, get back to the advantages we used to have, advantages that made us a nationally relevant program. If we fix it, they will come.

I think you maybe confusing the overall fan base's love affair with basketball versus younger people. Basketball brings in all age demographic but espcially thos middle aged fans and those with families. Save for the college kids theres no big % of young people in Syracuse attending basketball games not that I have seen anyway. A rise in the fball program is going to get those fans who either left the fball program years ago or who somehow just follow basketball to stand up and take notice. There are plenty of posters on the bball board who simply dont follow the fball team, getting them to go to games and take notice would be a big help. Unfortunately I think theres a lost age group of younger fans that probably is never going to come out in big numbers for SU fball no matter what. Again I dont think its a matter of wins and losses a lot of them just dont care period. At best a resurgent SU team might get them to one game year but SU needs fresh season ticket holders and fans willing to get parkign passes and donate. That age group is not the answer trust me.

 

[OttoMets]

I agree with your post especially the price point for premium and the fact that Syracuse is not as economically depressed as people make it out to be. Despite the loss of numerous big factories there are still a lot of employment opportunities in Syracuse. However, I think you overestimate younger people flocking to the dome if SU suddenly started playing better. The truth is for most younger people and those in there 20's SU football is not even an afterthought at this point it simply doesnt register on their radars. Most of them have no idea who SU is playing week to week and dont really follow the program. Theres a much better chance of SU getting back those middle aged fans who have left the program then getting the younger crowd.

This is a pair of good points. First, the idea that Central New York is some depressed ghost town is silly. Unemployment is low; Syracuse routinely appears on lists of successful cities. Second, going after the younger crowd should be a priority. There's been a sea change in demographics up here as the area transitioned away from a manufacturing economy; most diehard football fans are either old or living in the Carolinas. SU's got to do something to get the football team on young people's radar and make it an integral part of the local social scene.

Additionally - you didn't touch on this, but it's a fairly common theme - the traffic/lust for a Skytop stadium as a panacea thing is pretty ridiculous. First, as most note, traffic and parking aren't difficult for those who aren't horrified by a 15-minute walk on city streets. Second, there's going to be some delay associated with any attraction that draws 40,000 people - we're not talking about pulling up to your local Wal-Mart.

Build that new South Campus stadium (with several hundred million dollars of currently non-existent money). How're people going to get there? Mass transit? Doubt it - people don't like that option for the Dome; can't see that changing with a new facility. Pedestrian access? No - it's way farther removed from the urban core and pedestrian infrastructure than the current building. Cars? I guess that's all that's left. But they won't be coming from the west; there's a neighborhood there, with no through streets. Won't be coming from the east; Drumlins is there. Perhaps the state will spend tens of millions of dollars to build an I-481 interchange (taxpayers would find that an odd spending decision, since Syracuse already has a perfectly adequate and accessible stadium that is served by public streets).

So 40,000 people can drive their cars to a new facility served by Skytop Road (and the narrow city streets it connects to) and a single-point interchange to the south, all to park in a large surface lot and still walk about 10 minutes to get into the building. And then they'll sit in traffic as they wait to leave from those two exits, damning Syracuse University and swearing to never return to that horrid, inaccessible stadium. Sounds familiar.

 

[Cadillac]

A lot of these "issues" are going to be cleared up when I hit the Mega tomorrow.

T. Boone Cadillac Indoor Practice Facility, here we come.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Nice post.. I am bringing him along slowly.. Must be the CBA background and a thirst for grey goose