Hopkins, the zone and the future

[Jack Hall]

I think they recruit players. I've already mentioned Cooney. McCroskey, GMac, Hart, Andy Rautins, Flynn, Harris, AO, Scoop, Dion, Ricky Jackson are all somewhat recent players who don't fit the "recruiting for zone" argument. And that's just off the top of my head.

Dion is 65, cooney goes 6 4, AR was 64, hart was long and quick for a pg. they were are great for our system IMO...the zone was pretty darned good the yr Arinze, Rick, Scoop , and Andy played together in 2010. Number one in the country, one seed. Great job by the coaches putting together that team, great get in Wes. Perfect for the zone IMO....

 

[Orange Barrel]

Dion is 65, cooney goes 6 4, AR was 64, hart was long and quick for a pg. they were are great for our system IMO...the zone was pretty darned good the yr Arinze, Rick, Scoop , and Andy played together in 2010. Number one in the country, one seed. Great job by the coaches putting together that team, great get in Wes. Perfect for the zone IMO....

Not saying they weren't good for the system or good players, but if you think any of those guys you mentioned were recruited for the zone then I want some of what you're smoking today. When did Cooney become 6'4"? When did Dion become 6'5"? Andy became a great defender at the top of the zone. He was recruited for his shooting ability. Hart was an excellent on the ball defender. It had little or nothing to do with the zone.

 

[Jack Hall]

Not saying they weren't good for the system or good players, but if you think any of those guys you mentioned were recruited for the zone then I want some of what you're smoking today. When did Cooney become 6'4"? When did Dion become 6'5"? Andy became a great defender at the top of the zone. He was recruited for his shooting ability. Hart was an excellent on the ball defender. It had little or nothing to do with the zone.

But you just said they were good for the system. Just my opinion but I don't think it was pure luck on the coaches part. I'm w tiny man on this one

 

[Jack Hall]

Not saying they weren't good for the system or good players, but if you think any of those guys you mentioned were recruited for the zone then I want some of what you're smoking today. When did Cooney become 6'4"? When did Dion become 6'5"? Andy became a great defender at the top of the zone. He was recruited for his shooting ability. Hart was an excellent on the ball defender. It had little or nothing to do with the zone.

But I also agree w you, we recruit guys that can play first and foremost but no question in my mind they are very conscious of JBs zone when they recruit. Would be crazy not to IMO...

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Can't argue w that but what I see is that the zone has gotten much better since the early 90s. Part is because JB has become the recognized guru on zones since Cheney retired and part IMO because the coAching staff has better recruited for JBS defense. Would make sense if it's the only defense you play...no?

Since the 90's?? Did you miss the Flynn, Harris, Devendorf defensive disasters?

IMO the recent squads, since 2010, are when the D got significantly and for two main reasons. One, they now really try. It seemed since A Rautins day there has been a focused effort on playing this D. It is not a resting place anymore.

The second related reason is we seem deeper. And JB seems to feel we are deeper. Play D or get benched. This seems a change. A player the caliber of Dion wouldn't have ridden pine in the old days, no matter how pathetic his D was. Now that atitude won't fly.

But if JB can get a top 5 player he will take him, zone fit or not - see most recently DC2.

 

[Jack Hall]

Since the 90's?? Did you miss the Flynn, Harris, Devendorf defensive disasters?

IMO the recent squads, since 2010, are when the D got significantly and for two main reasons. One, they now really try. It seemed since A Rautins day there has been a focused effort on playing this D. It is not a resting place anymore.

The second related reason is we seem deeper. And JB seems to feel we are deeper. Play D or get benched. This seems a change. A player the caliber of Dion wouldn't have ridden pine in the old days, no matter how pathetic his D was. Now that atitude won't fly.

But if JB can get a top 5 player he will take him, zone fit or not - see most recently DC2.

I agree on AR, he fully bought into JBs zone system IMO. He set a great example

 

[Jack Hall]

Since the 90's?? Did you miss the Flynn, Harris, Devendorf defensive disasters?

IMO the recent squads, since 2010, are when the D got significantly and for two main reasons. One, they now really try. It seemed since A Rautins day there has been a focused effort on playing this D. It is not a resting place anymore.

The second related reason is we seem deeper. And JB seems to feel we are deeper. Play D or get benched. This seems a change. A player the caliber of Dion wouldn't have ridden pine in the old days, no matter how pathetic his D was. Now that atitude won't fly.

But if JB can get a top 5 player he will take him, zone fit or not - see most recently DC2.

And we were not horrible in 2009, sweet 16...not a disaster...

 

[Sgt Cuse]

And we were not horrible in 2009, sweet 16...not a disaster...

I thought we were talking about the defense. We weren't horrible because Flynn was an explosive offensive player. And that is the point. As recently as 2009 we had players like Flynn, Devendorf and Harris - all of whom were recruited with no regard to the zone.

And it really hasn't stopped because the zone D had no influence on recruiting DC2 or Cooney.

How is that obviously, consciously, recruiting for the zone (for years and years)?

 

[Jack Hall]

I thought we were talking about the defense. We weren't horrible because Flynn was an explosive offensive player. And that is the point. As recently as 2009 we had players like Flynn, Devendorf and Harris - all of whom were recruited with no regard to the zone.

And it really hasn't stopped because the zone D had no influence on recruiting DC2 or Cooney.

How is that obviously, consciously, recruiting for the zone (for years and years)?

You mention two guys out of 11 on this team and I would say Trevor fits JBs system very nicely. But I agree w you, JB and Hop prob don't think about the only defense we play when they recruit. That's probably one of the major ways JB became a HOFer!

 

[TinyManInside]

How has this been done? I can see that there would be mutual appeal to long athletic wings.

I still think overall talent rules. DC2, Ennis, and Cooney do not fit a zone D concept.

I think the staff would be thrilled to bring in Briscoe. The zone would be a secondary consideration.

Imagine that, after one of our best defensive efforts a member of the staff claims they recruit for the zone. Bet you didn't hear that line after they landed Flynn though.

We were watching James Southerland play in a summer camp when this topic came up. Flynn's name came up and the staff member I was talking to said that Scoop was more suited for the zone than Flynn but Johnny was so athletically talented that they went all out to grab him even though he wasn't a prototypical SU zone guard.

As I mentioned above, you don't turn down obvious superior talent when you have an opportunity.

It's not like SU goes to a camp and picks the players they want and every kid they want commits, and they have a 100% success rate. You have to build your recruiting around the players that are most likely to consider committing to your school. But the staff absolutely takes into account a kid's potential in the zone when they do talent evaluations. If two players have similar skill sets but one is more suited for the zone, they will go harder for the kid who is more suited for the zone.

 

[PoppyHart]

Can anyone imagine the uproar after the first game Hop loses where he doesn't play 100% zone?

 

[Flacusian]

I sure liked the way Villanova pressed Kansas last Friday night when Kansas was bringing the ball up. I thought it really helped them in the win. I am concerned how our players will do when they face Villanova's press.

And rightly so, however the team did exceptionally well when they played the pressure press of Pitino lite. I would think that we will do well vs. Nova as well. One of the brightest spots of this early season is the manner in which this team has taken care of the ball. Ennis may end up having the best turnover/ assist ratio of all time at Cuse.

 

[longtimefan]

Can anyone imagine the uproar after the first game Hop loses where he doesn't play 100% zone?

Don't worry. If Hop goes m2m, we will never lose a game. I learned that from Igor.