Honestly, the more I thought about it

[IthacaBarrel]

We get what we put in and what we pay for. Bush league financial commitment, hire on the cheap, hc and assistants, struggle to get adequate facilities, struggle to create buzz, when we do create any the program quickly lays a turd and let's the air out, has happened for years. Attendance continues to get worse and we are down to just the die hards. The run at the end of 2012 was about as good as it gets but even earlier in that year people thought Hackett and Marrone needed to be canned.

It has to start with the university and a much larger showing of commitment and a major fund raisng effort done by professionals. Money is the only answer. I will be watching, I like shafer a lot but what we are seeing now isn't worth the cost of donations and preferred A. It's a joke for the consumer.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Ditto

 

[longislandcuse]

Since football and basketball got us into the ACC and made us "X amount of money" as a university, that "X amount of money" should go to football and basketball only.

Ok, maybe a little overkill but I'm shocked that a school of our magnitude and history refuses to put the money needed into football to compete with the big boys.

How much money is Michigan losing on their football program by running it with a budget? You get what you put in and since CFB is big business, like any business, you need to spend money to make money.

 

[1orange]

We get what we put in and what we pay for. Bush league financial commitment, hire on the cheap, hc and assistants, struggle to get adequate facilities, struggle to create buzz, when we do create any the program quickly lays a turd and let's the air out, has happened for years. Attendance continues to get worse and we are down to just the die hards. The run at the end of 2012 was about as good as it gets but even earlier in that year people thought Hackett and Marrone needed to be canned.

It has to start with the university and a much larger showing of commitment and a major fund raisng effort done by professionals. Money is the only answer. I will be watching, I like shafer a lot but what we are seeing now isn't worth the cost of donations and preferred A. It's a joke for the consumer.

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Since football and basketball got us into the ACC and made us "X amount of money" as a university, that "X amount of money" should go to football and basketball only.

Ok, maybe a little overkill but I'm shocked that a school of our magnitude and history refuses to put the money needed into football to compete with the big boys.

How much money is Michigan losing on their football program by running it with a budget? You get what you put in and since CFB is big business, like any business, you need to spend money to make money.

They need to give Shafer an opportunity to go out and find a real OC, go pay for an up and comer from a small program, go get a crusty guy like a Jeff Tedford who will surely be looking for a job after this year. Just somebody proven. I like Shafer and he's isn't going anywhere soon but he needs less cool guys with bucket hats more crusty old guys with a tin of skoal and polyester coaching shorts. The good ones do it, much like belotti did when he went out and found chip Kelly. He needed help.

More guys like anselmo and rob Moore to be blunt. If he needs to take more charge of the defense than so be it but he needs a legit OC with experience.

 

[Millhouse]

We get what we put in and what we pay for. Bush league financial commitment, hire on the cheap, hc and assistants, struggle to get adequate facilities, struggle to create buzz, when we do create any the program quickly lays a turd and let's the air out, has happened for years. Attendance continues to get worse and we are down to just the die hards. The run at the end of 2012 was about as good as it gets but even earlier in that year people thought Hackett and Marrone needed to be canned. It has to start with the university and a much larger showing of commitment and a major fund raisng effort done by professionals. Money is the only answer. I will be watching, I like shafer a lot but what we are seeing now isn't worth the cost of donations and preferred A. It's a joke for the consumer.

The dome and boeheim have kept football alive. We would really be kaput without the giant basketball money. It cannibalizes football attendance some but it's still overwhelmingly good for football

There is low hanging offensive fruit that doesn't require much money but not as much as there was in 2000

 

[Forza Azzurri]

We get what we put in and what we pay for. Bush league financial commitment, hire on the cheap, hc and assistants, struggle to get adequate facilities, struggle to create buzz, when we do create any the program quickly lays a turd and let's the air out, has happened for years. Attendance continues to get worse and we are down to just the die hards. The run at the end of 2012 was about as good as it gets but even earlier in that year people thought Hackett and Marrone needed to be canned.

It has to start with the university and a much larger showing of commitment and a major fund raisng effort done by professionals. Money is the only answer. I will be watching, I like shafer a lot but what we are seeing now isn't worth the cost of donations and preferred A. It's a joke for the consumer.

Uh, yeah. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

College football is business. Big business. Huge business.

The more money you have, the better off you are. It doesn't guarantee success but it really helps.

More money generally means better facilities and better coaches which generally means better players.

If you don't have money, you better have ingenuity: Jobs, Gates & Zuckerberg from the outside world; Meyer and Spurrier from the football world.

If you don't have either, chances are you have mediocre talent and average to bad coaching and that is never a recipe for success.

BTW, although some of dipsh!ts on the hoops board refuse to acknowledge it, we absolutely caught lightning in a bottle with Boeheim.

 

[Stern]

They need to give Shafer an opportunity to go out and find a real OC, go pay for an up and comer from a small program, go get a crusty guy like a Jeff Tedford who will surely be looking for a job after this year. .

Tedford has taken a 2nd leave of absence from his OC job due to health issues. I don't think his health is very well at all. I agree with your larger point overall, just Tedford isn't the guy right now.

 

[Alsacs]

This is a fair well throughout opinion. If Shafer had better assistants he would likely do a better job. The University/AD needs to make the financial commitment to football. Sometimes it is smarter to take a short term financial loss to have a chance for long term gains. The university needs to be okay with that for football to get the facilities, coaches it needs to right the ship.
I just think if you watch the Shafer press conference it just reeked of GRob. We fans always wanted a coach who wouldn't want Syracuse FB job as a stepping stone job but right now that is the type of coach we need.

 

[O-pulse]

I agree, if we wish to compete in the ACC the university must recognize that it can't be done on the cheap. We need to have assistant salaries that will draw an OC with a proven ability to create an offense that will be productive against the D's in the ACC.
That individuals must be able to run a O the utilizes our existing players effectively while he recruits the upgrades he may need for his favored schemes.
CGM has yet to demonstrate he is that person. If things continue as they have so far we will not be in place to attract te types of studs we need to move up in the ACC because we will be taking a step backward with our win-loss record that might help us to become a more viable threat in ACC football. It's put up or shut up time.

 

[rrlbees]

They need to give Shafer an opportunity to go out and find a real OC, go pay for an up and comer from a small program, go get a crusty guy like a Jeff Tedford who will surely be looking for a job after this year. Just somebody proven. I like Shafer and he's isn't going anywhere soon but he needs less cool guys with bucket hats more crusty old guys with a tin of skoal and polyester coaching shorts. The good ones do it, much like belotti did when he went out and found chip Kelly. He needed help. More guys like anselmo and rob Moore to be blunt. If he needs to take more charge of the defense than so be it but he needs a legit OC with experience.

A real OC? Cool guy is the one Shafer wanted.

 

[Stern]

I just think if you watch the Shafer press conference it just reeked of GRob. We fans always wanted a coach who wouldn't want Syracuse FB job as a stepping stone job but right now that is the type of coach we need.

Matt Campbell of Toledo. He is 34 years old, has eyes on a big SEC job or an NFL job someday. Hire him here, its a step up for him now and the natural progression in his career. He is affordable for what SU pays. He can see how coaching here got Doug an NFL head coaching job. If he stays 6 or 7 years and does well I will pack his bags and throw him a going away party for when he does get that next big job offer.

That's the type of guy SU needs. Someone young, who thinks outside the box, someone who is up to date with today's college football landscape (especially with the offensive side of the ball) in this era, someone who can relate to recruits well (rivals named him a"TOP RECRUITER" in 2011) , and someone who will want to turn this program around to advance his own career...which by the way isn't a bad thing!

 

[Millhouse]

A real OC? Cool guy is the one Shafer wanted.

So many guys make the mistake of putting the band back togethet

 

[RF2044]

We get what we put in and what we pay for. Bush league financial commitment, hire on the cheap, hc and assistants, struggle to get adequate facilities, struggle to create buzz, when we do create any the program quickly lays a turd and let's the air out, has happened for years. Attendance continues to get worse and we are down to just the die hards. The run at the end of 2012 was about as good as it gets but even earlier in that year people thought Hackett and Marrone needed to be canned.

It has to start with the university and a much larger showing of commitment and a major fund raisng effort done by professionals. Money is the only answer. I will be watching, I like shafer a lot but what we are seeing now isn't worth the cost of donations and preferred A. It's a joke for the consumer.

Great post, IB. It was undoubtedly a factor in 2012, when Marrone left, that $$$ was tight and we hired on the cheap. That was the econonmc reality of our association with the BE.

I'm not suggesting that we're rolling in dough now, but the exponential increase in conference revenue we have now should enable to athletic department to open the coffers a bit. I'm not suggesting that they go out and hire a $5M/year coach, but they shouldn't have to have the lowest payroll in the conference, either.

Ultimately, you get what you pay for to a large degree--as you point out.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I agree, if we wish to compete in the ACC the university must recognize that it can't be done on the cheap. We need to have assistant salaries that will draw an OC with a proven ability to create an offense that will be productive against the D's in the ACC.
That individuals must be able to run a O the utilizes our existing players effectively while he recruits the upgrades he may need for his favored schemes.
CGM has yet to demonstrate he is that person. If things continue as they have so far we will not be in place to attract te types of studs we need to move up in the ACC because we will be taking a step backward with our win-loss record that might help us to become a more viable threat in ACC football. It's put up or shut up time.

So easy to say but you actually have to have the resources to do so.

Foe the big state schools and ND, it means tapping into the huge donor bases that are able, and wiling, to donate prolifically to the program.

It is unclear to me if SU has that donor base or not. I would tend to think not.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

A real OC? Cool guy is the one Shafer wanted.

He made a mistake, correct it and move on. Should we waterboard him for it or just hope he makes the correction. I also don't like that he is doubling as our wr coach

 

[O-pulse]

If we aren't going to find a way to pay quality coaches than what are we doing in the ACC; how does it sever us to be a perennial bottom feeder? Take some of that increased payout from the ACC and hire a quality OC.

 

[chakka3421]

Uh, yeah. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

College football is business. Big business. Huge business.

The more money you have, the better off you are. It doesn't guarantee success but it really helps.

More money generally means better facilities and better coaches which generally means better players.

If you don't have money, you better have ingenuity: Jobs, Gates & Zuckerberg from the outside world; Meyer and Spurrier from the football world.

If you don't have either, chances are you have mediocre talent and average to bad coaching and that is never a recipe for success.

BTW, although some of dipsh!ts on the hoops board refuse to acknowledge it, we absolutely caught lightning in a bottle with Boeheim.

Much of the reason we are in the ACC has to do with JB both directly & indirectly. However, JB will not always be there.

The long and short of it is to not put all of your eggs in one basket. The 2 sports that generate the majority of the money to fund all of this is Football & Basketball. That's the focus but unfortunately not at SU with Cantor and Gross.

It starts at the top. We have a new Chancellor and what I'm hearing is that he is very dollars & cents but entertains & cultivates big donors so he understands it's not all about cost. No more frivlious spending anymore that's causing chaos up on the hill (hiring & wage freezes).

However, I think Syverud gets it (hopeful). He ok'd the IPF and its being built. He's cultivating major donors and is mandating change at SUAD especially on the income side (redo of IMG contract). He may be doing more in a MAJOR way that another poster on this Board is hot on the trail.

The next change is the AD. Syverud & Gross are like matter vs anti-matter. Something will happen here first before any FB coaching changes based upon what LITTLE I can gather these days (very tight lipped at SUAD right now).

My only concern is the type of AD we get - Revenue based relationship building or a Cost cutting based accountant. Syverud is both hopefully that translates into a high powered AD with great leadership & relationship skills. AND and AD that has proven he can hire quality FB head coach and eventually BBall coach when JB retires.

 

[javadoc]

Does anyone here have an informed, preferably first- or second-hand sense of what the new Chancellor's thinking is?

We've been trying to recruit for years with sub-par facilities. You have to figure that the recent improvements, and the new IPF, will give a boost to recruiting. That was an expenditure that had to happen, and thank goodness it did.

If I knew that McDonald was going to learn a lot and make great strides next year, I would say take the lumps and deal with it. But if Edouard doesn't make it here in January, what is there to look forward to? Think about that for a second. In any event, I'll be watching what McDonald does in recruiting at his next gig, because I think it will show some folks here how difficult it is to recruit at Syracuse. Ed Orgeron was here during McNabb's first 3 years, and he said (paraphrasing) that he learned to recruit while at Syracuse, because it was hard - nothing was a gimme.

My concern is that there isn't the will to go big time, and the IPF will be regarded as a heavy burden that constrains all other spending. So we'll continue to be cheap on coaches until the IPF is paid off.

 

[oldpinepoint]

He may be doing more in a MAJOR way that another poster on this Board is hot on the trail.

can you expand on this????!

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Does anyone here have an informed, preferably first- or second-hand sense of what the new Chancellor's thinking is?

We've been trying to recruit for years with sub-par facilities. You have to figure that the recent improvements, and the new IPF, will give a boost to recruiting. That was an expenditure that had to happen, and thank goodness it did.

If I knew that McDonald was going to learn a lot and make great strides next year, I would say take the lumps and deal with it. But if Edouard doesn't make it here in January, what is there to look forward to? Think about that for a second. In any event, I'll be watching what McDonald does in recruiting at his next gig, because I think it will show some folks here how difficult it is to recruit at Syracuse. Ed Orgeron was here during McNabb's first 3 years, and he said (paraphrasing) that he learned to recruit while at Syracuse, because it was hard - nothing was a gimme.

My concern is that there isn't the will to go big time, and the IPF will be regarded as a heavy burden that constrains all other spending. So we'll continue to be cheap on coaches until the IPF is paid off.

It's very hard to recruit at syracuse thinking otherwise is burying ones head in the sand. Gmc is an excellent recruiter, there isn't a guy in the us that would bring a steady flow of 4 and 5 star kids into syracuse. It won't happen.

 

[rrlbees]

He made a mistake, correct it and move on. Should we waterboard him for it or just hope he makes the correction. I also don't like that he is doubling as our wr coach

He may have made a mistake but I was speaking in the context that we need to pay the money and allow Shafer to get a real OC. He got the one he wanted. Mistake or not.

 

[rrlbees]

Great post, IB. It was undoubtedly a factor in 2012, when Marrone left, that $$$ was tight and we hired on the cheap. That was the econonmc reality of our association with the BE. I'm not suggesting that we're rolling in dough now, but the exponential increase in conference revenue we have now should enable to athletic department to open the coffers a bit. I'm not suggesting that they go out and hire a $5M/year coach, but they shouldn't have to have the lowest payroll in the conference, either. Ultimately, you get what you pay for to a large degree--as you point out.

We are paying Shafer about the same Marrone was being paid the year he left. If Marrone had stayed he was getting a pay bump.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

He may have made a mistake but I was speaking in the context that we need to pay the money and allow Shafer to get a real OC. He got the one he wanted. Mistake or not.

I thought gmc was choice #2, curious who #1 would have been

 

[rrlbees]

I thought gmc was choice #2, curious who #1 would have been

If he was #2 then I have no idea either who was #1.