How did it get to this point with forwards?

[orangecuse]

S-A-N-C-T-I-O-N-S!

Nuff said.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I suggest that throughout his career, JB's best teams have been forward-oriented. And over the years, we've had some great forwards who've brought elite versatility / scoring.

This year, we're starting two completely unproven, inexperienced forwards who both look lost. Bell had ZERO rebounds or assists. Benny wasn't much better.

I'm pulling for Benny to bounce back, but I fear that if he hasn't put things together [even to some degree] by this point, when will he? We need him to be better -- he's such a likeable kid, really pulling for him to right the ship.

But I'm not sure that there are any other candidates on the roster to step in and produce. Discouraging turn of events at forward, in an otherwise solid debut game.

JB didn’t want to bring in a transfer forward, and that’s on him. But we have five options at forward—Benny, Maliq, Bell, Taylor and even Copeland. They’re all very young—four freshman and one sophomore. 2-3 of them will figure it out and JB will go with those guys later in the season. We don’t need them to be great, just solid. We need rebounding, scoring around the basket, and solid perimeter and interior defense from the PF forward spot. We need perimeter shooting, rebounding and solid defense from the small forward spot. We all knew Bell was gonna have issues adjusting to playing all facets of the game—rebounding, defense and hustle plays—and JB alluded to that last night in the presser. I think JB is giving Bell a real chance to get his act together in those areas because he sees him as the second best shooter on the team. Hopefully the kid will figure it out—and Taylor will be able to spell him when he’s not playing well. This is the reason why I wish we still had Woody Newton and he’d been able to spend last year developing. But I think we’ll find 2-3 guys who will be solid at forward.

 

[AlaskaSU]

The team runs through Edwards, Mintz, and Girard. The two forwards really just need to play defense, rebound, and not be a liability.
With that said I think Brown should play over Benny. He can play defense and rebound. Bell and Benny can split the other forward spot.

The obvious:
Brown at the 4.
Benny to the bench
Quadir 6th man
Torrence is too good to not start
Carey is a redshirt.

 

[SUMinistry]

Just watched the game this morning. Thought Brown looked great for what he is. Will hustle, rebound, block shots, be in the right spot most of the time - but may run into some trouble in ACC this year against more talented opponents. Excited for his future though. As for Williams, Bell and Taylor, also excited for their future. I think all will have solid games throughout this year; however, we won't be able to rely on any of them in terms of consistently putting up numbers. If all give us a goose egg in a given game, we will probably be in trouble.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Just watched the game this morning. Thought Brown looked great for what he is. Will hustle, rebound, block shots, be in the right spot most of the time - but may run into some trouble in ACC this year against more talented opponents. Excited for his future though. As for Williams, Bell and Taylor, also excited for their future. I think all will have solid games throughout this year; however, we won't be able to rely on any of them in terms of consistently putting up numbers. If all give us a goose egg in a given game, we will probably be in trouble.

I really, really, did I mention really(?), like Malik Brown.
His game screams Wendell Alexis to me. Understated, quietly athletic, efficient, and with a good game demeanor- like he just understands and knows how to play.
I still believe you gotta give Benny every opportunity & I think at some point, he’ll start paying dividends, albeit inconsistent ones. A breakout every other game would be great. We’ll see how he looks next time out.

 

[sweetpea]

I really, really, did I mention really(?), like Malik Brown.
His game screams Wendell Alexis to me. Understated, quietly athletic, efficient, and a good game demeanor- like he just understands and knows how to play.
I still believe you gotta give Benny every opportunity & I think at some point, he’ll start payment dividends, albeit inconsistent ones. A breakout every other game would be great. We’ll see how he looks next time out.

Great Wendell comparison from way back. Wendell and Raf. I'd imagine Raf would have lit it up from 3 these days.

 

[phil77]

Easy answer --- Recruiting and Player Development

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I can't remember when we last had a team with so many question marks.

What i'm trying to do now is recognize what each player is supposed to be able to do well.

Taylor—not sure where all the enthusiasm is coming from so far. You folks seem to like his body quite a bit—not that there's anything wrong with that. But, he was billed as a shooter, and we're not seeing good shooting. The form is there, but the results not so much. Other skills? I don't see him putting the ball on the deck and driving—handle skills and quickness aren't there. So, how did Buddy score? Subtle, shifty moves, and an advanced skillset. Taylor is more physical, and he even moved around well, when i noticed him running around picks to free himself. But, he wasn't looked at, and didn't get a pass, and then i didn't notice that anymore. JB has to scheme for him, but we're at a point where there are so many questions and games and egos that need to be built and developed that there isn't a lot of time for consistent efforts to develop any one player. Feels to me like some decisions need to be made toward concentrating on a few, rather than all, because there are diminished returns when the effort is so diffused.

Chris Bell—plays weak. I don't remember a guy who seemed both so slight and uninvolved. And as for his athleticism... I thought he won the dunk contest(?) but he had a breakaway opportunity and didn't separate from the trailing defender, nor elevate/explode to the rim. That was surprising/disappointing. He has a shot that might well be effective in time, but at this point, it just isn't. He splashed that one yesterday that looked smooth, but in just about every other attempt, it looks like a quick flick, and he doesn't do anything to get/create those opportunities nor make them easier once he does get a pass. No feints, no pumps, no jabsteps. It's just a catch and release situation. Not someone who creates offense for himself or anyone else.

Someone compared Maliq Brown to Carmelo, minus the jumper. But, Carmelo wasn't just a good shooter. He was pretty masterful as a freshman collegian at the triple-threat. With every possession, he gathered and in control to either beat someone with a shot, a drive, or a pass. And that's what made him difficult to defend. Brown is solid, and you get a sense he's not going to do anything wrong. But, he's not a threat. But, that's fine. We need reliable depth and maybe he deserves more of an opportunity than Benny, even now.

I will probably not say a negative word about Joe this year. I think he will need to play 35+ minutes, and i have no problem with that—unless all of a sudden Bell and Taylor become Ray Allen.

Jesse was good. Encouraging to see the array of ways in which he can be effective. And that oop where the pass was almost a line drive and led him from so far away—that was spectacular.

Judah—i likened him to an unpolished Kenny Anderson. Not sure if it's the moves or the body. But, Kenny seemed smooth and in control. Judah seems a bit more herky-jerky and out of control. And when he does make shots, they're not 'clean.' He seems to pour them in, where there's a lot of rim and a 'swirl' involved. I think he'll be better and more consistent with strength, but it's more about his maturation that i think will lead to better results. Just recognizing what can and can't be done. Judgment. But, he's the one spark on the offense—and that's valuable. I don't see that same ceiling with Symir, although i'm pretty content with that rotation/depth—at least relative to where we are as a team.

Benny—he's a conundrum. I get the sense that JB has a commitment there. And it's not so simple as seeing that maybe Brown is more effective on a statistical basis or whatever. I still believe in Benny's upside, but not that we'll see what we expected this year. I think it's largely mental, and i can identify with that. Unfortunately, having lived a long time with mental 'limiters,' it's hard to expect them to just be instantly fixed. Basically, sometimes 1+2 doesn't equal 3. It may not be a matter of learning something or understanding something. Sometimes the wires just aren't hooked up right. He'll do some really good things and have a few really good games, and we'll get excited and then... back to the inexplicable.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Just watched the game this morning. Thought Brown looked great for what he is. Will hustle, rebound, block shots, be in the right spot most of the time - but may run into some trouble in ACC this year against more talented opponents. Excited for his future though. As for Williams, Bell and Taylor, also excited for their future. I think all will have solid games throughout this year; however, we won't be able to rely on any of them in terms of consistently putting up numbers. If all give us a goose egg in a given game, we will probably be in trouble.

I think Brown is just a dude who knows how to play basketball. Nothing rushed or crazy, and no plays that make you jump out of your seat. But he could put up 8 & 5 any game and you would wonder when he did that.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Chris Bell—plays weak. I don't remember a guy who seemed both so slight and uninvolved. And as for his athleticism... I thought he won the dunk contest(?) but he had a breakaway opportunity and didn't separate from the trailing defender, nor elevate/explode to the rim. That was surprising/disappointing.

Think you are making too much out of that play with Bell. Looked like he was just keeping an eye on the defender and knew he had enough separation where did not need to turn on the jets completely. Finished easily with the left hand. Not right to make a judgement on his athletic ability based on that play. Also that breakout play was after he had a nice steal.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Think you are making too much out of that play with Bell. Looked like he was just keeping an eye on the defender and knew he had enough separation where did not need to turn on the jets completely. Finished easily with the left hand. Not right to make a judgement on his athletic ability based on that play. Also that breakout play was after he had a nice steal.

It wasn't about the result. It was just an observation of how he moved and his (perceived) intent.
Also, i'm not really a fan of the 'keeping an eye on the defender' thing. That, too often, is the rationale with players who just can't 'explode' for the easier dunk, and are looking for contact. We've had too much of that in recent years. And maybe i still have a bunch of Joe G3 layup attempts from two years ago in my head. Think back to Stevie Thompson. If he hedged and picked off a pass and had a free route to the rim, he wasn't slowing down and expecting to do a dipsy-doo to try to finish the play.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Not sure what you saw out of him. He was largely invisible. It’s hard to be the energy guy when you have less foot speed than Buddy.

I didn’t see much from Taylor other than he looks to be pretty strong - but I saw nothing that tells me he is dirt slow - Buddy was very slow side to side - like as slow as Joe is

 

[OrangeDW]

Not sure what you saw out of him. He was largely invisible. It’s hard to be the energy guy when you have less foot speed than Buddy.

Taylor’s story will come down to how good of a shooter he is, IMO.

He’s kinda got that muscly stiffness to him. Knows how to play, and is strong, but not a smooth or long or bouncy or quick guy.

Can he shoot? Probably lots of first game jitters yesterday.

 

[CardiacCuse]

FYI Quincy Geurrier just put up 7pts 7 rebs for oregon...against some scrub team...

wonder if he's glad he left...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It wasn't about the result. It was just an observation of how he moved and his (perceived) intent.
Also, i'm not really a fan of the 'keeping an eye on the defender' thing. That, too often, is the rationale with players who just can't 'explode' for the easier dunk, and are looking for contact. We've had too much of that in recent years. And maybe i still have a bunch of Joe G3 layup attempts from two years ago in my head. Think back to Stevie Thompson. If he hedged and picked off a pass and had a free route to the rim, he wasn't slowing down and expecting to do a dipsy-doo to try to finish the play.

I thought he made a really nice play. I was surprised how smoothly he transitioned to his left and got his body in position.

 

[UpstateSM]

Have the Georgetown game on a tv right now. Akok Akok would have been an awesome starting four and backup five here.

I understand why we didn’t make an attempt but damn

 

[Cusefan0307]

JB made a decision not to go hard at keeping Swider or go after another Forward in the Portal. This should be expected. Hopefully a couple of the young guys emerge. That‘s all we can root for at this point.

 

[OrangeDW]

JB made a decision not to go hard at keeping Swider or go after another Forward in the Portal. This should be expected. Hopefully a couple of the young guys emerge. That‘s all we can root for at this point.

I think it goes back a year before when 4 forwards left the program and 2 one year rentals were brought in.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think it goes back a year before when 4 forwards left the program.

He’s made a lot of questionable roster decisions/lack of recruiting engagement, but I was specifically speaking to this past offseason.

 

[OrangeDW]

He’s made a lot of bad roster decisions/lack of engagement, but I was specifically speaking to this past offseason.

Gotcha. I bring up two years ago, because the balance of everything was thrown off.

Could’ve went for a transfer, but would be nice to have another veteran forward that’s been in the program.

Hope I said it in an acceptable way this time. I keep getting deleted.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Gotcha. I bring up two years ago, because the balance of everything was thrown off.

Could’ve went for a transfer, but would be nice to have another veteran forward that’s been in the program.

Hope I said it in an acceptable way this time. I keep getting deleted.

Hah well you didn’t offend me.

 

[OrangeDW]

FYI Quincy Geurrier just put up 7pts 7 rebs for oregon...against some scrub team...

wonder if he's glad he left...

Are midseason transfers allowed yet?

 

[UpstateSM]

JB made a decision not to go hard at keeping Swider or go after another Forward in the Portal. This should be expected. Hopefully a couple of the young guys emerge. That‘s all we can root for at this point.

I still don’t necessarily agree with it but after watching the young guys play a couple times, I can see the vision JB has with this group.

He better find a way to keep the freshmen happy though because if more than one of them are gone next year we just wasted a season not using the portal to raise our ceiling.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I thought he made a really nice play. I was surprised how smoothly he transitioned to his left and got his body in position.

Yeah, not saying it wasn't a good play.
Just saying that he did not look like the kind of explosive athlete that should be beating the rest of our guys in a dunk contest. I was surprised, that's all, and i don't think it bodes well for an ACC career. I've been wrong before.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I was expecting worse than what I saw last night from this group.

And I wasn't expecting Benny to be that bad.

I think we will be OK with the 3 freshmen center and guard are real strengths.