How do we feel about the state of the program now?

[Townie72]

I am always baffled by threads like this and the posts that follow the initial one.

I am unsure whether the point is to give an honest opinion or to give what you hope happens. Some seem to feel that anything they view is negative will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's somehow disloyal to say that the program will likely wallow in the middle of the ACC pack for a long time.

I get that that's a bad thing given the shallow roots of the fan support among the locals.

 

[rosconey]

Well, I can tell you that if Shafer is fired, it won't just be players in this current recruiting class who we might lose. You risk losing some of the class of '15 signees as transfer possibilities, as well. I can tell you for a fact that at least a few of them would seriously look into transferring if Shafer leaves (and no, obviously I'm not going to name names).

well goodby to them- i want kids who are su kids not hcss kids

cant keep a bad coach to keep a class -

the best thing for a program is to have a good staff-not a good class

we have all seen other schools hire head coach's who are known as recruiters -they load up on stars- and do nothing on the field for 4 years and get canned and go back to being assistants

 

[jekelish]

well goodby to them- i want kids who are su kids not hcss kids

cant keep a bad coach to keep a class -

the best thing for a program is to have a good staff-not a good class

The best thing for a program is to have good players, in my opinion. You can have the best coach in the world but if you don't have players athletic enough and talented enough to compete, what the hell kind of results are you going to get?

 

[rosconey]

The best thing for a program is to have good players, in my opinion. You can have the best coach in the world but if you don't have players athletic enough and talented enough to compete, what the hell kind of results are you going to get?

ummmmmmmmmmm- a good coach is defined by being a winner- players play for winners-look what beemer did at vt- not like its a hub of life out there

 

[bcubs9497]

well goodby to them- i want kids who are su kids not hcss kids

cant keep a bad coach to keep a class -

the best thing for a program is to have a good staff-not a good class

we have all seen other schools hire head coach's who are known as recruiters -they load up on stars- and do nothing on the field for 4 years and get canned and go back to being assistants

Um, yeah.

Can't say anything more, or I'd get into trouble...

 

[javadoc]

Keep Calm and Cheer On.

 

[Crusty]

I am always baffled by threads like this and the posts that follow the initial one.

I am unsure whether the point is to give an honest opinion or to give what you hope happens. Some seem to feel that anything they view is negative will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's somehow disloyal to say that the program will likely wallow in the middle of the ACC pack for a long time.

I get that that's a bad thing given the shallow roots of the fan support among the locals.

I was looking for opinions on the state of the program not hopes and dreams as everyone's hopes and dreams are similar.

 

[Pyle]

you guys have been talking talent upgrade since the great guru-
kids on paper are nothing like kids on the field- staffs develop players no matter how many stars- jones nassib bromley ect ect

you cant keep a bad staff that cant develop players to keep high recruiting class's

either this staff shows it has improved by putting up points on offense and doesnt fall apart on defense-or the new ad will do what gross did-just hope he is better at doing it

Ahhhh yes the stars vs develop debate. Tell you what, in 2+ decades of following this team I have figured out the answer to this debate...ready?.....it's pretty mind blowing...here it is....

YOU NEED BOTH TALENT AND COACHING

There it is folks. Grob got talent, couldn't coach it, Marrone coached it up but couldn't recruit people with enough talent to coach up, hence the reason there is no Delone Carter, Doug Hogue, Ryan Nassib, Justin Pugh's, etc on this roster. There is no reason Hunt should not have a capable backup at this point. There is no reason our best chance at a 2016 draft pick is Broyld who hasn't spent more than 1 year in a position. Where are the WR's? If it was all development then Marrone would have left us some WR's. Face it, Lemon and Sales had talent and it got developed properly. That is how you build, it's not one or the other, it's both.

 

[rrlbees]

I get that that's a bad thing given the shallow roots of the fan support among the locals.

Those roots are far longer and run much deeper than any other segment of the fan base tree.

 

[baggerbob]

well goodby to them- i want kids who are su kids not hcss kids

cant keep a bad coach to keep a class -

the best thing for a program is to have a good staff-not a good class

we have all seen other schools hire head coach's who are known as recruiters -they load up on stars- and do nothing on the field for 4 years and get canned and go back to being assistants

Why don't you take a timeout until we get a few games into this season? Your constant talk of the past has nothing to do with the coming season. We all know what has happened in the past, and we don't need you to continue harping on it.

 

[Townie72]

Those roots are far longer and run much deeper than any other segment of the fan base tree.

And I would agree with that.

But that has its limits.

In my experience, strong fan bases are built in Up" periods.

The fans from the glory days the 1950's and 60's (The Schwartzwalder - Major Eastern Indies Period) are now 65+ at a minimum.

It's been a while since the late 1980's and 90's (The Dome - MAC Era)

Many of the locals who would have been big SU fans have found other pursuits.

 

[Townie72]

I was looking for opinions on the state of the program not hopes and dreams as everyone's hopes and dreams are similar.

What happen to the obvious answer to your question? "You are what your record says you are." Just look back over the record of the last ten years. That's what the state of the program is.

 

[Scooch]

How do I feel?

Pessimistic.

We're coming off a 13th consecutive season of play that has ranged from a high of marginally-above-average to a low of horrific.

There's no harm in hoping this is the year we break out of that, but odds are it's unlikely that happens.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

How do I feel?

Pessimistic.

We're coming off a 13th consecutive season of play that has ranged from a high of marginally-above-average to a low of horrific.

There's no harm in hoping this is the year we break out of that, but odds are it's unlikely that happens.

I want to be optimistic, but it's hard in an age of offense first football to be optimistic about a program that is so far behind on that side of the ball.

Washington can go a long way towards helping with that.

 

[qdawgg]

if our offense gets better, our defense will be a lot worse and that's ok. part of the reason our defense was good is that other teams could get a lead and focus entirely on not making back breaking mistakes

I wonder how many times you have to write this before it actually sinks in

 

[MartyCuse]

Good enough to renew my tickets... Good enough to look forward to the start of the year and tailgating... Nervous about our season... Optimistic about our schedule... and hooked on the recruiting board updates.

 

[xc84]

What happen to the obvious answer to your question? "You are what your record says you are." Just look back over the record of the last ten years. That's what the state of the program is.

I am ok with that but not just the last season. I tend to look at it in a moving average sort of way.

 

[TheCusian]

it's hard to do that. 14 teams accomplished that last year. those teams averaged 9.8 wins. in other words, 65% of top 40 defenses are below average on offense if you can be top 60 in both, that's only 24 teams. 9.6 wins if our offense gets better, our defense will be a lot worse and that's ok. part of the reason our defense was good is that other teams could get a lead and focus entirely on not making back breaking mistakes

Interesting. I'd take top 60 in both in a heartbeat.

 

[TheCusian]

still sad.

Well yeah. Sad indeed. But I think if we can grab a top 30 or so recruiting class and win half our games - the trajectory will begin to change. And expectations along with them.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

I am ok with that but not just the last season. I tend to look at it in a moving average sort of way.
View attachment 42045

This 5 year moving average is right on the money. We're on the upswing. Big season coming up. This season will live and die on OL play and Mr. Hunt. I'm cautiously optimistic we get to a bowl game and continue the upward trend.

 

[LAOrange]

All I know is the administration better have learned something from the Ray Rice debacle. There should be no minimum W-L bar this year. No way. It's about the class that's being put together right now. If Washington brings his buddies then we need to keep the staff intact AT LEAST until their sign their LOI and you don't fire coaches in Feb. There's more recruiting buzz right now than when Grob landed Lobdell(yes i know it didn't work out so well). What we can't afford is some knee-jerk reaction that blows up what might be our best class in a decade. That being said it became pretty obvious to most that Grob was over his head by year 3, Shafer can't drop to that level of ineptness or the class doesn't matter.

Shafer is not Robinson. Shafer is Ben Schwartzwalder.

 

[baggerbob]

And I would agree with that.

But that has its limits.

In my experience, strong fan bases are built in Up" periods.

The fans from the glory days the 1950's and 60's (The Schwartzwalder - Major Eastern Indies Period) are now 65+ at a minimum.

It's been a while since the late 1980's and 90's (The Dome - MAC Era)

Many of the locals who would have been big SU fans have found other pursuits.

I'm still here from the 50"s and 60's, and its great to have you back Townie, because even when I don't agree with you, your responses are reasonable.

 

[SUFan44]

I always get excited for Syracuse football. Heck, I'll talk Syracuse anything with anyone at any time. Doesn't matter, I'm always pessimistically optimistic (if that makes sense).

Offense should be improved. Not tough to do. But Hunt needs to be used properly to maximize his skill set - a skill set that did win games against quality teams two years ago.

I think WR should be improved, if for no other reason than most everyone should be healthy (knock on wood). RB & OL TBD. Like some pieces but unproven.

Defensively, a ton is lost. But some younger kids have an opportunity to step in and fill roles. I think DL will be a strength - really hoping for a breakout season from Ron Thompson. If he stays at DE, he should cause havoc. DT, if healthy, should also be a strength. LB will benefit from the DL being a strength. Have athletes in those spots that can make plays.

Secondary really concerns me. Reddish is a huge loss. Not a huge fan of Eskridge the last few years - whiffed on too many tackles and didn't take great angles. But he is a loss for sure as well. Replacing those two, and Whigham stepping up are keys in my opinion.

Overall, I'd say it would be foolish for anyone to believe that a head coaching and coaching staff change, lack of big recruiting wins during the Marrone era and incompetent offensive coordinator'ing wouldn't have an effect on W/L. I think we are on our way to hopefully solving all three of these factors - especially with the addition of the IPF and the ACC revenue starting to trickle in.

I'm bullish on the program right now, but ask me in December and I could have an entirely different answer!

 

[CTMick]

The best thing for a program is to have good players, in my opinion. You can have the best coach in the world but if you don't have players athletic enough and talented enough to compete, what the hell kind of results are you going to get?

I would say this is true but there are exceptions. Look at Al Golden, dude has talent coming out of his ears and should be competing for the top spot. Where HCSS is exactly on this barometer, we will have a better idea after this season and "His" recruits are the primary players.

 

[Townie72]

I'm still here from the 50"s and 60's, and its great to have you back Townie, because even when I don't agree with you, your responses are reasonable.

Thanks, Bob

Those who didn't see the Ben era, really missed something.

One of my favorite games was a game at Archbold against PSU that we lost. It was 1967. I may be wrong on this but I think PSU had Franco Harris and Lydell Mitchell at the RBs and Ted Kwalick was the TE. SU had Little and Csonka at the RBs and Cassatta (CFL) at QB. We lost 14-13 on a crisp but sunny day. I sat in the temporary stands on the field on the Gym end. The hitting and the talent level were incredible.